2017 Season

[UNDbeliever]

18 hours ago, Irish said:

This season, in my opinion, has exposed serious weaknesses in recruiting, team culture, and mostly in coaching adjustments.

Similar to someone else who rarely posts from a few days ago, I've been following this this blog for 5 years and appreciate the comments, insights and passion for UND football.  With that in mind, I agree that 2 of the weaknesses listed above have been exposed and need to be addressed right away:  recruiting and coaching adjustments.  I'm not going to waste anyone's time on the later because there have multiple threads regarding the need for certain coaches to be more innovative and create with the personnel they have.  However, I feel this coaching staff is missing significant opportunities in their recruiting efforts.

It has been stated that this coaching staff prefers to recruit young men from ND, MN and Canada because they are more acclimated to the weather conditions, represent the area and will be less apt to becoming homesick.  A lot of these guys come from small towns which play 8 or 9 man football.  They may be the studs of these conferences and earn end-of-season accolades (all-conf/all-state), but it's not the same level of competition as kids coming out of larger metropolitan areas where they all play standard 11 man ball.  There are many kids from these areas who regularly get overlooked in the evaluation process from Rivals or other groups, but play in way more competitive conferences where an all-conf/all-state nominations actually mean something.  Your best teams do not limit their recruiting efforts to a small geographical area.  In that sense, I think this current staff is somewhat stubborn to a fault with their thinking.

[geaux_sioux]

4 minutes ago, UNDbeliever said:

Similar to someone else who rarely posts from a few days ago, I've been following this this blog for 5 years and appreciate the comments, insights and passion for UND football.  With that in mind, I agree that 2 of the weaknesses listed above have been exposed and need to be addressed right away:  recruiting and coaching adjustments.  I'm not going to waste anyone's time on the later because there have multiple threads regarding the need for certain coaches to be more innovative and create with the personnel they have.  However, I feel this coaching staff is missing significant opportunities in their recruiting efforts.

It has been stated that this coaching staff prefers to recruit young men from ND, MN and Canada because they are more acclimated to the weather conditions, represent the area and will be less apt to becoming homesick.  A lot of these guys come from small towns which play 8 or 9 man football.  They may be the studs of these conferences and earn end-of-season accolades (all-conf/all-state), but it's not the same level of competition as kids coming out of larger metropolitan areas where they all play standard 11 man ball.  There are many kids from these areas who regularly get overlooked in the evaluation process from Rivals or other groups, but play in way more competitive conferences where an all-conf/all-state nominations actually mean something.  Your best teams do not limit their recruiting efforts to a small geographical area.  In that sense, I think this current staff is somewhat stubborn to a fault with their thinking.

Grady played 9 man and was our best OL as a true fr. We've had many before him who were really good players. NDSU has had a ton of success with 9 man players. It's not a kids fault if they are from a small town. They come in with more untapped potential than basically any other recruits. How many guys do we currently have on the roster that even played 9 man? Maybe 3? Finding 9 man diamonds in the rough is an asset to all programs. There are guys in the NFL who played at that level. I don't care where they come from or what level they played at, if they can play, they can play. 

Attrition is the issue right now. We've lost so many promising players at LB, OL, and in the secondary and it shows in our lack of depth. Our recruitment of QBs has been questionable to this point. We need to bring in one a year on scholarship. 

[fightingsioux4life]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

Grady played 9 man and was our best OL as a true fr. We've had many before him who were really good players. NDSU has had a ton of success with 9 man players. It's not a kids fault if they are from a small town. They come in with more untapped potential than basically any other recruits. How many guys do we currently have on the roster that even played 9 man? Maybe 3? Finding 9 man diamonds in the rough is an asset to all programs. There are guys in the NFL who played at that level. I don't care where they come from or what level they played at, if they can play, they can play.

There are schools in Montana that play 6 man FB. And somehow, Montana and Montana State do fine with those kids.

[UNDColorado]

2 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

There are schools in Montana that play 6 man FB. And somehow, Montana and Montana State do fine with those kids.

Exactly, there is also 8 man in Wisconsin (probably elsewhere too but I know Wisco for sure)

[UNDbeliever]

I agree that attrition has hurt us at key positions, particularly at LB and in our secondary, and no doubt if you can play it doesn't matter how big your town is.  However, there is stronger competition and players who don't get ranked by Rivals as blue-chippers in larger metropolitan areas that may fall down to D1-AA compared to the smaller schools.  Sure, you can fill your roster with both, but look at who's the majority of your starters.  I'm not trying to slight anyone from ND or small towns, but recruiting could be more expansive in my opinion.

[geaux_sioux]

20 minutes ago, UNDbeliever said:

I agree that attrition has hurt us at key positions, particularly at LB and in our secondary, and no doubt if you can play it doesn't matter how big your town is.  However, there is stronger competition and players who don't get ranked by Rivals as blue-chippers in larger metropolitan areas that may fall down to D1-AA compared to the smaller schools.  Sure, you can fill your roster with both, but look at who's the majority of your starters.  I'm not trying to slight anyone from ND or small towns, but recruiting could be more expansive in my opinion.

I don’t care where the players come from so long as they are good enough, fit the culture of the program, and stay around. Wisconsin and Illinois are great areas since they’re close and have loads of really good players. I’ve said before that I wouldn’t mind establishing a pipeline to Florida or California but we haven’t had great luck with those areas in the past.

[UND-1]

We need to branch out to get more skill guys.  The big boys can come from the small towns but the play-makers are lacking right now at WR, LB and CB, for example.

[shep]

But isn't the big fault on the O, the lack of a strong line? I know  they are young, but we need to hope they develop.

Plus DLine is not maintaining the opponent's Oline to allow the LB's to make tackles and we don't have a real good pass rush.

[Devils]

Did a quick count on the roster and saw 34 from MN, 16 ND, 15 WI, 7 IL, 7 CO, 4 Canada, 4 CA (I'm sure I miscounted by 1 or 2)...very few from 9 man schools that I saw.  It maybe would be nice to see a few more kids from NE and IA but it seems to be a pretty realistic roster composition.  Certainly good to try to get a few studs from outside the region but you need to focus on the kids who are likely to come and stay.  

[Midwestern Hawk]

4 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

I don’t care where the players come from so long as they are good enough, fit the culture of the program, and stay around. Wisconsin and Illinois are great areas since they’re close and have loads of really good players. I’ve said before that I wouldn’t mind establishing a pipeline to Florida or California but we haven’t had great luck with those areas in the past.

I agree with this.  Lots and lots of quality players in both states that stay under the radar.   Illinois 12.8 million and 6 D1 schools,  Wisconsin 5.8 million and 1 D1 school, Nebraska 1.9 million and 1 D1 school, Minnesota 5.5 million and 1 D1 school, Iowa 3.2 million and 3 D1 schools, Colorado  5.5 million and 3 D1 schools and North Dakota 758K and 2 D1 schools.

[UNDColorado]

21 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I agree with this.  Lots and lots of quality players in both states that stay under the radar.   Illinois 12.8 million and 6 D1 schools,  Wisconsin 5.8 million and 1 D1 school, Nebraska 1.9 million and 1 D1 school, Minnesota 5.5 million and 1 D1 school, Iowa 3.2 million and 3 D1 schools, North Dakota 758K and 2 D1 schools, Colorado  5.5 million an 3 D1 schools.

Four, but I get why you left out UNC 

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Four, but I get why you left out UNC 

The military academies are different, recruit nationally, but I get your point!

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 hours ago, Devils said:

Did a quick count on the roster and saw 34 from MN, 16 ND, 15 WI, 7 IL, 7 CO, 4 Canada, 4 CA (I'm sure I miscounted by 1 or 2)...very few from 9 man schools that I saw.  It maybe would be nice to see a few more kids from NE and IA but it seems to be a pretty realistic roster composition.  Certainly good to try to get a few studs from outside the region but you need to focus on the kids who are likely to come and stay.  

Offensive and defensive 2-deep this week consists of 15 from Minnesota, 6 from Wisconsin, 5 from Colorado, 3 from North Dakota, 3 from Illinois,  2 from Canada, 2 from California, 2 from Washington, and 1 from Florida, Nebraska, Louisiana, Indiana, Alabama and Sweden.

[UND-FB-FAN]

19 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Grady played 9 man and was our best OL as a true fr. We've had many before him who were really good players. NDSU has had a ton of success with 9 man players. It's not a kids fault if they are from a small town. They come in with more untapped potential than basically any other recruits. How many guys do we currently have on the roster that even played 9 man? Maybe 3? Finding 9 man diamonds in the rough is an asset to all programs. There are guys in the NFL who played at that level. I don't care where they come from or what level they played at, if they can play, they can play. 

Attrition is the issue right now. We've lost so many promising players at LB, OL, and in the secondary and it shows in our lack of depth. Our recruitment of QBs has been questionable to this point. We need to bring in one a year on scholarship. 

Attrition is an issue, but don't overlook the questionable potential of the recruits being recruited. Many are misses, unfortunately, by the staff; they aren't DI caliber. Yes, some may develop into good players after 2 to 3 years within the program, but UND certainly doesn't have the depth yet to be relying on that type of "project" recruit. Bubba needs to recruit more players that are ready to come in and compete. If such players were on the roster, the injury epidemic of this season wouldn't hurt as bad as it has. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

19 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

There are schools in Montana that play 6 man FB. And somehow, Montana and Montana State do fine with those kids.

Of late, Montana and Montana State doing "fine" is questionable ... 

They've been a bit underwhelming the last couple seasons. Now, relative to the UND football team this season, Montana and Montana State are doing "fine". 

Yes, yes, I know, Montana and Montana State have been spared by the injury Gods ....

[Oxbow6]

UND at Portland St..........................................................too bad FB teams but one team has to win this game.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Attrition is an issue, but don't overlook the questionable potential of the recruits being recruited. Many are misses, unfortunately, by the staff; they aren't DI caliber. Yes, some may develop into good players after 2 to 3 years within the program, but UND certainly doesn't have the depth yet to be relying on that type of "project" recruit. Bubba needs to recruit more players that are ready to come in and compete. If such players were on the roster, the injury epidemic of this season wouldn't hurt as bad as it has. 

UND is going to bring in very few players who are ready to play day 1, maybe a couple a year and even that is an exception, not the rule. Most recruits at this level are "project" recruits and if things are going right shouldn't be seeing the field until 2-3 years anyway. This year is obviously an anomaly where the kids that were still developing, putting on weight and maybe gaining a few reps a game were instead forced to play the entire game.

[UND-FB-FAN]

54 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND is going to bring in very few players who are ready to play day 1, maybe a couple a year and even that is an exception, not the rule. Most recruits at this level are "project" recruits and if things are going right shouldn't be seeing the field until 2-3 years anyway. This year is obviously an anomaly where the kids that were still developing, putting on weight and maybe gaining a few reps a game were instead forced to play the entire game.

This is the kind of attitude that will cost UND in the long run. Sure, it's difficult for UND to find very good recruits right out of high school, but it can be done. Look at the top FCS programs around the country. We need to strive for UND to do better, not justify a 2-6 record because we are loyal to a fault. 

[Siouxperman8]

55 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

UND is going to bring in very few players who are ready to play day 1, maybe a couple a year and even that is an exception, not the rule. Most recruits at this level are "project" recruits and if things are going right shouldn't be seeing the field until 2-3 years anyway. This year is obviously an anomaly where the kids that were still developing, putting on weight and maybe gaining a few reps a game were instead forced to play the entire game.

This is very true.  Our program doesn't have the status yet to be getting all of the players we want and therefore are bringing in kids that won't be ready day 1.  Currently we get a few that are ready and plan on the rest down the road. 

If we become a power we will get closer to that level but aren't at that point yet.  That is why losing starters hurts us so much right now while we are still early in Bubba's tenure and many of his recruits are RS Sophs and younger.

[UND-FB-FAN]

14 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

This is very true.  Our program doesn't have the status yet to be getting all of the players we want and therefore are bringing in kids that won't be ready day 1.  Currently we get a few that are ready and plan on the rest down the road. 

If we become a power we will get closer to that level but aren't at that point yet.  That is why losing starters hurts us so much right now while we are still early in Bubba's tenure and many of his recruits are RS Sophs and younger.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. A 2015 7-4 and 2016 9-3 consecutive season record should be enough to at least bring in some quality recruits that can be competitive backups in the Big Sky Conference. Very few RS sophomores are playing that are making a impact. I guess my expectations are too great for this program according to some. It's not unrealistic because there's more than enough standards around the country to prove otherwise. Just look 80 miles south. I understand that comparison will provoke many on this board, but it is from a success standpoint, not a jealousy or rivalry standpoint. For that matter, look at what EWU and James Madison are doing. 

Someone brought up the theory that UND should be inferior to NDSU because of city size. Well then, Northwestern should be a  better football program than Wisconsin. Or  the University of Minnesota should have a better football program than Ohio State. City size absolutely doesn't correlate with college football program success; its based on alumni support and the subsequent appropriate allocation to the football program. HPC phase II is such a must in this regard. 

[jdub27]

24 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

This is the kind of attitude that will cost UND in the long run. Sure, it's difficult for UND to find very good recruits right out of high school, but it can be done. Look at the top FCS programs around the country. We need to strive for UND to do better, not justify a 2-6 record because we are loyal to a fault. 

Take a look at the depth charts of those teams. You aren't going to see more than a handful of True/Red shirt freshman on the 2-deeps.

Having unrealistic expectations also can put a program into a tailspin because they are never met. Either I'm misunderstanding your expectations or they are completely out of whack. Programs at the FCS level don't bring in 10-12 kids who are ready to play at the top of the FCS level Day 1. If they were, they wouldn't be in the FCS. Kids like that are 3*+ kids, who go to bigger schools. FCS schools bring in lesser rated kids and take a couple years to turn them into 3*+ kids. Yes, there are going to be a handful that come in and contribute immediately. The majority of that is due to need with a handful sprinkled in that are just that good.

[BigGame]

Very few HS kids are physically ready for college football and trying to rely on JUCO and FBS dropdowns isn't a good formula for long team success either although it can be a quick fix or total bust.   In the past 10 years UND has brought in some transfers and JUCO players, how many have been key players and had an impact in a positive way on the football field.  Certainly we have had a few but it seems to me most don't end up helping much if at all.  

[Oxbow6]

The injuries to this year's team revealed this squad is very talent poor from a depth standpoint. To not see or understand that is pretty ignorant. 

[Siouxphan27]

I'm surprised our exciting, creative, effective offensive scheme hasn't brought in more blue chippers.  

[UNDColorado]

29 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

This is the kind of attitude that will cost UND in the long run. Sure, it's difficult for UND to find very good recruits right out of high school, but it can be done. Look at the top FCS programs around the country. We need to strive for UND to do better, not justify a 2-6 record because we are loyal to a fault. 

Step back from the ledge please.