UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 With all due respect what does this accomplish? At some point the offense has to put a drive together, which will require getting multilpe first downs, to score some points. "Draining the clock" as you state does nothing other than stick the D back on the field quickly. If you want to drain the clock and possibly get points, first downs are must. We might hit a big play on occasion but at some point you can't continually go 3 and out. By playing that way, you're protecting your defense. Occasionally it might lead to three and outs, but when that ball-control mindset works, it runs the clock, wears out the opponent's defense, and rests your own defense. It's the intent behind the strategy, not the direct results that must be taken into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Late in game with lead ... Mussman era: Get ball Attempt three passes (all incomplete) Net effect: run about 18 seconds from the clock Punt Ball control era: Get ball Attempt at least two runs Decision for other down (run or pass); assume incomplete for worst case Net effect: run about 90 to 110 seconds from the clock Punt If you get first down -- repeat. Net effect: run about two minutes per first down from the clock plus the 90 or so seconds of a three-and-out. Some of you don't see the difference between "Mussman" and a "rush three-and-out", but it's there and it's huge ... especially if you have the lead. Burning clock with the lead only puts more pressure on the opponent offense when they do get the ball because they're not sure when they'll see it again. If you actually do pop a couple first downs rushing, the collar only gets tighter on the other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 By playing that way, you're protecting your defense. Occasionally it might lead to three and outs, but when that ball-control mindset works, it runs the clock, wears out the opponent's defense, and rests your own defense. It's the intent behind the strategy, not the direct results that must be taken into consideration. You have to get some first downs to change field position. You can't keep having the other team start at the 35-40 yard line and your own offense starting inside the 20 yard line and going 3 and out. Just running the ball is pointless if you can't move it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm not sure how much time a team can drain from the clock by consistently running 3 plays and then punting all game long. Am I missing something with this "strategy"? That's never the strategy. It may be the result, but the strategy/intent is to MOVE the ball on the ground and hit big plays with PA. If you can't move the ball on the ground, it shuts down everything (including the passing game for those TV buffs who love offense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You have to get some first downs to change field position. You can't keep having the other team start at the 35-40 yard line and your own offense starting inside the 20 yard line and going 3 and out. Just running the ball is pointless if you can't move it. Again, between running the ball three and out and passing the ball for three incompletions or an interception, the former is always the better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 By playing that way, you're protecting your defense. Occasionally it might lead to three and outs, but when that ball-control mindset works, it runs the clock, wears out the opponent's defense, and rests your own defense. It's the intent behind the strategy, not the direct results that must be taken into consideration. You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the eternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and out 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the enternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple What people don't understand, including possibly yourself, is that there are no other alternatives. The geniuses on this board believe just dropping back and passing all day would be an instant fix. The actual reality check is the staff wants to implement a system that may start slow perhaps, but with time it will grow. The way the offense is operating right now is best for the defense which is the strength of the team as of right now. Get use to it, because with Bubba the defense will always be the strength of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibleedgreen Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the eternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple. Its the ol' Mussman offensive strategy. Playing not to lose rather than playing to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Its the ol' Mussman offensive strategy. Playing not to lose rather than playing to win. This................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I think it is important to note that Stony Brook does have a very strong defense and I know there are those who think "what is a Stony Brook" but the fact remains they will have one of the better defenses in the CAA. They probably won't have a stellar record this year since their offense seems to be worse than even ours. I agree that even though we have had a slow start on offense it will improve. It must be quite the transition from a #Chuckthepigskin offense to a ball control offense. This stuff takes time. Plus- After four games I never thought we would be 2-2. The sky is not falling people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Plus- After four games I never thought we would be 2-2. The sky is not falling people. You must be in the minority then because going back to the San Jose State predictions, it would seem a lot of folks expected 3-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 What people don't understand, including possibly yourself, is that there are no other alternatives. The geniuses on this board believe just dropping back and passing all day would be an instant fix. The actual reality check is the staff wants to implement a system that may start slow perhaps, but with time it will grow. The way the offense is operating right now is best for the defense which is the strength of the team as of right now. Get use to it, because with Bubba the defense will always be the strength of the team. No alternatives? Play action on first down? Play action on 2nd down? Quick 3 step drop on first or second down? Screen pass or bubble pass? Off tackle on first and second down every series setting up 3rd and long has provided this offense with what? You are right...obviously I don't understand. It will be interesting to see what happens on both sides of the ball the next 2 Saturdays. Gotta go......Irish wants a rematch in Madden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the eternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and out 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple. The way the defense was dominating made it easier for the staff to say we are just going to run the ball, take time off the clock and win the game. Each time they ran the ball three plays, 1.5 to 2 minutes came off the clock. Also, with how inept the offense was there was absolutely no sense in throwing the ball and getting it tipped, picked off, or suffer a blind side sack to change the game. The offense was horrible in the second half. But, you cannot argue with the strategy because it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 No alternatives? Play action on first down? Play action on 2nd down? Quick 3 step drop on first or second down? Screen pass or bubble pass? Off tackle on first and second down every series setting up 3rd and long has provided this offense with what? You are right...obviously I don't understand. Gotta go......Irish wants a rematch in Madden. You would you run "play-action" up 13-3 in 4th quarter over a team with a defensive line that is WAY better than your offensive line? I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy1124 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the eternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and out 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple. Agreed, we need 12-15 1st downs resulting in some points or we'll get lit up. I don't want to air it out, but a message to Rudolph, show us some signs of life........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 You must be in the minority then because going back to the San Jose State predictions, it would seem a lot of folks expected 3-1. I thought 1-3 was realistic but after the past couple seasons i have tempered my enthusiasm a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy1124 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 One more thing to point out. Schmitty and Bubba have played Missouri State the past 5-6 years or whatever the year count. They knew how to defend them. This will be the 1st test against Big Sky tempo and speed. It's one thing to have played games against it, Missouri State, but it's another thing to project off of film to try to defend against it......if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 A lot of pessimism right now, which is fine for the offense, but the defense and TEAM have all exceeded or matched expectations thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 No alternatives? Play action on first down? Play action on 2nd down? Quick 3 step drop on first or second down? Screen pass or bubble pass? Off tackle on first and second down every series setting up 3rd and long has provided this offense with what? You are right...obviously I don't understand. It will be interesting to see what happens on both sides of the ball the next 2 Saturdays. Gotta go......Irish wants a rematch in Madden. The promblem is that you do not or will not see the big picture. It's is the entire philosophy that has been implemented. You may not like it and it isn't working well from an offensive standpoint, but we would be 0-4 if we had been trying to chuck it around on first down. The QB/WR play isn't consistent enough to try throwing the ball much more which would lead to turnover and more time for the opposing offenses to attack a defense that has played well this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Its the ol' Mussman offensive strategy. Playing not to lose rather than playing to win. The stategy is for the defense to win you games while the offense doesn't hurt you and gets enough done to win. It's the first year and frankly the offense is disappointing but not surprising and the defense has exceeded my expectation by a long shot. I still think we are two years from competing at the top of the big sky and that is if everything goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 The promblem is that you do not or will not see the big picture. It's is the entire philosophy that has been implemented. You may not like it and it isn't working well from an offensive standpoint, but we would be 0-4 if we had been trying to chuck it around on first down. The QB/WR play isn't consistent enough to try throwing the ball much more which would lead to turnover and more time for the opposing offenses to attack a defense that has played well this year. Exactly. These coaches know how to draw things up just as well as anyone else; creativity is not an issue. The offense that the coaches are implementing is best for the team, which is now a defense-led unit. It may be slow at times, but if it prevents turnovers and increases time of possession, it will lead to more wins than most expect. Everyone needs to embrace the defense; it's the new future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Exactly. These coaches know how to draw things up just as well as anyone else; creativity is not an issue. The offense that the coaches are implementing is best for the team, which is now a defense-led unit. It may be slow at times, but if it prevents turnovers and increases time of possession, it will lead to more wins than most expect. Everyone needs to embrace the defense; it's the new future. The defense is playing better but they are going to get lit up a few times here. We know that because everyone's defense is getting litup by EWU and MSU. Its the other games where the defense needs to show up. Hold down Montana, Portland State, Southern Utah, NAU. Those are the games where the opponent's offense's are just OK and the defense has to step up big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 With respect to "pound the rock" devotees, some balance on offense is what you need in BSC play. Three yards and a cloud of dust is a tough way to play catch up, and teams like MSU look capable of putting 14 points on the board before the end of pregame warm ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 With respect to "pound the rock" devotees, some balance on offense is what you need in BSC play. Three yards and a cloud of dust is a tough way to play catch up, and teams like MSU look capable of putting 14 points on the board before the end of pregame warm ups. Once again, was UND playing "catchup" against Stony Brook? No, Stony Brook was, hence the play-calling. Pretty sure the coaches wouldn't run up the middle three times if they are losing by 14 points. Also, remember the Missouri State game when UND was losing by 20 or 30 points? How did the passing game look when we were trying to play catchup? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 With respect to "pound the rock" devotees, some balance on offense is what you need in BSC play. Three yards and a cloud of dust is a tough way to play catch up, and teams like MSU look capable of putting 14 points on the board before the end of pregame warm ups. When we have better players and consistency they will open up the offense some, but it doesn't make sense until you can actually execute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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