Recruiting advantage.

[Teeder11]

Still think UND did not waste its share of the Challenge Fund. Sometimes Universities have to prioritize academics over athletics. Hark! I know that's blasphemes to say such a thing on here, but it's true.  Some Universities have a lot of exciting things going on academically and use this money to bolster those area, others are Johnny-Come-Latlies that apparently don't have much to support in the realm of academics, so they do what they've always done, rape academics for athletics, bulldoze forward and ask for forgiveness later.  I would say this is especially true at DSU and MSU, and look at the states of affairs at those two institutions.

[UNDBIZ]

Still think UND did not waste its share of the Challenge Fund. Sometimes Universities have to prioritize academics over athletics. Hark! I know that's blasphemes to say such a thing on here, but it's true. Some Universities have a lot of exciting things going on academically and use this money to bolster those area, others are Johnny-Come-Latlies that apparently don't have much to support in the realm of academics, so they do what they've always done, rape academics for athletics, bulldoze forward and ask for forgiveness later. I would say this is especially true at DSU and MSU, and look at the states of affairs at those two institutions.

Und most certainly did not waste the money. They used it for academics, as intended by the legislature.

[Hammersmith]

Wow is there a lot of lying going on in this thread. Did any of you actually read the entire Challenge bill or did you just stop at the first page? Did any of you actually read the entire list of Challenge grants from each school?

 

To me, it looks like the UND Foundation got greedy. They finished their own slice of pie and started eying the slice of the person sitting next to them. When the person sitting next to them finished eating their slice of pie just before the café closed, they got upset because they had planned to eat it off the plate just after the other person left.

 

Because UND's fundraising campaign was in full swing when the Challenge Grants were created, UND used up a big chunk of their money right away. There were a bunch of applications in Dec 2013 and more throughout the first half of 2014. By the end of 2014, UND had requested about $8.8M of their $10M. During the last two months(Nov & Dec 2014), UND put in requests for the final $1.2M.

 

In NDSU's case, they didn't have a major fundraising campaign going on, so the donations came in slower. NDSU didn't have any 2013 requests, and only a moderate amount of requests during the first half of 2014(about $2M worth). But the second half of 2014 came with a flood of requests. About another $2M in the late summer and fall. And Dec 2014 brought in about $4.5M. The last $450k was requested just after the first of the year. Personally, I think some of the reason for the lateness was due to the leadership problems in the NDSU Development Foundation. I know the $3M + $1.5M donation by Doosan/Bobcat was in the works long before the end of 2014, but the actual donation was held until the last minute and the announcement was delayed even more until Mayo's resignation was announced. Still, of the six athletic scholarship requests, none were part of the January request. So to say NDSU needed the athletic scholarships to fill out the last of the grant money is incorrect at best, lying at worst.

 

But I think the UND Development Foundation was watching the NDSU requests and thought NDSU was going to leave about $5M on the table. According to the Challenge bill, UND could have put in requests for that money. By NDSU coming in at the 11th hour with requests covering the entire amount, I bet some hopes were dashed quite rudely. It gives the comments coming from DCZ a real sour grapes feel.

 

 

In any case, grant money going to athletic scholarships at NDSU amounted to $0.15M. That means $9.85M went to non-athletic areas. (going by the names of the scholarship funds)

[nodakhoops]

I gotta think UND would've used the money for athletic scholarships if they thought they could. Otherwise why would UND be the ones asking about it? Plus it was 10 million, they could've said here's 1-2 million for athletic scholarships and the other 8-9 million is for academics. I just don't see why UND would care unless they would've also raised funds for athletics. Plus I think with the money the foundation has been given/raising lately for the Engineering, Aerospace, Business, Law, and Medical school 1-2 million for athletic scholarships would've been fine.

 

I get around the state and region a lot and NDSU is killing UND in PR right now across ND and the Twin Cities because of football and basketball. There is no reason their enrollment should be close to UNDs when you consider how much better UND is academically and the reason is because of FB and BB. 10 million in academics is awesome, but so is 4 NCs, 2 ESPN Gamedays, and 2 NCAA tourney appearances. Not saying the challenge grant is the reason for that, but I can't help but feel like it's a microcosm of why they are where they are and UND is playing catch up. 

 

If NDSU, MSU, and DSU get that money taken away for athletics hats off to UND for following the rules, and if not they still got 10 million for academics so either way great job UND. It just seemed to me like they would've fundraised for athletics if they thought they could and other schools getting away with it is disappointing. I'll leave it at that

[UND-1]

Wow is there a lot of lying going on in this thread. Did any of you actually read the entire Challenge bill or did you just stop at the first page? Did any of you actually read the entire list of Challenge grants from each school?

 

To me, it looks like the UND Foundation got greedy. They finished their own slice of pie and started eying the slice of the person sitting next to them. When the person sitting next to them finished eating their slice of pie just before the café closed, they got upset because they had planned to eat it off the plate just after the other person left.

 

Because UND's fundraising campaign was in full swing when the Challenge Grants were created, UND used up a big chunk of their money right away. There were a bunch of applications in Dec 2013 and more throughout the first half of 2014. By the end of 2014, UND had requested about $8.8M of their $10M. During the last two months(Nov & Dec 2014), UND put in requests for the final $1.2M.

 

In NDSU's case, they didn't have a major fundraising campaign going on, so the donations came in slower. NDSU didn't have any 2013 requests, and only a moderate amount of requests during the first half of 2014(about $2M worth). But the second half of 2014 came with a flood of requests. About another $2M in the late summer and fall. And Dec 2014 brought in about $4.5M. The last $450k was requested just after the first of the year. Personally, I think some of the reason for the lateness was due to the leadership problems in the NDSU Development Foundation. I know the $3M + $1.5M donation by Doosan/Bobcat was in the works long before the end of 2014, but the actual donation was held until the last minute and the announcement was delayed even more until Mayo's resignation was announced. Still, of the six athletic scholarship requests, none were part of the January request. So to say NDSU needed the athletic scholarships to fill out the last of the grant money is incorrect at best, lying at worst.

 

But I think the UND Development Foundation was watching the NDSU requests and thought NDSU was going to leave about $5M on the table. According to the Challenge bill, UND could have put in requests for that money. By NDSU coming in at the 11th hour with requests covering the entire amount, I bet some hopes were dashed quite rudely. It gives the comments coming from DCZ a real sour grapes feel.

 

 

In any case, grant money going to athletic scholarships at NDSU amounted to $0.15M. That means $9.85M went to non-athletic areas. (going by the names of the scholarship funds)

 

You basically summarized everything that was already pointed out, but calling it a lie due to slight timing issues.  Also, of course the other schools were ready to pounce on the left over money, somebody had to use it up.  

 

Don't you think UND might have slipped in a few "student-athlete" donations had they not been verbally told, "these are not for athletic related donations"?  They have scholarship issues, too.

[SiouxVolley]

Wow is there a lot of lying going on in this thread. Did any of you actually read the entire Challenge bill or did you just stop at the first page? Did any of you actually read the entire list of Challenge grants from each school?

To me, it looks like the UND Foundation got greedy. They finished their own slice of pie and started eying the slice of the person sitting next to them. When the person sitting next to them finished eating their slice of pie just before the café closed, they got upset because they had planned to eat it off the plate just after the other person left.

Because UND's fundraising campaign was in full swing when the Challenge Grants were created, UND used up a big chunk of their money right away. There were a bunch of applications in Dec 2013 and more throughout the first half of 2014. By the end of 2014, UND had requested about $8.8M of their $10M. During the last two months(Nov & Dec 2014), UND put in requests for the final $1.2M.

In NDSU's case, they didn't have a major fundraising campaign going on, so the donations came in slower. NDSU didn't have any 2013 requests, and only a moderate amount of requests during the first half of 2014(about $2M worth). But the second half of 2014 came with a flood of requests. About another $2M in the late summer and fall. And Dec 2014 brought in about $4.5M. The last $450k was requested just after the first of the year. Personally, I think some of the reason for the lateness was due to the leadership problems in the NDSU Development Foundation. I know the $3M + $1.5M donation by Doosan/Bobcat was in the works long before the end of 2014, but the actual donation was held until the last minute and the announcement was delayed even more until Mayo's resignation was announced. Still, of the six athletic scholarship requests, none were part of the January request. So to say NDSU needed the athletic scholarships to fill out the last of the grant money is incorrect at best, lying at worst.

But I think the UND Development Foundation was watching the NDSU requests and thought NDSU was going to leave about $5M on the table. According to the Challenge bill, UND could have put in requests for that money. By NDSU coming in at the 11th hour with requests covering the entire amount, I bet some hopes were dashed quite rudely. It gives the comments coming from DCZ a real sour grapes feel.

In any case, grant money going to athletic scholarships at NDSU amounted to $0.15M. That means $9.85M went to non-athletic areas. (going by the names of the scholarship funds)

Quite the conspiracy theory by an NDSU fan.

The NDSU Foundation and Alumni board has been in disarray for a year. Its board came up with a way to have athletic scholarships matched because its board was so f**** up that they couldn't do anything right. NDSU almost lost free money. Shame on them. NDSUs Foundation was so srewed up this year that nobody in their right mind would give money to that circus. Athletic scholarships were the only place getting money. Wrigley did a favor for NDSU because, otherwise they would have lost "free" money.

DCZ was just clarifying that it wasn't illegal and UND could do the same in the future. The precedent has been set.

[homer]

I gotta think UND would've used the money for athletic scholarships if they thought they could. Otherwise why would UND be the ones asking about it? Plus it was 10 million, they could've said here's 1-2 million for athletic scholarships and the other 8-9 million is for academics. I just don't see why UND would care unless they would've also raised funds for athletics. Plus I think with the money the foundation has been given/raising lately for the Engineering, Aerospace, Business, Law, and Medical school 1-2 million for athletic scholarships would've been fine.

I get around the state and region a lot and NDSU is killing UND in PR right now across ND and the Twin Cities because of football and basketball. There is no reason their enrollment should be close to UNDs when you consider how much better UND is academically and the reason is because of FB and BB. 10 million in academics is awesome, but so is 4 NCs, 2 ESPN Gamedays, and 2 NCAA tourney appearances. Not saying the challenge grant is the reason for that, but I can't help but feel like it's a microcosm of why they are where they are and UND is playing catch up.

If NDSU, MSU, and DSU get that money taken away for athletics hats off to UND for following the rules, and if not they still got 10 million for academics so either way great job UND. It just seemed to me like they would've fundraised for athletics if they thought they could and other schools getting away with it is disappointing. I'll leave it at that

So we are in agreement they are athletic scholarships?

[Siouxphan27]

Based on posts in the last 24 hours of wanting to quell any talk of improving the men's basketball teams coaching staff, and then wishing upon a star UND was in the better Summit and MVFC conferences, and now defending ndsu's clear misuse of funding intended for academics....I feel I gotta ask you, nodakhoops.....

 

What color is your underwear?

[The Sicatoka]

1. Rob Port is somewhere between useful idiot and willing accomplice in Sen. Al Carlson's campaign to have the Legislature dismantle the State Board of Higher Ed and make the universities purely political pawns.

2. I don't care who you are: If you see someone about to leave money on the table and you can legitimately scoop up the money left behind ... YOU DO. To claim otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

2a. NDSU's fundraising arm was a dumpster fire, and I suspect it's still smoldering as it takes a while to clean up a mess like they had. They probably weren't well prepared for that State program. But unprepared or not, those "rules" are codefied as State Law. I'm not sure Lt. Gov. Wrigley can make that judgement call; I'm not sure that it's within his power, committee chair or not. State Law opinion and review normally happens through the AG's office or the courts.

[nodakhoops]

I am a Kelly Green and White guy in a big way. Guess i don't know how being supportive of the current basketball team, thinking I would like the Summit/MVFC conference better (def. not the only UND fan that thinks that), and wishing UND would've raised money from the challenge grants for athletic scholarships because others did would put me on the NDSU side of things?  

[homer]

My follow up question to Wrigley stating he is not sure if these "athletic scholarships" are given based on academics or athletics-

Are you serious?

How dumb does this guy think people are? How dumb do our state leaders think the people are?

[The Sicatoka]

I am a Kelly Green and White guy in a big way. Guess i don't know how being supportive of the current basketball team, thinking I would like the Summit/MVFC conference better (def. not the only UND fan that thinks that), and wishing UND would've raised money from the challenge grants for athletic scholarships because others did would put me on the NDSU side of things?

UND got all $10 million alloted to it. And it all went to academic endeavours. That's how the bill was written. I'm happy UND was able to do that.

[Siouxphan27]

I am a Kelly Green and White guy in a big way. Guess i don't know how being supportive of the current basketball team, thinking I would like the Summit/MVFC conference better (def. not the only UND fan that thinks that), and wishing UND would've raised money from the challenge grants for athletic scholarships because others did would put me on the NDSU side of things?  

 

Fair enough, I just had to ask.    I don't understand why you're wishing UND would've raised money for the grants designated towards athletic scholarships.... because the letter of the bill said it was designated for Academic funding.    

 

Are nerds benching 95lbs. and running a 6.7 40 getting academic scholarships to play football at Minot, Dickinson, and ndsu now?   If so that's news to me.     

[jdub27]

There are legislators that were caught off guard by this as well and are requesting clarification. Their understanding is that athletics were not allowed in any fashion, it was too be strictly academics (but keep spinning). There will likely be more review on it next month before funds are given out.

As for the dollar amount, didn't Brescani threaten to shut down a school owned child care center over something like $100K when he was pleading poverty a few years back? Nice to see he's gotten things straightened out and clearly is funded at a level where he can divert almost half a million to athletics instead of academics.

[82SiouxGuy]

Does this sound like it was intended for supporting athletic scholarships?

 

 

SECTION 6.

A new section to chapter 15-10 of the North Dakota Century Code is created and

enacted as follows:

Definition.

For purposes of this Act, projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics

include investments in research, scholarship, technology, endowed chairs, and investments in

educational infrastructure, not to include new capital construction projects.

 

[niouxsiouxfan]

Does this sound like it was intended for supporting athletic scholarships?

That section doesn't deny athletic scholarships.

And isn't the saying "ask for forgiveness later?"

I know NDSU can easily plead stupid and we would believe it, but maybe it just opened new scholarship money for our athletic department.

[Siouxphan27]

That section doesn't deny athletic scholarships.

And isn't the saying "ask for forgiveness later?"

I know NDSU can easily plead stupid and we would believe it, but maybe it just opened new scholarship money for our athletic department.

"projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics, including...."

 

How do you interpret this as having anything to do with athletics?

[82SiouxGuy]

That section doesn't deny athletic scholarships.

And isn't the saying "ask for forgiveness later?"

I know NDSU can easily plead stupid and we would believe it, but maybe it just opened new scholarship money for our athletic department.

And maybe it will provide a convenient excuse for the Legislature to not fund the program this session.  Because of the low oil prices they are looking for programs to cut.

 

Have you ever heard of anyone using enhanced academics in the same sentence as athletic department?

[Feff]

 

I gotta think UND would've used the money for athletic scholarships if they thought they could. Otherwise why would UND be the ones asking about it? Plus it was 10 million, they could've said here's 1-2 million for athletic scholarships and the other 8-9 million is for academics. I just don't see why UND would care unless they would've also raised funds for athletics. Plus I think with the money the foundation has been given/raising lately for the Engineering, Aerospace, Business, Law, and Medical school 1-2 million for athletic scholarships would've been fine.

 

I get around the state and region a lot and NDSU is killing UND in PR right now across ND and the Twin Cities because of football and basketball. There is no reason their enrollment should be close to UNDs when you consider how much better UND is academically and the reason is because of FB and BB. 10 million in academics is awesome, but so is 4 NCs, 2 ESPN Gamedays, and 2 NCAA tourney appearances. Not saying the challenge grant is the reason for that, but I can't help but feel like it's a microcosm of why they are where they are and UND is playing catch up. 

 

If NDSU, MSU, and DSU get that money taken away for athletics hats off to UND for following the rules, and if not they still got 10 million for academics so either way great job UND. It just seemed to me like they would've fundraised for athletics if they thought they could and other schools getting away with it is disappointing. I'll leave it at that

 

 

"Say Billy, where would you like to go to college?" 

"Gee Dad, I don't know, let's consider my options. There is this school called UND that I could go learn to fly planes at, or there is this school called NDSU that has won some football games. I think I'm gonna choose NDSU cause ESPN is the cool!" 

Right....

[homer]

One just has to take a look at the list if donations that were used to get the additional funding. They are tagged- basketball, athletic and football. No where on that list does it say academic endowments.

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/news/dsu/3679345-6-athletic-scholarships-funded-program-academic-scholarships

So if Wrigley really needs to question whether these were awarded based on athletics or academics he should look at scholarships used to claim the money at the three schools.

[jdub27]

Does this sound like it was intended for supporting athletic scholarships?

 

 

SECTION 6.

A new section to chapter 15-10 of the North Dakota Century Code is created and enacted as follows:

 

Definition.

For purposes of this Act, projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics include investments in research, scholarship, technology, endowed chairs, and investments in educational infrastructure, not to include new capital construction projects.

 

Well yeah, but like the geniuses from Fargo University said, did you read the bill??  I suppose it doesn't explicitly say "YOU CAN'T USE THIS FOR ATHLETICS," it just specifically mentions academics and then follows that by giving the examples of what it was meant for.   

[North Dakota]

I don't how athletic scholarships are differentiated by academic scholarships in the legalize sense but IMO the money is still going to fund a students education. After all even athletes are students first and foremost. All of this uproar over $150,000 out of $10M? 

[Siouxperfan7]

Sorry to dumb this down, but the money was to be used for academic scholorships.  NDSU and others used it for athletic scholorships.  So not sure how anyone can defend NDSU and others with their actions here. 

[The Sicatoka]

... projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics ...

 

 

"We're bringing in that top-rated freshman recruit at center* because we're sure they'll be able to improve the quality of scholarly research in the physics department."

 

 

*BB, hockey, or FB

[UND-FB-FAN]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3679385-six-ndsu-athletic-scholarships-funded-program-set-academic-scholarships

Lt. Gov. Wrigley defends use of academic grants as athletic scholarships. If the bill is renewed, UND football better be the first in line to up their scholarship dollars.