If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?

[burd]

I've been getting gopher hate counseling for many years.  It started with Bill Butters getting into a fight with Sioux fans in the old barn after he got ejected for fighting.  For a long time, I was having weekly sessions; then, with realignment, that gradually decreased to the point where I now only go in once a year for a check-up.  I miss my hate, and I miss my counselor. I don't know how he got the referral--he has little freezer in his office with a small dead gopher collection.    It's the same little dead gophers in there now that were there 4 years ago.  I know, because we look at them every time I go in, remembering the days.   He is very good because he grew up in Edina and saw firsthand what there is to hate.    

[tnt]

17 hours ago, GFG said:

What was last years excuse for Duluth's empty arena? Or the excuse for every series this year? Including the games before anyone knew they would underachieve. Even Minnesota and North Dakota series there had plenty of open seats. And if Duluth is excused for pitiful attendance because they're not as good as they thought they would be 20 games into the season why doesn't Minnesota get that exemption for extreme underachieving last season and struggling with 10 freshman this season? I'm just curious to see your thoughts on it.

Don't understand why either team has such poor attendance.  How many times were Hakstol's teams at about .500 after Christmas, and attendance remained constant.  I know we are at a time where attendance at all athletics is down, but the malaise at some of college hockey's great programs still baffles and concerns me a bit. 

[snova4]

54 minutes ago, tnt said:

Don't understand why either team has such poor attendance.  How many times were Hakstol's teams at about .500 after Christmas, and attendance remained constant.  I know we are at a time where attendance at all athletics is down, but the malaise at some of college hockey's great programs still baffles and concerns me a bit. 

I don't have season tickets, so if I want to sit anywhere other than section 311 when I go to a game, I'm going to pay upwards of $200 for tickets for my wife and I. Factor in a sandwich or nachos, and a couple beers, I'm looking at $300 a night. I know Minnesota tickets are $75 just buying them outright without having to find better. I don't know, but maybe cost has more to do with it than we think. Especially when you're looking at places like Minnesota and Duluth where businesses snatch up the tickets.

[Smoggy]

Anyone else find it strange that both big B1G games were played at 4 today?  I get umtc because of hockey day in Minnesota, but why Michigan - Michigan State???

[runaroundsioux]

3 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Anyone else find it strange that both big B1G games were played at 4 today?  I get umtc because of hockey day in Minnesota, but why Michigan - Michigan State???

B1G Basketball tonight. Hockey is about 4th fiddle on the Big Ten Network. 

[Godsmack]

On February 6, 2016 at 8:58 PM, GFG said:

Almost all of Minnesota's fans would rather have the old WCHA back, but we can't. It's kind of fun playing the B1G schools on the ice, but it's not as fun for fans because we never see their fans and can't develop hatred for one another. I would actually love the B1G conference right now + UND. It would give both fan bases that hatred between each other that we all long for , as well as playing "big name" schools. Living in Grand Forks my whole life, it's been extremely noticeable the last couple of years that even UND's crazy fan base has suffered from the rivalry being gone and both schools have to make sure it's an every year thing that they play. I don't mean it as a dig when I say UND's fan base has suffered, so please don't take it like that. Clearly everyone still loves UND hockey here, but when the rivalry was around this town revolved around it. You couldn't be anywhere at any time and not have it brought up. The passion just isn't quite the same right now. The rivalry just gave both fan bases such a charge that carried throughout the entire season that I don't think there would be anything for a VERY long time that could ever come close to replacing it for either side. 

People can say "Denver, UMD and SCSU" replaced Minnesota and what not, but it's not true and everyone knows. Same with Minnesota, there's nothing that the majority of fans can say replaced their hatred for UND as a rival. Some people have always hated Wisconsin just as much, if not more than UND because of the B1G rivalry, but UND is easily the overall biggest rival for Minnesota in hockey and it's not close. I actually really enjoy playing Michigan and hate them, but they'll never reach the rivalry level of UND. 

My only idea? When Minnesota hires a new AD get as many people as possible, MN and UND fans, to send emails to the AD explaining why the series should be played every year. Let whomever they hire hear from a couple thousand people that this rivalry is something they want. Not guaranteed to work, but it certainly can't hurt.

You're right-DU isn't quite the rivalry as Minnesota partly due to proximity (familiarity breeds contempt) as well as how well Gopher fans would travel to the Ralph compared DU fans (what fans? -we come close to out-numbering them at Magness). Thanks Donny for taking away a series that both UND and Gopher fans want.

[GFG]

On 2/6/2016 at 1:40 PM, tnt said:

Don't understand why either team has such poor attendance.  How many times were Hakstol's teams at about .500 after Christmas, and attendance remained constant.  I know we are at a time where attendance at all athletics is down, but the malaise at some of college hockey's great programs still baffles and concerns me a bit. 

You and I both. Seeing as it appears to be mostly season tickets that just aren't being used for Minnesota the university needs to figure something out. I'm sure parking keeps some of them away for a lot of games. It's an absolute disaster parking around there and they don't have shuttle services from restaurants and bars like schools in smaller cities do. I know that's not the biggest problem, but it certainly could be a contributing factor. 

[cberkas]

GFG made a good point on GPL about how the B1G should add UND. I do believe and I'm sure GFG does to that UND would increase the TV ratings of the B1G Network. I think the B1G has made an offer to UND to join as a hockey affiliate, but UND didn't get what they want from the B1G and told them no. I look at the Michigan State game as an example that the B1G didn't want to be out show by a non-B1G member that has one if not the biggest fan bases by not showing the Michigan State-UND game, but instead showing a football game from the 70's.

The funny things is that Gopher fans and I'm sure B1G fans also said UND is going to need us more then we need them. Well it turns out the B1G needs UND and other NCHC schools, and UND/NCHC fans don't need the B1G. Just go on GPL and see how many times UND is brought up when UND shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

[sioux rube]

Can't believe 31 folks voted yes

[GFG]

3 hours ago, cberkas said:

GFG made a good point on GPL about how the B1G should add UND. I do believe and I'm sure GFG does to that UND would increase the TV ratings of the B1G Network. I think the B1G has made an offer to UND to join as a hockey affiliate, but UND didn't get what they want from the B1G and told them no. I look at the Michigan State game as an example that the B1G didn't want to be out show by a non-B1G member that has one if not the biggest fan bases by not showing the Michigan State-UND game, but instead showing a football game from the 70's.

The funny things is that Gopher fans and I'm sure B1G fans also said UND is going to need us more then we need them. Well it turns out the B1G needs UND and other NCHC schools, and UND/NCHC fans don't need the B1G. Just go on GPL and see how many times UND is brought up when UND shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

They still wouldn't be big ratings by BTN standards at all, but they'd be an improvement for hockey ratings on BTN. Other than games involving Minnesota, hockey ratings have been BAD on BTN. Rick Pizzo said on Twitter the other day that they're extremely bad and that even volleyball absolutely crushes all hockey ratings on BTN. The B1G thought they could just make people across their footprint watch by branding it under their name without realizing how much of a niche sport college hockey actually is. You can't just hope to make people watch like they're currently doing. They have to provide compelling matchups that draw in people that are already college hockey fans. Adding in a school like UND will draw in UND's fanbase, including the ones all over the country since so many of them could get BTN on DirecTV and stuff, along with other college hockey fans who tune in to watch teams like UND and Minnesota play. For the most part nobody cares about watching OSU, MSU, Michigan or god forbid Wisconsin and their boring style. Most of those schools have never really had their own fans watch on TV before, so why would others want to watch? A school like UND will give them higher hockey ratings for sure. They also need to change their philosophy and start televising non-conference games when their schools play against the likes of BC, BU, etc. Once they learn that they need to try and draw in actual college hockey fans and not just try to force B1G fans to watch they'll see major improvements in viewership, IMO. 8 of the 14 B1G teams have never had hockey on their campuses so why would those people care at all about watching? Heck, a lot of OSU students, fans, alumni etc. apparently say they've never even known they had a hockey team. 

The UND-MSU game wasn't televised because BTN doesn't televise non-conference games. They only broadcast conference games because the non-conference games are going on during football season.

[siouxkid12]

http://www.citypages.com/news/what-happened-to-the-university-of-minnesota-hockey-program-7960026

http://m.startribune.com/big-ten-hockey-is-a-buzzkill-for-fans-in-minnesota/370397541/

After reading the struggles that their fans and the BigTen are going through. I for one would not want UND to join the BigTen. UND and the rest of the NCHC are doing great (outside of holding the tournament at the crappy Target Center). I do not want to watch college hockey on Thursday night are during the day during the week. College hockey is meant to be played on Friday's and Saturday's. To me, playing in the BigTen means you are getting regulated to bottom tier status compared to other sports and college hockey does not need that. So if it were me, I would tell the BigTen to kick rocks and go sleep in the bed you made.

Also, Don Lucia needs to be fired. That smug attitude of his is bringing down the Gophers program.

[burd]

I will be extremely surprised if the B1G does not rebound from its current state of mediocrity and start producing more top 15 teams   I hope they do, because they will need Wisconsin to do that, and our rivalry with them was best when both teams were very good.  Nearly all Wisconsin fans I know feel the same way about that rivalry.  It's like there's fun hate and hate hate.  UMinn gets hate hate from both programs, while UW/UND is mostly mutual fun hate.

B1G is our enemy, but I'd just as soon have them be good so we can still kick their arses when they don't have "down year" excuses. 

[GFG]

7 hours ago, burd said:

I will be extremely surprised if the B1G does not rebound from its current state of mediocrity and start producing more top 15 teams   I hope they do, because they will need Wisconsin to do that, and our rivalry with them was best when both teams were very good.  Nearly all Wisconsin fans I know feel the same way about that rivalry.  It's like there's fun hate and hate hate.  UMinn gets hate hate from both programs, while UW/UND is mostly mutual fun hate.

B1G is our enemy, but I'd just as soon have them be good so we can still kick their arses when they don't have "down year" excuses. 

The B1G will improve, I would be very surprised if it didn't. Adding 2 teams will help big time because it helps spread out the conference a bit more. You'll end up with more 'good' and 'average' teams, instead of 3 decent teams and 3 awful teams. I honestly don't know if I have faith in Wisconsin ever returning to a perennial contender as long as Barry Alvarez is running their athletic program. It's painfully obvious that he wants them to struggle because it funnels more fans to basketball where there's much more money to be made among ticket sales and TV deals. The hockey team may have some decent years, but I'd be surprised if they weren't a bottom feeder more often than not. I feel confident in saying Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State will more often than not be the top 3 teams for the foreseeable future, because we all know Ohio State will never compete and Michigan State is such a disaster that it's going to take quite some time to recover

[burd]

7 hours ago, GFG said:

The B1G will improve, I would be very surprised if it didn't. Adding 2 teams will help big time because it helps spread out the conference a bit more. You'll end up with more 'good' and 'average' teams, instead of 3 decent teams and 3 awful teams. I honestly don't know if I have faith in Wisconsin ever returning to a perennial contender as long as Barry Alvarez is running their athletic program. It's painfully obvious that he wants them to struggle because it funnels more fans to basketball where there's much more money to be made among ticket sales and TV deals. The hockey team may have some decent years, but I'd be surprised if they weren't a bottom feeder more often than not. I feel confident in saying Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State will more often than not be the top 3 teams for the foreseeable future, because we all know Ohio State will never compete and Michigan State is such a disaster that it's going to take quite some time to recover

I don't follow Michigan State, but what in the heck happened there?   Such a good hockey tradition. 

[Cratter]

There just continuing their run of mediocre.

One regular season and two post season conference championships in 15 years. 

[Trunk Monkey]

51 minutes ago, Cratter said:

There just continuing their run of mediocre.

One regular season and two post season conference championships in 15 years. 

National Champion in 2006 - 2007. 

[Cratter]

18 minutes ago, Trunk Monkey said:

National Champion in 2006 - 2007. 

Two Frozen Fours in the last 15 years.

[Trunk Monkey]

6 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Two Frozen Fours in the last 15 years.

And yet they still got a banner.

[siouxkid12]

14 minutes ago, Trunk Monkey said:

And yet they still got a banner.

And it proves that the best team doesn't always win...

[siouxkid12]

9 hours ago, GFG said:

The B1G will improve, I would be very surprised if it didn't. Adding 2 teams will help big time because it helps spread out the conference a bit more. You'll end up with more 'good' and 'average' teams, instead of 3 decent teams and 3 awful teams. I honestly don't know if I have faith in Wisconsin ever returning to a perennial contender as long as Barry Alvarez is running their athletic program. It's painfully obvious that he wants them to struggle because it funnels more fans to basketball where there's much more money to be made among ticket sales and TV deals. The hockey team may have some decent years, but I'd be surprised if they weren't a bottom feeder more often than not. I feel confident in saying Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State will more often than not be the top 3 teams for the foreseeable future, because we all know Ohio State will never compete and Michigan State is such a disaster that it's going to take quite some time to recover

My point isn't about having the crappy B10 improve, my point is that hockey is in a growth mode and the B10 is regulating it to bottom tier status. I couldn't care less if every team in the B10 like playing their games on Thursday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, personally I do not want to see UND's big conference games on a Thursday or Sunday afternoon during that time. Like I said before, college hockey is played on a Friday or Saturday night (until you get to tournaments). If I was any school looking to join a new conference, I would stay away from the B10 and join a conference where all programs want each other to succeed.
 

[Trunk Monkey]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

And it proves that the best team doesn't always win...

If we played 'em ten times, they might win nine.

But not this game. Not tonight.

That is what makes sports great.....

[GFG]

4 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

My point isn't about having the crappy B10 improve, my point is that hockey is in a growth mode and the B10 is regulating it to bottom tier status. I couldn't care less if every team in the B10 like playing their games on Thursday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, personally I do not want to see UND's big conference games on a Thursday or Sunday afternoon during that time. Like I said before, college hockey is played on a Friday or Saturday night (until you get to tournaments). If I was any school looking to join a new conference, I would stay away from the B10 and join a conference where all programs want each other to succeed.
 

Minnesota had 1..I repeat, ONE game on Thursday this year, and it was last week against Michigan. They had 2 others that were out of their control in the North Star Cup on Sunday and SCSU on Sunday because they had a home football game against Wisconsin on Saturday, making it nearly impossible to have a hockey game that day. That's something they did during home football games while they were in the WCHA, too. You completely blow it out of proportion. Either Minnesota agreed to have the Michigan series on Thursday and Friday to have both games televised by BTN, or else there were other events in the area Saturday (Red Bull Crashed Ice World Championships) that they didn't want to compete with, which is also a strong possibility. The NCHC has had some Thursday games this year, too. Denver and CC just had one two weeks ago, so it's not a B1G thing.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a tiring thing to hear when it's almost completely not true. 

[UND-RedSox fan]

21 hours ago, burd said:

I will be extremely surprised if the B1G does not rebound from its current state of mediocrity and start producing more top 15 teams   I hope they do, because they will need Wisconsin to do that, and our rivalry with them was best when both teams were very good.  Nearly all Wisconsin fans I know feel the same way about that rivalry.  It's like there's fun hate and hate hate.  UMinn gets hate hate from both programs, while UW/UND is mostly mutual fun hate.

B1G is our enemy, but I'd just as soon have them be good so we can still kick their arses when they don't have "down year" excuses. 

It's weird this year. There's a small chance that three teams from the Big 10 could make the tournament even though they have been awful this year. The only teams that weren't terrible out of conference were Michigan and Penn State. And the only reason Penn State wasn't awful is because they are pretty much an honorary Atlantic Hockey member. Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Ohio State have been terrible period. Yet the lowest Pairwise spot in the Big 10 is Michigan State at 44. I have no idea how Wisconsin is at 40 considering they only have 6 wins; 2 over #59 Arizona State, 2 over #55 Alaska, us, and 1 win over #44 Michigan State. Is the win over us the difference between 40th and 55th for them?

[GFG]

28 minutes ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

It's weird this year. There's a small chance that three teams from the Big 10 could make the tournament even though they have been awful this year. The only teams that weren't terrible out of conference were Michigan and Penn State. And the only reason Penn State wasn't awful is because they are pretty much an honorary Atlantic Hockey member. Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Ohio State have been terrible period. Yet the lowest Pairwise spot in the Big 10 is Michigan State at 44. I have no idea how Wisconsin is at 40 considering they only have 6 wins; 2 over #59 Arizona State, 2 over #55 Alaska, us, and 1 win over #44 Michigan State. Is the win over us the difference between 40th and 55th for them?

Honestly, it very well could be. When you're down near the bottom it's extremely easy to move up and down, especially with a win like that. It's fairly easy to move around in the PWR until you start to reach right around #12 and above. Once you get there it's difficult to start moving up because all teams have solid numbers and are usually winning more often than not.

[UND-RedSox fan]

3 minutes ago, GFG said:

Honestly, it very well could be. When you're down near the bottom it's extremely easy to move up and down, especially with a win like that. It's fairly easy to move around in the PWR until you start to reach right around #12 and above. Once you get there it's difficult to start moving up because all times have solid numbers and are usually winning more often than not.

I guess they did tie Denver as well. Two good results is probably better than a lot of the teams in that area can say even if those were the only two non-negatives on the season.