NCAA To Sanction UND if School Does Not Adopt New Nickname

[82SiouxGuy]

First off the "we are ND" was an FSN thing. We are no longer on there so that's why it seems like the ad is gone. "We are FSN, we are NORTH DAKOTA "

If the four of you weren't so afraid of no nickname being on the ballot, this over and over BS wouldn't be happening on here. 

We all know the outcome if it is on the ballot, and that's why the four of you brand everyone a person that can't let go, and by the way you are WRONG! Also you are obviously scared to death, it shows in every post you write over and over and over and over! 

News flash, if you keep saying it is wrong, will not make it wrong! It will not change the higher ups decision either! Let's just see what they decide to do, shall we?

No one knows what the outcome would be if it were on the ballot. My guess is that it would meet the same fate as when the Sioux Forever group wanted to keep the nickname and it went to a statewide ballot since there are a lot more than 4 people that want it to end, and want UND to move on with a new nickname. It is time to end this long, long, long, long waste of time.

[Siouxphan27]

Yet it managed to have the lowest score twice among remaining nicknames and was eventually cut by the committee selected to represent stakeholders.  But keep telling yourself its only 4 people that see it for what it is.  If the "no nickname" crowd could get over their obsession with an inanimate object, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  No one is saying to forget about it and pretend it never existed, just take it off the pedestal and look at the big picture.

students just voted 3 to 1 to keep North Dakota on the ballot.  Yet 3 of 4 "representatives" on the committee voted to take it off.

It's pretty obvious the committee members represented only themselves and voted accordingly, yielding the cluster of 5 choices that remain.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Siouxphan27

[bigskyvikes]

Yet it managed to have the lowest score twice among remaining nicknames and was eventually cut by the committee selected to represent stakeholders.  But keep telling yourself its only 4 people that see it for what it is.  If the "no nickname" crowd could get over their obsession with an inanimate object, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  No one is saying to forget about it and pretend it never existed, just take it off the pedestal and look at the big picture.

The first time they took ideas from the public it had been written the most over any other name I believe. The times you speak of had to do with people that had an agenda. It lost 7-4, that's 3 more votes only you know?

If its on the final vote from the people, how do you think it will end? I believe I know that answer, ND by a landslide! I've been wrong before, but I'm ok with being wrong if that choice is voted down, unlike the opposition being afraid of it..

[bigskyvikes]

A ceremony that the Standing Rock Tribal Council has ignored since about 1992. I believe that was the first year they came out against UND using the Sioux nickname. That group included someone that was part of the ceremony.*WRONG*

I would guess that the Standing Rock Tribal Council knows much more about that pipe ceremony than you do. It must not have been as "sacred" as you and others believe.   *This is a very small group! NOT THE TRIBE*

Do those Standing Rock Tribal Council members fit in your PC group? *The 6 people....yes!*

And how about the tribal members from both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock that voted to get rid of the nickname in 2012.

* WRONG*  They didnt go out and vote,  Not a priority for them* Do you know how many signed the petition that was on the reservation? Over 1000, they wanted them to keep the name, they feel strong about the ceremony! But their voice was silence because of the council you acr like is a following of people against the name!

It passed in all counties, including the counties where the reservations are located. And it passed in the precincts on the reservation. I guess those tribal members must also be PC and abusing a "sacred" ceremony.

I did this on my phone, hope you understand what I was trying to say above in your quote.

[jackal]

students just voted 3 to 1 to keep North Dakota on the ballot.  Yet 3 of 4 "representatives" on the committee voted to take it off.

It's pretty obvious the committee members represented only themselves and voted accordingly, yielding the cluster of 5 choices that remain.

15% of the students voted to keep North Dakota on the ballot.

[Siouxphan27]

15% of the students voted to keep North Dakota on the ballot.

15% of the students voted to keep North Dakota on the ballot.

5% voted to not have North Dakota on the ballot.

 

statistics are fun!!!     

[TBR]

students just voted 3 to 1 to keep North Dakota on the ballot.  Yet 3 of 4 "representatives" on the committee voted to take it off.

It's pretty obvious the committee members represented only themselves and voted accordingly, yielding the cluster of 5 choices that remain.

One way to interpret this discrepancy is that the committee members have more information at their disposal than do the students, have spent more time digesting that information, and have more insight to the ramifications of various options.  Not saying that that is necessarily the case, but I don't think we are necessarily seeing some sort of oligarchy either.

[Blackheart]

No one knows what the outcome would be if it were on the ballot. My guess is that it would meet the same fate as when the Sioux Forever group wanted to keep the nickname and it went to a statewide ballot since there are a lot more than 4 people that want it to end, and want UND to move on with a new nickname. It is time to end this long, long, long, long waste of time.

Are you referring to the selection of the new nickname or this thread? :)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Blackheart

[82SiouxGuy]

I did this on my phone, hope you understand what I was trying to say above in your quote.

You really need to educate yourself on the facts, not just pay attention to one book. Aljoe Agard was Tribal Chair at Standing Rock from 1961-1969, and was part of the group that participated in the pipe ceremony. He was a member of the Tribal Council in 1992. That Tribal Council passed a resolution asking UND to quit using the Sioux nickname. He voted for that resolution. Those are facts, look them up. He must not have believed the ceremony was "sacred", and neither did the rest of the Tribal Council.

You think that the tribe is in favor of the nickname because of a petition where they got 1004 signatures. You don't mention the fact that an opposing petition which asked the Tribal Council to continue supporting the 1992 resolution against the nickname got 1010 signatures. 1010 is more than 1004. Maybe they aren't as in favor as you think. Then you say that they didn't vote for the nickname because it wasn't a priority to them. It was part of a regular election. They didn't have to go out of their way for a special election. It wasn't even important enough for them to go to a regular election and vote to keep the nickname. That doesn't show me that it is very important to them at all.

You also don't seem to realize how government works. The Tribal Council is very similar to the operation of the United States Congress or the North Dakota Legislature. Representatives are elected to make decisions for the entire group. Regular people don't get to vote on every decision. Actually, at the federal level the only decisions that the people get to vote on are to decide who is going to represent them. The same is true in over half the states. The tribal members don't get to make decisions on how their tribal government is run, they elect a Tribal Council to do so. The tribal members showed that they had very little interest in keeping the Sioux nickname by their very low turnout at the election where they had a chance to vote on it. This mirrored the little interest in keeping the nickname showed by the Standing Rock Tribal Council. Just because a small group has been vocal doesn't mean that they have a lot of people that support them. Again, try doing a little more research on the subject and learning more of the facts.

[82SiouxGuy]

Are you referring to the selection of the new nickname or this thread? :)

It probably applies to both.

[jdub27]

It's pretty obvious the committee members represented only themselves and voted accordingly, yielding the cluster of 5 choices that remain.

Pretty bold accusation.  Having talked to some of them I also think its blatantly false.

 

The first time they took ideas from the public it had been written the most over any other name I believe. The times you speak of had to do with people that had an agenda. It lost 7-4, that's 3 more votes only you know?  

You citing something where people were able to (and very obviously did) submit things as many times as they could click a button.  It carries zero weight.

Yes, the nickname committee had an agenda: to pick a new nickname.  You are correct, it was voted 7-4 to remove "no nickname" but it was the lowest remaining score among those left under consideration twice and somehow survived the first time.

[UND1983]

Nothing quite like white guys trying to speak intelligently about Tribal traditions and customs from 45 years ago.  

[SlowHand]

Should have looked at aircraft nicknames during the making of the list.

Banshee, Blackbird,Phantom, Lightning.....

Many aero theme nicknames.  

I think the consultants and committee really dropped the ball on the choices you have been given.

 

 

[homer]

The first time they took ideas from the public it had been written the most over any other name I believe. The times you speak of had to do with people that had an agenda. It lost 7-4, that's 3 more votes only you know?

If its on the final vote from the people, how do you think it will end? I believe I know that answer, ND by a landslide! I've been wrong before, but I'm ok with being wrong if that choice is voted down, unlike the opposition being afraid of it..

That is similar to using the Forum poll as a reference point as well.

[82SiouxGuy]

Pretty bold accusation.  Having talked to some of them I also think its blatantly false.

 

You citing something where people were able to (and very obviously did) submit things as many times as they could click a button.  It carries zero weight.

Yes, the nickname committee had an agenda: to pick a new nickname.  You are correct, it was voted 7-4 to remove "no nickname" but it was the lowest remaining score among those left under consideration twice and somehow survived the first time.

You mean a list where Ermines was submitted 35 times? Or where Flickertails was submitted more than 180 times? A list that we know included a large number of submissions by NDSU fans to try to interfere with UND getting a new nickname? That sounds like a real accurate portrayal of interest, doesn't it.

[homer]

The first time they took ideas from the public it had been written the most over any other name I believe. The times you speak of had to do with people that had an agenda. It lost 7-4, that's 3 more votes only you know?

If its on the final vote from the people, how do you think it will end? I believe I know that answer, ND by a landslide! I've been wrong before, but I'm ok with being wrong if that choice is voted down, unlike the opposition being afraid of it..

In your opinion who gets to vote?  I'd say students, alumni and tax paying citizens of North Dakota.  Would you agree?

[bigskyvikes]

You really need to educate yourself on the facts, not just pay attention to one book. Aljoe Agard was Tribal Chair at Standing Rock from 1961-1969, and was part of the group that participated in the pipe ceremony. He was a member of the Tribal Council in 1992. That Tribal Council passed a resolution asking UND to quit using the Sioux nickname. He voted for that resolution. Those are facts, look them up. He must not have believed the ceremony was "sacred", and neither did the rest of the Tribal Council.

You think that the tribe is in favor of the nickname because of a petition where they got 1004 signatures. You don't mention the fact that an opposing petition which asked the Tribal Council to continue supporting the 1992 resolution against the nickname got 1010 signatures. 1010 is more than 1004. Maybe they aren't as in favor as you think. Then you say that they didn't vote for the nickname because it wasn't a priority to them. It was part of a regular election. They didn't have to go out of their way for a special election. It wasn't even important enough for them to go to a regular election and vote to keep the nickname. That doesn't show me that it is very important to them at all.

You also don't seem to realize how government works. The Tribal Council is very similar to the operation of the United States Congress or the North Dakota Legislature. Representatives are elected to make decisions for the entire group. Regular people don't get to vote on every decision. Actually, at the federal level the only decisions that the people get to vote on are to decide who is going to represent them. The same is true in over half the states. The tribal members don't get to make decisions on how their tribal government is run, they elect a Tribal Council to do so. The tribal members showed that they had very little interest in keeping the Sioux nickname by their very low turnout at the election where they had a chance to vote on it. This mirrored the little interest in keeping the nickname showed by the Standing Rock Tribal Council. Just because a small group has been vocal doesn't mean that they have a lot of people that support them. Again, try doing a little more research on the subject and learning more of the facts.

Everyone that doesn't share your view needs to educate themselves! I do know how government works, I don't act like a council is all tribal people's opinions on something like you do, just because you voted for a president does that mean you agree with everything he does? Try and have a debate once without belittling people! Tribal people apparently don't care to go out and vote in a statewide vote, they did sign a petition in the res though? How is that hard to understand? You ever think this one book might know more about the whole thing than you? I'm sure that's impossible in your superior mind!

I tthink you are wrong on your stance, I hope ND becomes the name, I don't believe any of you and the three others doom and gloom bs! 

Edited August 21, 2015 by bigskyvikes

[bigskyvikes]

In your opinion who gets to vote?  I'd say students, alumni and tax paying citizens of North Dakota.  Would you agree?

Yes and donaters.

[82SiouxGuy]

Everyone that doesn't share your view needs to educate themselves! I do know how government works, I don't act like a council is all tribal people's opinions on something like you do, just because you voted for a president does that mean you agree with everything he does? Try and have a debate once without belittling people! Tribal people apparently don't care to go out and vote in a statewide vote, they did sign a petition in the res though? How is that hard to understand? You ever think this one book might know more about the whole thing than you? I'm sure that's impossible in your superior mind!

I tthink you are wrong on your stance, I hope ND becomes the name, I don't believe any of you and the three others doom and gloom bs! 

I don't have to agree with the President, or with the Congress, but I do have to follow the laws that they establish. Those are the rules. The opinions of the people are not what decides issues, the actions of the elected officials make the decisions. The Standing Rock Tribal Council has acted on the issue several times, and since 1992 they have been constant in their opposition to UND using the Sioux nickname. You are the one belittling people with your "only 4 people" thing. I don't believe I'm belittling you when I point out facts, and you don't. That is part of debate. You said I was wrong about the Standing Rock Tribal Council coming out against the Sioux nickname in 1992, and that a member of the group that participated in the pipe ceremony was part of that Tribal Council. The facts say otherwise. I keep saying that the Tribal Council has acted on the issue, you go back to saying that only a small number of people were involved even though that is exactly how the process is supposed to work. You bring up the petition with 1004 signatures. I mention an opposing petition with 1010 signatures and you ignore it. You say that maybe tribal members don't vote in elections, if they actually want their opinions to count that is the process to make it happen. Putting their opinion on Facebook does not really count. How are any of those hard to understand?

As tSic and others have pointed out, nothing in that book is new, none of it was hidden. Everything was published by the regular media as it happened. Or it is taken out of context. Or it ignores how the legal system actually works. It doesn't prove what you think it does. Try Google, or Bing, or one of the multitude of other search engines and get more information. I have been watching and/or participating in this debate for almost 50 years, almost the entire time that the Sioux nickname has been debated on campus. It was talked about when I was a student in the late 70's and early 80's (I'm SiouxGuy82 because I graduated from UND in 1982), plus I grew up in the area and remember it being discussed going back before that. I don't know if I'm an expert or not, but I do know quite a bit about the subject, from both sides.

[homer]

Yes and donaters.

Property tax or income tax?

[ericpnelson]

Property tax or income tax?

no to tax payers in ND

[yababy8]

A ceremony that the Standing Rock Tribal Council has ignored since about 1992. I believe that was the first year they came out against UND using the Sioux nickname. That group included someone that was part of the ceremony. I would guess that the Standing Rock Tribal Council knows much more about that pipe ceremony than you do. It must not have been as "sacred" as you and others believe. Do those Standing Rock Tribal Council members fit in your PC group?

And how about the tribal members from both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock that voted to get rid of the nickname in 2012. It passed in all counties, including the counties where the reservations are located. And it passed in the precincts on the reservation. I guess those tribal members must also be PC and abusing a "sacred" ceremony.

Nice try 82.

I told you and F.S.F. and scottm on here back in 2012 when you were demanding I give one good reason why one should vote to keep the name that that "one hood reason" was so that people wouldn't be able to say B.S. like what you just said

We all know what the Sioux as a majority wanted.  That was clearly demonstrated  in the polls before 2012.  They like everyone else voted that way to protect UND from sanctions as the aggressive media campaign said they should.  Even Hak said it.  

So F.off with your petty B.S. manipulations of that vote.  You know the truth!  The Sioux wanted and still want by majority to keep their name..

You're truly the worst kind of cancer to this whole situation.  The fact that anyone listens to your rhetoric is beyond me.

[Siouxperfan7]

Nice try 82.

I told you and F.S.F. and scottm on here back in 2012 when you were demanding I give one good reason why one should vote to keep the name that that "one hood reason" was so that people wouldn't be able to say B.S. like what you just said

We all know what the Sioux as a majority wanted.  That was clearly demonstrated  in the polls before 2012.  They like everyone else voted that way to protect UND from sanctions as the aggressive media campaign said they should.  Even Hak said it.  

So F.off with your petty B.S. manipulations of that vote.  You know the truth!  The Sioux wanted and still want by majority to keep their name..

You're truly the worst kind of cancer to this whole situation.  The fact that anyone listens to your rhetoric is beyond me.

What are you guys debating?  Whether or no the Sioux tribes supported UND using the Sioux name?  Why are you debating this?  It makes no difference now.  Standing Rock could come out tomorrow in overwhelming support of the Sioux name and it would be too late.  Why bicker and fight about whether or not the Sioux tribes actually supported UND using the name and when.  

 

[UND1983]

So we can tell people to f*ck off now, like bigbaby did above?  Mods let us know what goes.  

[darell1976]

Nice try 82.

I told you and F.S.F. and scottm on here back in 2012 when you were demanding I give one good reason why one should vote to keep the name that that "one hood reason" was so that people wouldn't be able to say B.S. like what you just said

We all know what the Sioux as a majority wanted.  That was clearly demonstrated  in the polls before 2012.  They like everyone else voted that way to protect UND from sanctions as the aggressive media campaign said they should.  Even Hak said it.  

So F.off with your petty B.S. manipulations of that vote.  You know the truth!  The Sioux wanted and still want by majority to keep their name..

You're truly the worst kind of cancer to this whole situation.  The fact that anyone listens to your rhetoric is beyond me.

Easy pal, we are all in the same boat of this nickname situation, its just some of us are looking out for the future of the school which could include sanctions if there is no nickname. Let's not break out the name calling.