UND to Summit/MVFC

[SiouxFan100]

5 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Obviously you want teams that are good at playoff time. That's the point.

Like winning your last nine games this year and your last 3 last year.

[Gothmog]

7 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

They didn't, so what is the relevancy?

UND was 7-1 last year when Studsrud started and finished games and 0-3 when he got injured or didn't play. On top of that, they were without their All-American safety for a few of those games. That didn't seem to matter to the committee.

The relevancy is that simply comparing won-loss records will lead to lesser teams that ran up better records against weak opponents qualifying, or getting higher seeds, than better teams with lesser records against better opponents. It's not about counting "moral victories," it's about finding an unbiased way to compare records across widely varying schedules.  

BTW - I never said anything about UND's 2015 record.

 

[SWSiouxMN]

As much as I have enjoyed the bi-weekly MVFC/Summit vs Big Sky circle jerk..... 

With all the information floating around, how soon does an actual decision on this be made.  I would think rather soon right?

[jdub27]

6 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

The relevancy is that simply comparing won-loss records will lead to lesser teams that ran up better records against weak opponents qualifying, or getting higher seeds, than better teams with lesser records against better opponents. It's not about counting "moral victories," it's about finding an unbiased way to compare records across widely varying schedules.  

Sagarin doesn't take injuries into account and UNI had nothing similar to what your scenario was. How is it relevant to Sagarin being flawed by giving out moral victories to UNI, ranking them 5th even though they have 6 FCS losses? I'm not saying that there isn't some merit in the different ranking systems, I'm just simply amazed that the MVFC bros can't admit that there are some big flaws with it and it isn't the be all end all they keep claiming. UNI may very well better than a few teams in the field, but they also lost to multiple teams that didn't make the playoffs. Simple solution: Win the games on your schedule.

[UND-1]

Just so everyone is clear: UNI lost all six games due to self-inflicted mistakes.  They had all of them won.

“Too many missed opportunities,” Farley said.  We had our opportunity in (non-conference) games against Eastern Washington and Montana. I could go through about every one of these games. We had them, but we did not finish, whether it was self-inflicted wounds or whatever it was.”

[Gothmog]

8 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Like winning your last nine games this year and your last 3 last year.

Again, it depends on what teams you played. Nine wins in a row is always impressive. Nevertheless, one win over a ranked team isn't very impressive.

 

[UND-1]

Just now, Gothmog said:

Again, it depends on what teams you played. Nine wins in a row is always impressive. Nevertheless, one win over a ranked team isn't very impressive.

 

Weber isn't ranked?  Could have swore I saw them in my bracket. 

[Gothmog]

6 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Sagarin doesn't take injuries into account and UNI had nothing similar to what your scenario was. How is it relevant to Sagarin being flawed by giving out moral victories to UNI, ranking them 5th even though they have 6 FCS losses? I'm not saying that there isn't some merit in the different ranking systems, I'm just simply amazed that the MVFC bros can't admit that there are some big flaws with it and it isn't the be all end all they keep claiming. UNI may very well better than a few teams in the field, but they also lost to multiple teams that didn't make the playoffs. Simple solution: Win the games on your schedule.

 

No, it doesn't, but the point was that your record doesn't always say much about you.

BTW - Sagarin is not about rewarding anyone for winning games. It's about finding an unbiased way of rating teams across varying schedules. IMO, people have a hard time with the idea that ratings are not really about "rewarding" teams.

 

 

[Siouxperfan7]

MVFC has a one really good team (NDSU), 2 good teams (SDSU, Youngstown St), one OK team that was just good enough to make the playoffs (Illinois St), and a whole bunch of average to crappy teams.

Big Sky has one really good team (Eastern Washington), 2 good teams (UND, Cal Poly), one Ok team that was good enough to make the playoffs (Weber St), and a whole bunch of average to crappy teams. 

 

[UNDMOORHEAD]

39 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

OK, let's say that a team had a incredible string of injuries to start the year and ran up an 0-6 record to start the year. But, when those players came back in week 7 they turned things around and finished 5-6, including wins against several ranked teams. What does their 5-6 record say about them? 

That they lack depth. NDSU was still able to make it to the national championship game without Wentz. Most fans on here would acknowledge that although we are getting better there's still room for improvement. Depth is very important in all sports and if one player makes or breaks your year you may not be that good yet.

[homer]

8 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

 

No, it doesn't, but the point was that your record doesn't always say much about you.

BTW - Sagarin is not about rewarding anyone for winning games. It's about finding an unbiased way of rating teams across varying schedules. IMO, people have a hard time with the idea that ratings are not really about "rewarding" teams.

 

 

With only 3 non conference games it is very hard to get a good comparison of varying schedules.  

What I don't know about Saragin is how the original rankings are calculated?   Who put UNI #2 to start the year and than let the computers take over?

[Gothmog]

7 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

That they lack depth. NDSU was still able to make it to the national championship game without Wentz. Most fans on here would acknowledge that although we are getting better there's still room for improvement. Depth is very important in all sports and if one player makes or breaks your year you may not be that good yet.

The question is constructed so that depth is irrelevant. An "incredible" string of injuries could overwhelm any possible amount of depth.

The point is that a team's record doesn't always say much about that team's likely success in the playoffs. 

[UNDBIZ]

2 hours ago, Gothmog said:

They trailed by 3 points in the 4th quarter. Sometimes close games get out of hand at the end. 

That seems to be a common problem for WIU.

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

The question is constructed so that depth is irrelevant. An "incredible" string of injuries could overwhelm any possible amount of depth.

The point is that a team's record doesn't always say much about that team's likely success in the playoffs. 

But a flawed computer ranking, that doesn't factor in the current health of the team, does?

[Gothmog]

7 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

That seems to be a common problem for WIU.

UND is not at WIU's level as an FCS football school quite yet. Win a few playoff games before criticizing teams that have.

[UNDBIZ]

Anyone else think it's weird that all we've ever heard from the bizun bros during our D1 transition is there's no such thing as a moral victory, but then they put on their MVFC bro hats and are trying to tell us a 5-6 team is really good because they were close in their 6 FCS losses?

[UND-1]

5 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

UND is not at WIU's level as an FCS football school quite yet. Win a few playoff games before criticizing teams that have.

Yah, the Leathernecks are the gold standard of FCS football.  

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

UND is not at WIU's level as an FCS football school quite yet. Win a few playoff games before criticizing teams that have.

LOL.  I'll criticize whoever deserves be criticized.  WIU was a lock for the playoffs and then collapsed against a hapless SIU team.  I actually used to think you were one of the more reasonable bizun bros here, but you just can't put down the shovel right now.

[Gothmog]

2 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Yah, the Leathernecks are the gold standard of FCS football.  

No, they're not. But neither is UND. And, of course, we all know what team is the gold standard of FCS.

[Gothmog]

7 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

LOL.  I'll criticize whoever deserves be criticized.  WIU was a lock for the playoffs and then collapsed against a hapless SIU team.  I actually used to think you were one of the more reasonable bizun bros here, but you just can't put down the shovel right now.

Then expect criticism back.

[UNDMOORHEAD]

28 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

The question is constructed so that depth is irrelevant. An "incredible" string of injuries could overwhelm any possible amount of depth.

The point is that a team's record doesn't always say much about that team's likely success in the playoffs. 

So a team should be ranked on how good they would have possibly been in a world without injuries. 

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, Gothmog said:

Then expect criticism back.

If you've actually watched a UND game this year, go ahead and criticize.  UND's football team this year obviously wasn't perfect.  Say things like, "UND's O line has struggled against quality teams this year; UND's wide receivers are inexperienced; UND may lead the country in interceptions, but they're still susceptible to the long ball."  Don't come on here and say UND sucks because some flawed computer ranking system says so.

[jacksfan29]

3 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

We beat 2 teams who are in the playoffs.  How many did ISUr beat?  Or SDSU, for that matter.

SDSU beat 2. One is the #1 seed who we beat on the road and the other was rated just outside the top 10 all year. We laid an egg against Cal Poly and it is hard as hell to get through the MVFC without a loss. But hey, your killer schedule has been noted. Where did USD finish in the MVFC? Just about where UND would have finished.

This is why I really wanted UND to be in the same POD as SDSU and NDSU. That said, I've heard Richmond may be getting their #2 QB back. If that happens I'm not sure UND gets a trip to Cheney.

[SiouxFan100]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

If you've actually watched a UND game this year, go ahead and criticize.  UND's football team this year obviously wasn't perfect.  Say things like, "UND's O line has struggled against quality teams this year; UND's wide receivers are inexperienced; UND may lead the country in interceptions, but they're still susceptible to the long ball."  Don't come on here and say UND sucks because some flawed computer ranking system says so.

This ^^^^^^ UND could be better if we had more depth, better players, more fans at games etc.

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, jacksfan29 said:

SDSU beat 2. One is the #1 seed who we beat on the road and the other was rated just outside the top 10 all year. We laid an egg against Cal Poly and it is hard as hell to get through the MVFC without a loss. But hey, your killer schedule has been noted. Where did USD finish in the MVFC? Just about where UND would have finished.

This is why I really wanted UND to be in the same POD as SDSU and NDSU. That said, I've heard Richmond may be getting their #2 QB back. If that happens I'm not sure UND gets a trip to Cheney.