Moo U diaries

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Also, good coaches get fired all the time. Too many variables in the world of coaching to assume that someone being fired means he was even the problem. I don't know the details of his Iowa state firing, just speaking generally. After all, Bill belicheck was once fired by the browns.

True, but be careful with that Belicheck reference; someone on here will accuse you of comparing Courtney Messingham to one of the NFL's all-time greats ...

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Playing somewhere and coaching somewhere are very different things. Yes, not all P5 teams are created equally, but they have the budget to get higher quality coaches so usually earning the position of coaching at a P5 school means you are a higher quality coach. Not always of course, but again speaking generally it's true.

Key word you used was "usually" - Iowa State tends to be one of those P5 schools that is an exception to the rule as they tend to make a bit more mistakes in the hiring/performance department. Of course, you did specify that in your comment. 

[Bison06]

13 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

True, but be careful with that Belicheck reference; someone on here will accuse you of comparing Courtney Messingham to one of the NFL's all-time greats ...

I thought about that as I said it. Hopefully it isn't taken that way. What a mess that would be. Haha.

[Bison06]

12 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Key word you used was "usually" - Iowa State tends to be one of those P5 schools that is an exception to the rule as they tend to make a bit more mistakes in the hiring/performance department. Of course, you did specify that in your comment. 

Yes, Iowa state has a lot of problems in the football department. With the budgets these teams have you'd think the AD's would be able to make it work. Though in a zero sum game like football, someone has to be the worst team in the conference.

[Siouxphan27]

3 hours ago, Bison06 said:

I suppose it's human nature when two sides have opposing views, but it'll never cease to amaze me the level of hairsplitting a person will maneuver through to somehow draw the conclusion that the other party is in the most infinitesimally way incorrect when making their argument. 

"He's excellent" 

"I can't believe you would think he's excellent, he's clearly only fantastic"

"how could he be fantastic when it's obvious to everyone he is merely sensational"

Its exhausting. It's a good hire. Is "good" the proper adjective we can all agree on? 

If it turns out he sucks, it'll be a good hire. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

4 hours ago, Tolna said:

Totally understandable. I do not disagree with you.

The fact that NDSU was able to turn around and beat SDSU and Montana after losing to them shows me that coaching is big factor. Talent might not always be the determining factor. Game planning and execution are huge factors. I would argue that SDSU was the more talented team out of any of the dakota schools this year.

UND is definitely trending the right way. Will be attending a couple games this next season with some friends. Many of them used to just get GA tickets are now purchasing season tickets. Chatted with Bubba at a hockey game two weeks ago. Complimented him on how he is running UND's program and have enjoyed the times I have been able to watch.

I just don't see how you can say NDSU's talent pool is falling off after one year that they didn't win the title? None of the other dakota schools advanced further than them, until that happens, I would say the talent pool is stable. JMU was the best team in the nation this year.

Only to your last paragraph, NDSU is not as dominant as they used to be. Bisonville understands this, just seems some here don't.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

9 hours ago, NDSU grad said:

I love the enthusiasm!!

Pretty exciting, isn't it, thanks to the MVFC for knocking down that wall on N side of NDSU that was keeping your team from going north, C U in 2020.

[Bison06]

40 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Only to your last paragraph, NDSU is not as dominant as they used to be. Bisonville understands this, just seems some here don't.

Given that the "used to be" in this case is arguably the most dominant run in the history of college football, falling from that peak doesn't necessarily indicate a fall from dominance. This years NDSU team was easily the worst of the last 6 years IMO and still made the national semifinals. I, as do most others, expect next year's team to be better than this year's so we'll see how that goes for them.

[geaux_sioux]

17 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Given that the "used to be" in this case is arguably the most dominant run in the history of college football, falling from that peak doesn't necessarily indicate a fall from dominance. This years NDSU team was easily the worst of the last 6 years IMO and still made the national semifinals. I, as do most others, expect next year's team to be better than this year's so we'll see how that goes for them.

Stick just isn't that guy at qb. Doesn't have "it". Good player, just not a Brock or Carson type. I don't see him as a title winning QB but the way things go he could develop by leaps and bounds this year and make me eat crow.

[Bison06]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

Stick just isn't that guy at qb. Doesn't have "it". Good player, just not a Brock or Carson type. I don't see him as a title winning QB but the way things go he could develop by leaps and bounds this year and make me eat crow.

I think that's a fair criticism, but to be fully fair I think at this stage in his career people were saying that and much worse for Brock. A lot of people, including myself, believe the 2011 championship was won in spite of Brock not because of him. If Easton is going to take it to the level of the previous two guys, he definitely has a long way to go starting this fall.

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Bison06 said:

I think that's a fair criticism, but to be fully fair I think at this stage in his career people were saying that and much worse for Brock. A lot of people, including myself, believe the 2011 championship was won in spite of Brock not because of him. If Easton is going to take it to the level of the previous two guys, he definitely has a long way to go starting this fall.

Most people only saw Brock throwing a couple pick 6s on deep outs and didn't notice his leadership and game management. 

[Tolna]

2 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Only to your last paragraph, NDSU is not as dominant as they used to be. Bisonville understands this, just seems some here don't.

Might not of been dominant, but that still doesn't clarify your first statement of talent pool slipping? Other teams improve, recruit better, better schemes, better coaching. Could careless with what bisonville understands. Just because they weren't as dominant this year doesn't mean the talent pool is any worse. There were multiple starters on the 2016 team that won a title in 2015. Those players got worse your saying? All I am saying as I think other teams are catching up. But you might be right. 

 

That said, I think teams like SDSU, USD, and UND all have the right staffs to compete. I really like what Nielsen has done at USD and Bubba at UND. I am curious to see how much longer Stig will coach. Guys been at it awhile.  

 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

6 minutes ago, Tolna said:

Might not of been dominant, but that still doesn't clarify your first statement of talent pool slipping? Other teams improve, recruit better, better schemes, better coaching. Could careless with what bisonville understands. Just because they weren't as dominant this year doesn't mean the talent pool is any worse. There were multiple starters on the 2016 team that won a title in 2015. Those players got worse your saying? All I am saying as I think other teams are catching up. But you might be right. 

 

That said, I think teams like SDSU, USD, and UND all have the right staffs to compete. I really like what Nielsen has done at USD and Bubba at UND. I am curious to see how much longer Stig will coach. Guys been at it awhile.  

 

The highlighted, never said that, the team as a whole (players & coaches) isn't as dominant. (example, they don't have a NFL #2 draft pic at quarterback).  They're not over whelming most teams like they used to, and of course JM came along.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

3 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Given that the "used to be" in this case is arguably the most dominant run in the history of college football, falling from that peak doesn't necessarily indicate a fall from dominance. This years NDSU team was easily the worst of the last 6 years IMO and still made the national semifinals. I, as do most others, expect next year's team to be better than this year's so we'll see how that goes for them.

I'll be a son of a gun. YOU typed it.   THE STUFF IN BOLD

 

I'd call that:

Not as a dominant a team as in years past. 

Sliding

Not as good as once was !!!!!! That's the team, not all players and coaches.

Barely winning some games.

Rivalry teams are closing in.

Loosing coaches for more $.

Still maybe seeded, but potential to loose a road game in playoffs.

The wall on the north side of NDSU was tore down by MVFC.

That kinda stuff.............

2020

 

 

[bison73]

24 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

I'll be a son of a gun. YOU typed it.   THE STUFF IN BOLD

 

I'd call that:

Not as a dominant a team as in years past. 

Sliding

Not as good as once was !!!!!! That's the team, not all players and coaches.

Barely winning some games.

Rivalry teams are closing in.

Loosing coaches for more $.

Still maybe seeded, but potential to loose a road game in playoffs.

The wall on the north side of NDSU was tore down by MVFC.

That kinda stuff.............

2020

 

 

I think we are just as good as in the past except for a couple of our teams who were just monster.. The reasons for not dominating as before has more to do with most of our opponents now recruit to beat us like we did against UNI. They are recruiting big, talented, athletic kids. They have also hired S&C coaches so they are in much better shape than before when we would literally run them in to the ground in the 4th quarter. Plus opposing coaches are doing a better job of scheming us. Basically they are catching up. We need to find the edge again. Im looking forward to this up coming season. Even more so than last.

[CMSioux]

I know this is the thread to keep SU drival out of every other thread but it's a huge stretch to say SU is declining and really as a UND fan I do not care a bit about their team. I do not wish for them to slide I want us to rise.

[JohnboyND7]

6 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

I'll be a son of a gun. YOU typed it.   THE STUFF IN BOLD

 

I'd call that:

Not as a dominant a team as in years past. 

Sliding

Not as good as once was !!!!!! That's the team, not all players and coaches.

Barely winning some games.

Rivalry teams are closing in.

Loosing coaches for more $.

Still maybe seeded, but potential to loose a road game in playoffs.

The wall on the north side of NDSU was tore down by MVFC.

That kinda stuff.............

2020

 

 

Is Alabama sliding every year or two then? I mean,  they didn't win the title!

Every year(including the juggernaut 2013 team), ndsu has had close games.  Losing coaches is not a bad thing,  means you are doing a good job finding good people.  Would you rather have a low energy guy who can't do any better than FCS? No. 

[Bison06]

6 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

I'll be a son of a gun. YOU typed it.   THE STUFF IN BOLD

 

I'd call that:

Not as a dominant a team as in years past. 

Sliding

Not as good as once was !!!!!! That's the team, not all players and coaches.

Barely winning some games.

Rivalry teams are closing in.

Loosing coaches for more $.

Still maybe seeded, but potential to loose a road game in playoffs.

The wall on the north side of NDSU was tore down by MVFC.

That kinda stuff.............

2020

 

 

You're really reaching for this one. Not every team can be better than the previous year's team. This past year in my mind was already going to be a team that was looking to replace some great players, corners were both green, offensive line was replacing NFL talent and then of course there's replacing Carson wentz, all that was before our two best and possibly most important defensive players went down for the season and the team still made the national semifinals, lost to the eventual champion and beat the other team in the championship in the regular season. The 2014 team wasn't as good as the 2013 team, did that mean they were slipping?  I realize for a UND fan it is comforting to think NDSU's run might be over, but all indications are that NDSU is primed and ready for another deep playoff run next year so don't hold your breath. 

[Bison06]

9 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Most people only saw Brock throwing a couple pick 6s on deep outs and didn't notice his leadership and game management. 

I agree, he clearly had leadership qualities that were special, but some of those throws left a lot of people scratching their head. Easton also doesn't have a receiver like Ryan smith to bail him out with a circus catch and a run after catch to move the chains like Brock had consistently.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, CMSioux said:

I know this is the thread to keep SU drival out of every other thread but it's a huge stretch to say SU is declining and really as a UND fan I do not care a bit about their team. I do not wish for them to slide I want us to rise.

There is a certain capacity or overall limit for two DI North Dakota college football teams, though. That is, the dynamic is a bit of a balancing act. It would be very difficult for NDSU and UND to both be FCS no. 1 and no. 2 based on regional talent numbers (only so many good players in ND, Minnesota, Wisconsin). For UND to rise up the ranks, NDSU has to come down some. I'm not saying NDSU has to drop out of NC contention, but they won't be nearly as dominant as in years past if UND is doing the right thing. I think that is now the case due to UND's progress and Bubba's recruiting putting up far more resistance than in years past (pre-2014). 2016, and now 2017 NDSU, is far closer to 2016 or 2017 UND than 2013 NDSU was to 2013 UND - kind of confusing but just a comparison of both schools' recent trajectory. 

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

There is a certain capacity for two DI North Dakota college football teams, though. That is, the dynamic is a bit of a balancing act. It would be very difficult for NDSU and UND to both be FCS no. 1 and no. 2 based on regional talent numbers (only so many good players in ND, Minnesota, Wisconsin). For UND to rise up the ranks, NDSU has to come down some. I'm not saying NDSU has to drop out of NC contention, but they won't be nearly as dominant as in years past if UND is doing the right thing. I think that is now the case due to UND's progress and Bubba's recruiting putting up far more resistance than in years past (pre-2014). 

Makes some sense.

Football players are football players, but UND and NDSU also run very different defenses. The offenses are similar enough that they could recruit the same players a lot, but the defenses are different enough that it is reasonable to think they may not value the same players in recruiting all the time. 

[The Sicatoka]

I do believe it's possible for UND and NDSU to be the top two in FCS at the same time and for an era. 

I base this on UND and NDSU being the top two in DII WBB for a long time. 

Right now, both are top 12. That says each team is a couple players away from it. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Makes some sense.

Football players are football players, but UND and NDSU also run very different defenses. The offenses are similar enough that they could recruit the same players a lot, but the defenses are different enough that it is reasonable to think they may not value the same players in recruiting all the time. 

I can sort of see that, but not in terms of top tier talent. I can ensure you the top NDSU defensive players from the recent years (Kyle Emanuel, Marcus Williams, Colten Heagle) would've been welcomed by Eric Schmidt with open arms. Those guys would've fit right in because, bottom line, they are good players with NFL talent. 

So, my aforementioned point was there is only so many of those type of players regionally for UND and NDSU to recruit and compete for. It's a balancing act between UND and NDSU. Not a complete coincidence that NDSUs dynasty came during the dark years of UND football.

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

I do believe it's possible for UND and NDSU to be the top two in FCS at the same time and for an era. 

I base this on UND and NDSU being the top two in DII WBB for a long time. 

Right now, both are top 12. That says each team is a couple players away from it. 

NDSU won't be at their dominant level of 2013 if UND rises to the top 5; it's very unlikely at least. As I mentioned before, though, both teams can simultaneously be title contenders. 

[Bison06]

I think the UND coaching staff may find themselves in a bit of an interesting recruiting position these next few years. As we know, nearly every team is built to win its respective conference. Conference teams are who you play the majority of your games against so it makes sense to build your team to beat those teams specifically. What's interesting is the style to win the big sky and the style to win the MVFC are very different and IMO require a different approach in building your team. e.g. In the big sky, your defense better be able to handle 5 wide on a consistent basis, meaning you'll likely want to have a lot of depth in your secondary. In the MVFC if you see 5 wide it won't be all game so you probably don't need quite the depth in the secondary. In the MVFC you'll get more of a steady dose of the power running game and will likely need a much deeper front 7, especially the d line. NDSU has won championships on the back of a defense that is built from the front back and their d line depth has been amazing these past 7 years.

How do you think the UND coaches will approach the task of staying competitive in the big sky for the time being, but also knowing that their team will need to be built differently to compete in the MVFC year in and year out.