Oxbow6 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 I don't think I've ever seen a job listing that tells you how to do a job. You must be self employed or have a long standing career in the fast food industry................... 2 Quote
Matt Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Do you hang out with a bunch of other people that don't donate or just you? All hat, no cattle. Faison has shown he is willing to pay what is necessary when hiring new coaches, I don't see why he would change that if there was a candidate that fit the bill. If USD wanted Smith, that is what they were going to have to pay. At this point in his career, I don't think he was going to take much of a pay cut even if it was to get head coaching experience. He took a $20k pay cut for the job according to Izzo last night. That difference represents over 10% of his total salary. If being a head coach isn't enough of a draw to take that pay cut, is there another factor we don't know about? Quote
jdub27 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 He took a $20k pay cut for the job according to Izzo last night. That difference represents over 10% of his total salary. If being a head coach isn't enough of a draw to take that pay cut, is there another factor we don't know about? On my original post I forgot Ben Johnson went to coach at Minnesota and Smith moved up a rung on Miles' staff this season. His salary in the 2012-13 season was $160K, that is what I was going off of. I think Smith wanted to be a head coach and I think he wanted to do it for one of the Dakota schools, both reasons he'd take a slight pay cut or leave for similar money. My point was more that if USD really wanted him, they were going to have to give him close to what he was making, which they did, he wasn't going to leave for what they were paying the previous coaches: Boots made $126K his last season and Joey James got $90K last year as the interim. He wasn't going to leave for a number near either of those. Of note, I think that Smith is also now making more than the AD at USD is making. One other important thing is how the state of South Dakota handles contracts: They are on a year to year basis, so if Smith is a flop (don't see it happening), they aren't on the hook for any sort of buyout, they can just choose not to renew his contract. That makes a huge difference when giving out salaries like that. Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 On my original post I forgot Ben Johnson went to coach at Minnesota and Smith moved up a rung on Miles' staff this season. His salary in the 2012-13 season was $160K, that is what I was going off of. I think Smith wanted to be a head coach and I think he wanted to do it for one of the Dakota schools, both reasons he'd take a slight pay cut or leave for similar money. My point was more that if USD really wanted him, they were going to have to give him close to what he was making, which they did, he wasn't going to leave for what they were paying the previous coaches: Boots made $126K his last season and Joey James got $90K last year as the interim. He wasn't going to leave for a number near either of those. Of note, I think that Smith is also now making more than the AD at USD is making. One other important thing is how the state of South Dakota handles contracts: They are on a year to year basis, so if Smith is a flop (don't see it happening), they aren't on the hook for any sort of buyout, they can just choose not to renew his contract. That makes a huge difference when giving out salaries like that. This brings up a point I've been wondering about. If USD could sign Smith under these circumstances, does it call into question whether some of the lengthy contract extensions Faison has handed out in recent years were really necessary? I know he was quoted in a Herald article last year saying something to the effect that he was doing this partly as a trade-off for the comparatively low salaries some of the UND coaches have had. But from the school's perspective that doesn't seem like a very smart move. For one thing, I don't think any of the coaches who were relatively underpaid had shown they were worth a lot more, nor were any of them being offered other jobs, at least as far as we know. For another thing, even with a lengthy contract, if the coach succeeds, he/she can still move onto greener pastures, meaning the contract didn't do anything for the school (e.g. Lennon). But if the coach doesn't live up to expectations, the school is still on the hook (e.g. Mussman buyout). Frankly, unless the coach has had a pretty long history of success, I'm not sure I'd ever want to extend a contract more than two years into the future. There's more to lose than to gain IMO. 1 Quote
jdub27 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 This brings up a point I've been wondering about. If USD could sign Smith under these circumstances, does it call into question whether some of the lengthy contract extensions Faison has handed out in recent years were really necessary? I know he was quoted in a Herald article last year saying something to the effect that he was doing this partly as a trade-off for the comparatively low salaries some of the UND coaches have had. But from the school's perspective that doesn't seem like a very smart move. For one thing, I don't think any of the coaches who were relatively underpaid had shown they were worth a lot more, nor were any of them being offered other jobs, at least as far as we know. For another thing, even with a lengthy contract, if the coach succeeds, he/she can still move onto greener pastures, meaning the contract didn't do anything for the school (e.g. Lennon). But if the coach doesn't live up to expectations, the school is still on the hook (e.g. Mussman buyout). Frankly, unless the coach has had a pretty long history of success, I'm not sure I'd ever want to extend a contract more than two years into the future. There's more to lose than to gain IMO. I think its a trade-off. Easier for the coaches to recruit when they can tell the player and the family how they'll fit into their system and they can see that the coach will be there for the foreseeable future in theory, better for the school if they need to cut ties, but you are likely paying more up front because of the lack of a multiple years. I think the South Dakota schools are at a disadvantage in that sense being that they can't show what appears to be greater stability but I also think they can play it off as there is nothing they can do about it and I think both schools have a pretty decent history of keeping coaches around for the long-haul and not having a quick trigger on firing them. Don't think their fan base has as much fondness to continually put every coach on the hot seat either. If UND looked to do something similar, I could see how it could be flipped around as a negative by schools recruiting against UND, since they would be willfully only offering one year contracts as opposed to USD/SDSU who have no choice but to do that. One other interesting thing from Yankton's Press & Dakota's comments: Athletic director David Herbster said South Dakota’s policy of year-to-year contracts did play a role in the search process. He said “a quarter to a third” of the candidates were not interested because there was not the possibility of multi-year contracts. And if they were able to look past it, those candidates would have wanted up to $250,000. “That’s not realistic for us right now,” Herbster said. I think they got a great guy in Smith, but I think that his ties to the region helped lower what he was willing to take, especially now knowing that he was making $200K at Nebraska. Had he not been an option, its very possible the Yotes would have ended up with a lesser quality guy or spent even more money. Regardless, will be interesting to see what he does at USD, thinking he will do some good things there. Quote
Gus Chiggins Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Coaches either have "it" or they don't. Players show on the court whether their coach has "it". If the AD either doesn't want to see, or simply can't see whether his coach has "it" after this much time, then he is as incompetent and ineffective at his job as his coach is. Norwood Teague saw this identical situation at Minnesota and did something about it even though Tubby won a tourney game last year. Unfortunately, I believe this Craig Smith hiring at USD doesn't bode well for UND in the future for a variety of reasons, even though we don't play in the same conference. Quote
CMSioux Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 You must be self employed or have a long standing career in the fast food industry................... Uh no - a little higher - but please let's not get into degrading any job professions - it's kind of juvenile. Last job I had that told me what I had to do step by step was generations ago. If you have any kind of educated job at all they don't tell you how to do it, they set expectations and accountabilities and assume you have the intelligence. skill and education to achieve them. By the way can't we just agree that you and I will never agree on anything so everytime I post you don't have share your opposite opinion and insults? I'll put you on ignore and you can do the same for me. Quote
gfhockey Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Lmao Someone else comparing jobs? The root of it all is the same poster Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 If you have any kind of educated job at all they don't tell you how to do it, they set expectations and accountabilities and assume you have the intelligence. skill and education to achieve them. Which is exactly the point Irish was trying to make before you threw your 2 cents in.............. Quote
CMSioux Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Which is exactly the point Irish was trying to make before you threw your 2 cents in.............. Please have someone read my last paragraph to you. Have fun - spew your anger at me and others - share how you are always the smartest one in the room - I will be ignoring your posts - please do the same to mine. 1 Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Lmao Someone else comparing jobs? The root of it all is the same poster And who is this "same poster" that you speak of? Just curious. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Please have someone read my last paragraph to you. Have fun - spew your anger at me and others - share how you are always the smartest one in the room - I will be ignoring your posts - please do the same to mine. Please do. I won't ignore yours. I like a little laugh once in awhile. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Please have someone read my last paragraph to you. Have fun - spew your anger at me and others - share how you are always the smartest one in the room - I will be ignoring your posts - please do the same to mine. Hey, that's MY job around here! Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Hey, that's MY job around here! So is this now a job share? Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 So is this now a job share? ROFL, I guess so. I could use a partner in this very important endeavor! Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 With the Smith hire, I believe this now means both SD division I schools pay their basketball coach more than their football coach. I suspect this is the norm among FCS football playing schools. My guess is that UND and NDSU could move in this direction in the not-too-distant future, too. Quote
gfhockey Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Idk oxbow who is always arguing about jobs with posters Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 With the Smith hire, I believe this now means both SD division I schools pay their basketball coach more than their football coach. I suspect this is the norm among FCS football playing schools. My guess is that UND and NDSU could move in this direction in the not-too-distant future, too. If Gene Taylor even hinted at paying the MBB coach more than the FB coach, Bisonville would melt down with indignation. I just don't see that happening at FU. Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 If Gene Taylor even hinted at paying the MBB coach more than the FB coach, Bisonville would melt down with indignation. I just don't see that happening at FU. While they are in a little different situation given their football attendance, you can only pay an FCS football coach so much before it stops making financial sense, and I believe that number is around $300k to $350k. Basketball, on the other hand, can pay off pretty big if a conference can win a game or two in the tournament. That's how UNI pays Jake $500k, whereas Farley gets a little under $300k. If you look at UNI's overall budget, you'd never think they could afford to pay their coaches that much. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 While they are in a little different situation given their football attendance, you can only pay an FCS football coach so much before it stops making financial sense, and I believe that number is around $300k. Basketball, on the other hand, can pay off pretty big if a conference can win a game or two in the tournament. That's how UNI pays Jake $500k, whereas Farley gets a little under $300k. I hear you; I just think there will be a huge backlash from the FB boosters if that ever happens (or is even discussed). Quote
WeAreNorthDakota Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 I hear you; I just think there will be a huge backlash from the FB boosters if that ever happens (or is even discussed). I think they'd freak out initially but eventually get it. They got a taste of how much exposure D1 basketball can bring a school last weekend. In the last 3 years they've accomplished more than any other team at the FCS level ever has but if they would've found a way to beat SDSU, a spot in the Sweet Sixteen would've blown all the coverage their football team has garnered out of the water. Quote
PhillySioux Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Jones lost an assistant. http://www.goyotes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041414aaa.html Quote
jdub27 Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Jones lost an assistant. http://www.goyotes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041414aaa.html Was the recruiting coordinator and had some good ties in the Minneapolis area. Quote
nd1sufan Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Was the recruiting coordinator and had some good ties in the Minneapolis area. He's probably making just about as much as Jones is as HC at UND. I think UND needs to up the pay scale of the HC and assistants. Quote
nodak651 Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Unacceptable to lose a coach in a lateral move like this, assuming money is the reason he left. Quote
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