The New Nickname vs. No Nickname Debate Thread

[siouxfan512]

If "North Dakota" is going to be on the final list to be voted on, I don't think that it is too much for anyone to ask UND to provide a statement from the NCAA stating that having no nickname and just being North Dakota is a viable option moving forward.  Goehring, Kelley, the committee, etc seem so confident that it is still an option that it should be pretty easy for them to provide that information.  It's kind of the big elephant in the room.  One statement from the NCAA that supports their claim would clear everything up.  Why haven't we seen this?

 

Agreed, I think that would put the majority of this argument to rest. If "North Dakota" is acceptable, it will likely be the favorite. If "North Dakota" is not acceptable. Roughriders will likely be the favorite. But we should at least have all of the information, prior to a vote.

[dagies]

To start this, let me just say that in the long run I think UND is better off selecting an actual nickname rather than sticking with North Dakota.  That said, I can see just using "North Dakota" as a whole lot more attractive than 70% of the names on the final list.

 

Here's why I believe the NCAA will not fuss if North Dakota is chosen as the "nickname".

 

There's NO way Kelley would have allowed that option into the process if he didn't know the NCAA would allow it.   Simply wouldn't have.   

The next question that seems to hang in the air, and why we are continually arguing over whether the NCAA will or won't have a cow, is that Kelley WILL NOT confirm if the NCAA has been consulted on this.  And why wouldn't he?   Because if he came out right now and said "I've checked with the NCAA and they said selecting no nickname would satisfy the agreement" there would be such a groundswell that it would destroy the process of selecting an actual nickname.

 

I believe the powers that be at UND know that no nickname is acceptable.   But they feel, like the Sicatoka, that UND is much better off selecting a different moniker and moving on.   To try and encourage that end, they leave the idea out there that UND MUST select a actual nickname.

[tnt]

I think the solution is pretty simple, really.  It looks pretty clear that continuing with no nickname or adopting Roughriders are going to be the two most popular choices - since I believe there needs to be three for the voting process, pick a token third - not Cavalry, since that would really put the PC zealots in full hysteria and therefore will never be selected as an option for the voting process; not North Stars, since UND is not in Minnesota - so let's say Explorers.  Whatever receives the most votes gets adopted - if it is Roughriders, all the chicken littles will be able to breathe again - if it is no nickname, UND goes with that, and IF the NCAA has a problem with it, a respectable effort to bring their heavy-handed ways to full light should be undertaken.  If at the end of the day we are further forced into more abject PC stupidity, all should be content that the good fight has been fought and all that could be done has been done, and we can at that point effortlessly adopt the second most popular option, i.e. Roughriders.  This may cause the rabidly anti no-nickname crowd untold amounts of additional wailing and gnashing of teeth, but you know, I'm okay with that.

Was thinking the same thing.  Go with whatever wins, and if there is a problem, then it reverts to the next in line.

[nodakhoops]

I think the solution is pretty simple, really.  It looks pretty clear that continuing with no nickname or adopting Roughriders are going to be the two most popular choices - since I believe there needs to be three for the voting process, pick a token third - not Cavalry, since that would really put the PC zealots in full hysteria and therefore will never be selected as an option for the voting process; not North Stars, since UND is not in Minnesota - so let's say Explorers.  Whatever receives the most votes gets adopted - if it is Roughriders, all the chicken littles will be able to breathe again - if it is no nickname, UND goes with that, and IF the NCAA has a problem with it, a respectable effort to bring their heavy-handed ways to full light should be undertaken.  If at the end of the day we are further forced into more abject PC stupidity, all should be content that the good fight has been fought and all that could be done has been done, and we can at that point effortlessly adopt the second most popular option, i.e. Roughriders.  This may cause the rabidly anti no-nickname crowd untold amounts of additional wailing and gnashing of teeth, but you know, I'm okay with that.

 

Seems fair to me. I'd rather they give people options they want to vote on rather than Spirit Pride or Sundogs. 

[jdub27]

If "North Dakota" is going to be on the final list to be voted on, I don't think that it is too much for anyone to ask UND to provide a statement from the NCAA stating that having no nickname and just being North Dakota is a viable option moving forward.  Goehring, Kelley, the committee, etc seem so confident that it is still an option that it should be pretty easy for them to provide that information.  It's kind of the big elephant in the room.  One statement from the NCAA that supports their claim would clear everything up.  Why haven't we seen this?

 

One other point is that what is acceptable today is not always acceptable in the future.  The NCAA Executive Committee has the power to do as it pleases.  It isn't a real stretch to see the same outside groups continue to put pressure on UND if no nickname is the option selected, particularly since there is absolutely no doubt that it leaves Fighting Sioux as the de facto nickname.  Why even put yourself in that position?  This process has been a circus, I don't want to see Act 2.

[The Sicatoka]

First, please don't say "North Dakota". Please say "no nickname", because that's what it is. Semantics? Maybe. But "North Dakota" can not be the nickname as "Dakota" is a tribal name and open to sanction. A blank space (no nickname) is not a tribal name. (It's also not all that marketable, but that's for another day.) 

 

Secondly, we've heard some theories on why "North Dakota" is on that list. As dagies said, "Because if (Kelley) came out right now and said "I've checked with the NCAA and they said selecting no nickname would satisfy the agreement" there would be such a groundswell that it would destroy the process of selecting an actual nickname." That's one theory. An alternate theory of why no statement would be that by eliminating the no nickname option some quarters would be up in arms that the NCAA is sticking it to UND and forcing UND into something, again. 

[scpa0305]

First, please don't say "North Dakota". Please say "no nickname", because that's what it is. Semantics? Maybe. But "North Dakota" can not be the nickname as "Dakota" is a tribal name and open to sanction. A blank space (no nickname) is not a tribal name. (It's also not all that marketable, but that's for another day.) 

 

Secondly, we've heard some theories on why "North Dakota" is on that list. As dagies said, "Because if (Kelley) came out right now and said "I've checked with the NCAA and they said selecting no nickname would satisfy the agreement" there would be such a groundswell that it would destroy the process of selecting an actual nickname." That's one theory. An alternate theory of why no statement would be that by eliminating the no nickname option some quarters would be up in arms that the NCAA is sticking it to UND and forcing UND into something, again. 

Substance over form.

[jdub27]

First, please don't say "North Dakota". Please say "no nickname", because that's what it is.

 

Agree 100%.  Lay it out for what it is, saying you are picking "North Dakota"  is incorrect, that part is going to be there regardless of what happens going forward.  Be clear and state that you supporting the selection of "no nickname". 

 

Unless of course you want the University of North Dakota North Dakota but we've already went over how redundant that is. 

[The Sicatoka]

Substance over form.

 

Wasn't sure what you meant until I read the accountant's definition of the phrase: 

 

Substance over form is the concept that ... disclosures of a business should reflect the underlying realities ... 

 

The key point of the concept is that a transaction should not be recorded in such a manner as to hide the true intent of the transaction, which would mislead ...

 

 

Don't say "North Dakota", say "no nickname", because the underlying reality is no nickname.

 

Saying "North Dakota" is hiding the true intent (keep on saying the old nickname). 

[nodakhoops]

To follow up DamStraits post. Top 3 in some polls this morning. Two common names.

SS

1 Roughriders

2 North Dakota

3 cavalry

Herald

1 North Dakota

2 Roughriders

3 north stars

Forum

1 North Dakota

2 green Hawks

3 Roughriders

Bismarck tribune

1. North Dakota

2. Roughriders

Small amount of votes in the Bismarck one but those two names had 70% of the vote so it was pointless listing a third. Forum poll is only one that doesn't show numbers so that's tough to get a grasp of data.

[Oxbow6]

To follow up DamStraits post. Top 3 in some polls this morning. Two common names.

SS

1 Roughriders

2 North Dakota

3 cavalry

Herald

1 North Dakota

2 Roughriders

3 north stars

Forum

1 North Dakota

2 green Hawks

3 Roughriders

Bismarck tribune

1. North Dakota

2. Roughriders

Small amount of votes in the Bismarck one but those two names had 70% of the vote so it was pointless listing a third. Forum poll is only one that doesn't show numbers so that's tough to get a grasp of data.

Only ones in Fargo voting Green Hawks are SU supporters.

[siouxfan512]

First, please don't say "North Dakota". Please say "no nickname", because that's what it is. Semantics? Maybe. But "North Dakota" can not be the nickname as "Dakota" is a tribal name and open to sanction. A blank space (no nickname) is not a tribal name. (It's also not all that marketable, but that's for another day.)

Secondly, we've heard some theories on why "North Dakota" is on that list. As dagies said, "Because if (Kelley) came out right now and said "I've checked with the NCAA and they said selecting no nickname would satisfy the agreement" there would be such a groundswell that it would destroy the process of selecting an actual nickname." That's one theory. An alternate theory of why no statement would be that by eliminating the no nickname option some quarters would be up in arms that the NCAA is sticking it to UND and forcing UND into something, again.

It seems like we have two arguments here:

1. Do we pick a new name or have no nickname? Strong opinions on both sides of the argument, all of which are very understandable

2. Is no nickname an option? or would that leave us in violation of the agreement with the NCAA? This argument hinders the outcome our our first argument, and there is not one person on this message board who is not speculating on the actual answer, and can give a definitive truth to whether or not the NCAA would accept remaining just "University of North Dakota". As has been mentioned, the first thing this task force and President Kelley need to do is confirm with the NCAA whether or not North Dakota/No Nickname is an acceptable path. If they have already done so, they need to make it crystal clear to the public. This would clear the way to make a informed vote on our first argument.

-If the NCAA approves the use of remaining University of North Dakota, there will be much debate as to what we will be going forward and why. As I stated earlier both sides of this argument hold merit.

-If the NCAA does not approve the use of remaining University of North Dakota, we all save ourselves alot of debate and discussion and will likely move forward with Roughriders (based on the conscensus of these threads).

There are alot of strong and conflicting opinions on this website, but I do believe the vast majority are in the consencus that we do not want the intangible names. If Spirit, Pride, Blaze, Force are in the top 3 then this committee is not doing their job (A job which to an extent they have already not been doing).

[The Sicatoka]

Only ones in Fargo voting Green Hawks are SU supporters.

 

They're prepping for the "couldn't come up with anything original ... stole idea from the FM baseball team" shtick. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

By asking the NCAA anything, UND would be giving them power that they don't currently have.  If you're going to go the no nickname route, just do it.  That will put the ball squarely in the NCAA's court, at which time they can (1) do nothing, (2) sue for breach of contract (on dubious grounds), or (3) try to enact a new rule and figure out how to cram it down the membership's throats without a grandfather clause.  But for the sake of all that is holy, please don't act like you need their permission or consent.

[Cratter]

I don't wanna go through this whole process for "nothing."

[TBR]

I think the solution is pretty simple, really.  It looks pretty clear that continuing with no nickname or adopting Roughriders are going to be the two most popular choices - since I believe there needs to be three for the voting process, pick a token third - not Cavalry, since that would really put the PC zealots in full hysteria and therefore will never be selected as an option for the voting process; not North Stars, since UND is not in Minnesota - so let's say Explorers.  Whatever receives the most votes gets adopted - if it is Roughriders, all the chicken littles will be able to breathe again - if it is no nickname, UND goes with that, and IF the NCAA has a problem with it, a respectable effort to bring their heavy-handed ways to full light should be undertaken.  If at the end of the day we are further forced into more abject PC stupidity, all should be content that the good fight has been fought and all that could be done has been done, and we can at that point effortlessly adopt the second most popular option, i.e. Roughriders.  This may cause the rabidly anti no-nickname crowd untold amounts of additional wailing and gnashing of teeth, but you know, I'm okay with that.

That is a great post.

[darell1976]

Choose a "new" name. Having just ND is not a new name.

[Fetch]

Montana is good for nodak jokes - I remember the 1st one I ever heard - it was a old removable pop top from a beer can-on a piece of paper- behind a bar - that  read nodak nose picker 

[TBR]

One way forward that has already been suggested is to have no name officially with an informal secondary name in use such as thundering herd is for ndsu. I think it highly unlikely that the ncaa five years from now is going to determine that simply being north dakota is unacceptable if they do not object to no name now, especially with the precedence already set of already having gone without a name for the past three years. But Roughriders or Nodaks could be an informal name ready to be elevated to official sanction (as outlined by dam straight) if needed.

[nodakhoops]

Another way of looking at it TBR is if we actually have a nickname the people that want to just be North Dakota will still have the interlocking ND to use. That is our unofficial name already. In essence what we are doing now has always been the backup nickname/logo option. I would look at picking a nickname as the best of both worlds because we'll have more logo jersey shirt options for people that want to move on and those who want to stay in the past can wear their old Sioux stuff and buy interlocking new stuff.

We can unofficially be whatever we want but they don't put unofficial names on jerseys merchandise etc. if we are just ND the Sioux logo isnt coming back on anything new, we're stuck with the interlocking ND and whatever new updates they can do with having no nickname.

I can tell you what Scheels, Sioux shop UND bookstore etc prefer we do.

[Siouxperfan7]

This whole no nickname fiasco is just getting rediculous.  Watever reason you have for no nickname, that's fine.   UND needs a new nickname.  Adopting nothing and continueing like we are now is just a stupid option and should not even be considered.  If you hava problem with that, take your nookie and blankie and go cry home to your mommy.  Wa Wa Wa, we don't like any othe names, Fighting Sioux forever, North Dakota good enough for me, wa wa wa.  Seriously.  Time for everyone to realize that no nickname is the WRONG option moving forward with real consequences down the road.

[bigskyvikes]

This whole no nickname fiasco is just getting rediculous. Watever reason you have for no nickname, that's fine. UND needs a new nickname. Adopting nothing and continueing like we are now is just a stupid option and should not even be considered. If you hava problem with that, take your nookie and blankie and go cry home to your mommy. Wa Wa Wa, we don't like any othe names, Fighting Sioux forever, North Dakota good enough for me, wa wa wa. Seriously. Time for everyone to realize that no nickname is the WRONG option moving forward with real consequences down the road.

Lmao....OK?

[siouxfan512]

This whole no nickname fiasco is just getting rediculous.  Watever reason you have for no nickname, that's fine.   UND needs a new nickname.  Adopting nothing and continueing like we are now is just a stupid option and should not even be considered.  If you hava problem with that, take your nookie and blankie and go cry home to your mommy.  Wa Wa Wa, we don't like any othe names, Fighting Sioux forever, North Dakota good enough for me, wa wa wa.  Seriously.  Time for everyone to realize that no nickname is the WRONG option moving forward with real consequences down the road.

The point you fail to capture is that not everyone want to remain North Dakota because they wasn to be the unofficial Fighting Sioux. Sure there is a group of people that have that reasoning, but that same group of people will refer to UND as the Fighting Sioux regardless. A lot of us just prefer North Dakota over the other options that have been presented.

 

Now I'll admit that Roughriders and even Cavalry have grown on me, but I still don't love them. And I certainly prefer No Nickname over Spirit, Blaze, Pride, Sun Dogs, etc.

 

So when you are going to rant about something becoming ridiculous, check the rest of your jibberish at the door. Essentially, what you said was "if you have an opinion thats fine, but you're opinion is wrong so shut up". Ultimately the most ridiculous part was your comments.

 

As we have said before, first step should be for the university to confirm with the NCAA if North Dakota can be used, then publicly state it. That would alleviate alot of argument right there.

[jdub27]

The point you fail to capture is that not everyone want to remain North Dakota because they wasn to be the unofficial Fighting Sioux.

 

Not everyone, but the overwhelming majority and it isn't even close.  Read any set of Facebook comments or tweets related to the nickname issue, it is far and away the main reason why people are selecting "no nickname" and makes it very clear why "no nickname" is the current leader in the polls on the GF Herald/Forum websites and people's reasoning for it.

[Siouxperfan7]

The point you fail to capture is that not everyone want to remain North Dakota because they wasn to be the unofficial Fighting Sioux. Sure there is a group of people that have that reasoning, but that same group of people will refer to UND as the Fighting Sioux regardless. A lot of us just prefer North Dakota over the other options that have been presented.

 

Now I'll admit that Roughriders and even Cavalry have grown on me, but I still don't love them. And I certainly prefer No Nickname over Spirit, Blaze, Pride, Sun Dogs, etc.

 

So when you are going to rant about something becoming ridiculous, check the rest of your jibberish at the door. Essentially, what you said was "if you have an opinion thats fine, but you're opinion is wrong so shut up". Ultimately the most ridiculous part was your comments.

 

As we have said before, first step should be for the university to confirm with the NCAA if North Dakota can be used, then publicly state it. That would alleviate alot of argument right there.

 

Everyone has their right to their opinion.  Doesn't mean that every opinion is equally valid.  Concerns that have been brought up about having no nickname are more than just opinions.  They are real issues that need to be brought up.  Concerns with having  no nickname are nothing to be ignored.  They aren't scare tactics.  Just becuase the majority of people want no nickname, doesn't mean that it is the right thing for UND to choose to do.  Names have been dropped from consideration for WAY less than this.