Hardee Placed on Leave

[SiouxFan100]

su has been very successful with the correct choice they made moving to DI. Congrats! Pretty amazing actually. What I find curious is, after all this time of "UND is no longer our rival", the amount of hurt and resentment many of them still have with UND. Can anybody explain why this is so? What drives so much anger from otherwise seemingly intelligent nice fun to be around people?

[Siouxperman8]

I think it was either around 5:05 a.m. last Sunday, sometime in June of 2012 or when you created/joioned in the creation of that superior hockey conference you are now in. How is your team doing this year anyway?!

Charlie - did someone hijack your account? I have always enjoyed your comments on here as they were pretty well thought out but this thread has pretty much degenerated into a peeing match.

To answer your question - UND hockey isn't doing very well this year but I think you knew that.

If you remember right the Big Ten teams pulled out of the WCHA. The word is that UND left because the smaller budget schools generally vote together to limit spending and scholarships. They were outvoted with MN and Sconny still in the conf but the balance shifted when they left. The worry was that it would hurt UND in recruiting and level of play in the long run.

If that sounds familiar it is the same reason NDSU gave for wanting to leave DII for DI.

[Sioux-cia]

su has been very successful with the correct choice they made moving to DI. Congrats! Pretty amazing actually. What I find curious is, after all this time of "UND is no longer our rival", the amount of hurt and resentment many of them still have with UND. Can anybody explain why this is so? What drives so much anger from otherwise seemingly intelligent nice fun to be around people?

Because

"we are better and more important than everyone"

and they know it!

[petey23]

If an NDSU coach had a DUI, and it didn't make it to the media, it would be a . . . "Miracle".

On the other handed it would be a big deal at NDSU, where there is no belief that our admin is entitled. Your admin believes they are entitled to that protection, because they are gFU.

Umm. Chapman used to be the President of the college you root for. This is like the biggest black pot in the world calling a kettle black.

The gFU thing must be cute on bisonville....if I remember it was the rinky dink summit league that brought that on.

[Sioux-cia]

At this point I am certainly not going to condemn Faison for anything. A mistake was made but it certainly seems like Faison is not afraid to make a tough decision when necessary or warranted.

I agree...AND, he did it pretty damn quick!

[petey23]

Ndsu has the 15 year old girl "Why is everybody picking on me? I never do anything wrong and still nobody likes me. I'm a great person but nobody else will admit it" mentality.

Jan

[petey23]

While I disagree, and can say I'd rather have that mentality then the elitist "we are better and more important than everyone" mentality that is UND fans.

meet Marcia!

[petey23]

I think it was either around 5:05 a.m. last Sunday, sometime in June of 2012 or when you created/joioned in the creation of that superior hockey conference you are now in. How is your team doing this year anyway?!

Our team Charlie, our team!

[UND1983]

Charlie - did someone hijack your account? I have always enjoyed your comments on here as they were pretty well thought out but this thread has pretty much degenerated into a peeing match.

To answer your question - UND hockey isn't doing very well this year but I think you knew that.

If you remember right the Big Ten teams pulled out of the WCHA. The word is that UND left because the smaller budget schools generally vote together to limit spending and scholarships. They were outvoted with MN and Sconny still in the conf but the balance shifted when they left. The worry was that it would hurt UND in recruiting and level of play in the long run.

If that sounds familiar it is the same reason NDSU gave for wanting to leave DII for DI.

Eventually true colors come out. Much like Wyo and his 'saying one thing here and the opposite on BV'. Is what it is.

[CAS4127]

Charlie - did someone hijack your account? I have always enjoyed your comments on here as they were pretty well thought out but this thread has pretty much degenerated into a peeing match.

To answer your question - UND hockey isn't doing very well this year but I think you knew that.

If you remember right the Big Ten teams pulled out of the WCHA. The word is that UND left because the smaller budget schools generally vote together to limit spending and scholarships. They were outvoted with MN and Sconny still in the conf but the balance shifted when they left. The worry was that it would hurt UND in recruiting and level of play in the long run.

If that sounds familiar it is the same reason NDSU gave for wanting to leave DII for DI.

Ya, I knew about the hockey record and the reason for the conference move. Just a rub there by me.

To otherwise respond, I guess last night I just felt like many hear were trying to justify things when, in reality, major (IMO) mistakes were made by Faison, and he made decisions/statements that would get hammered on by many here and the media had he been Gene Taylor. I just think many refuse to believe that every school and every player is capable of making mistakes, and, likewise, is not beyond criticism. Also, I was (and still am) sensing some major hypocrisy, and I think that is BS!!

Lastly, I was kinda in a pissy mood last night, as I had both my knee and shoulder operated on last Wednesday, and my dang pain killers were not doing thier job for some reason beyond my ability to understand, and I was not about to take more than recomended. Consequently, I woke up and started meandering the interwebs, and you see the result of that. Then, people started accusing me of drunk posting, and I got even a bit more angry. Sometimes it's better if one's phone just goes dead at that point, but mine didn't.

That said tho, I still hold many of the same thoughts I posted, but perhaps not in as angry a manner as I came across.

[Siouxperman8]

Ya, I knew about the hockey record and the reason for the conference move. Just a rub there by me.

To otherwise respond, I guess last night I just felt like many hear were trying to justify things when, in reality, major (IMO) mistakes were made by Faison, and he made decisions/statements that would get hammered on by many here and the media had he been Gene Taylor. I just think many refuse to believe that every school and every player is capable of making mistakes, and, likewise, is not beyond criticism. Also, I was (and still am) sensing some major hypocrisy, and I think that is BS!!

Lastly, I was kinda in a pissy mood last night, as I had both my knee and shoulder operated on last Wednesday, and my dang pain killers were not doing thier job for some reason beyond my ability to understand, and I was not about to take more than recomended. Consequently, I woke up and started meandering the interwebs, and you see the result of that. Then, people started accusing me of drunk posting, and I got even a bit more angry. Sometimes it's better if one's phone just goes dead at that point, but mine didn't.

That said tho, I still hold many of the same thoughts I posted, but perhaps not in as angry a manner as I came across.

Understand. The only thing I still question is the thought that there was a coverup regarding Hardee's prior DUI. There are two ways it gets out:

• it is found on a police record somewhere and reported by the media. Somebody on here said that it was in a municipal court so it wasn't widely available. I don't know the specifics of how that works but it sounds reasonable. Maybe the media saw it and didn't report it but it is plausible that nobody ever knew it existed.
  
• the other is that Faison/UND would report it once they were aware of it. I don't think they have an obligation to report that to the media or should. Do you?
  

[Sioux-cia]

CAS4127, I didn't see any posts defending Hardee's actions. Initially, when the facts were not before us, people were speculating, not defending. Then as the info came out, you and yours started calling for his head, crying cover up, and comparing your admin/athletes shinanigans to ours (no comparison, in my green tinted world, yours are far worse) and we started the war of words. We don't have all the facts on Faison's actions in 2012 other than the warning 'if it happens again.....'. We don't know there wasn't a written reprimand, as this is a state employer/employee relationship, I'm willing to bet it is in writing.

Putting that all aside, this is a UND site, you want to hear about how bad we are go to BV where the cow shat don't stink, according to all the MooU posters I've read on SiouxSports.com

[CAS4127]

Understand. The only thing I still question is the thought that there was a coverup regarding Hardee's prior DUI. There are two ways it gets out:

• it is found on a police record somewhere and reported by the media. Somebody on here said that it was in a municipal court so it wasn't widely available. I don't know the specifics of how that works but it sounds reasonable. Maybe the media saw it and didn't report it but it is plausible that nobody ever knew it existed.
  
• the other is that Faison/UND would report it once they were aware of it. I don't think they have an obligation to report that to the media or should. Do you?
  

Perhaps Faison is not duty-bouind to disclose what the media doesn't uncover, although I believe as the AD he should at least feel he should. Also, his actual handling of the DUI, in terms of ensuring Hardee did all that was necessary to get reinstated, and requiring hard proof from Hardee, is not defensible. He dropped the ball big time, and, resultantly, UND has had a HWVC driving illegally for a year and a half or so. It's like he didn't think it was a big deal, when in fact it was and is. Also, and I believe this firmly, had Gene Taylor done the same, both people here and the media would be all over it and asking a lot more questions than what are being asked now =>hypocrisy.

CAS4127, I didn't see any posts defending Hardee's actions. Initially, when the facts were not before us, people were speculating, not defending. Then as the info came out, you and yours started calling for his head, crying cover up, and comparing your admin/athletes shinanigans to ours (no comparison, in my green tinted world, yours are far worse) and we started the war of words. We don't have all the facts on Faison's actions in 2012 other than the warning 'if it happens again.....'. We don't know there wasn't a written reprimand, as this is a state employer/employee relationship, I'm willing to bet it is in writing.

Putting that all aside, this is a UND site, you want to hear about how bad we are go to BV where the cow shat don't stink, according to all the MooU posters I've read on SiouxSports.com

As for the reprimand being in writing, Faison said Hardee was given a verbal warning" Can a verbal warning be "documented"? Absolutely, but was it? Keep in mind that Hardee received a contract extension shorty after getting the DUI. That doesn't pass the smell test of Faison being serious with the "verbal warning". Was it given with a "wink-wink" or something. Heck, Hardee would likely have not yet even accomplished obtaining a CD eval by the time of the extension. That can be found out ... you know .. if someone really wanted to check into it.

[UND Fan]

Would it be possible to move the pissing match about UND/NDSU to a different thread to keep this one actually on topic?

Fully agree - this crap is getting old!!!

[Sioux-cia]

As for the reprimand being in writing, Faison said Hardee was given a verbal warning" Can a verbal warning be "documented"? Absolutely, but was it? Keep in mind that Hardee received a contract extension shorty after getting the DUI. That doesn't pass the smell test of Faison being serious with the "verbal warning". Was it given with a "wink-wink" or something. Heck, Hardee would likely have not yet even accomplished obtaining a CD eval by the time of the extension. That can be found out ... you know .. if someone really wanted to check into it.

Do it.

I'm satisfied with Faison's actions regarding both incidents; his action's fit the 'crime' in both incidents, IMO. Swifter and more appropriate than any I've seen come out of that school down south.

[MafiaMan]

Understand. The only thing I still question is the thought that there was a coverup regarding Hardee's prior DUI. There are two ways it gets out:

• it is found on a police record somewhere and reported by the media. Somebody on here said that it was in a municipal court so it wasn't widely available. I don't know the specifics of how that works but it sounds reasonable. Maybe the media saw it and didn't report it but it is plausible that nobody ever knew it existed.
  
• the other is that Faison/UND would report it once they were aware of it. I don't think they have an obligation to report that to the media or should. Do you?
  

Municipal court records for Grand Forks County don't appear to be available online. Add in the fact that "William" goes by "Ashley" and you have two ways that this evaded being detected. Again, intentional or unintentional, but I'm not sure the GF Herald or local news media can be faulted for not catching this.

[Herd]

su has been very successful with the correct choice they made moving to DI. Congrats! Pretty amazing actually. What I find curious is, after all this time of "UND is no longer our rival", the amount of hurt and resentment many of them still have with UND. Can anybody explain why this is so? What drives so much anger from otherwise seemingly intelligent nice fun to be around people?

Maybe it was the overall hipocrasy regarding anything NDSU, or maybe the 150 papge thread disparaging NDSU student athletes?

[MafiaMan]

Maybe it was the overall hipocrasy regarding anything NDSU, or maybe the 150 papge thread disparaging NDSU student athletes?

I'm at a loss for words...

[ericpnelson]

Maybe it was the overall hipocrasy regarding anything NDSU, or maybe the 150 papge thread disparaging NDSU student athletes?

if you don't understand the differences you're being tone deaf. I hope it's intentional.

[choyt3]

Maybe it was the overall hipocrasy regarding anything NDSU, or maybe the 150 papge thread disparaging NDSU student athletes?

I'm at a loss for words...

You forgot one. Foam dripping out the mouth can sometimes cause wrong keys to be pressed I suppose.

Good to hear of a girl committing to UND's volleyball program in light of this week's debacle.

[darell1976]

Maybe it was the overall hipocrasy regarding anything NDSU, or maybe the 150 papge thread disparaging NDSU student athletes?

Or maybe the hundreds of UND threads on BV where a new one pops up almost every day.

[MafiaMan]

You forgot one. Foam dripping out the mouth can sometimes cause wrong keys to be pressed I suppose.

Adding extra letters can happen on tiny keyboards...but the spelling of 'hypocrisy' was what really made me gasp.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

Perhaps Faison is not duty-bouind to disclose what the media doesn't uncover, although I believe as the AD he should at least feel he should. Also, his actual handling of the DUI, in terms of ensuring Hardee did all that was necessary to get reinstated, and requiring hard proof from Hardee, is not defensible. He dropped the ball big time, and, resultantly, UND has had a HWVC driving illegally for a year and a half or so. It's like he didn't think it was a big deal, when in fact it was and is. Also, and I believe this firmly, had Gene Taylor done the same, both people here and the media would be all over it and asking a lot more questions than what are being asked now =>hypocrisy.

As for the reprimand being in writing, Faison said Hardee was given a verbal warning" Can a verbal warning be "documented"? Absolutely, but was it? Keep in mind that Hardee received a contract extension shorty after getting the DUI. That doesn't pass the smell test of Faison being serious with the "verbal warning". Was it given with a "wink-wink" or something. Heck, Hardee would likely have not yet even accomplished obtaining a CD eval by the time of the extension. That can be found out ... you know .. if someone really wanted to check into it.

1. If Faison felt a verbal reprimand was all that was necessary at the time I don't think he would feel it necessary to alert the press. When a more serious incident occured, UND sent out a press release disclosing the punishment. There is and was no cover up attempt.

2. You have no idea whether or not Hardee has been driving the team since his initial DUI.

3. The verbal warning was absolutely serious. He warned that if another incident happened he would be gone. He was gone 3 days after the incident. He followed through exactly as he warned.

I have no issue with the way Faison handled the DUI in 2012 and I have no issue with how he's dealt with the aftermath of the incident in Portland. I do have an issue with the lack of prevention of the incident. I want more information about what Faison knew regarding the status of Hardee's license. There is a ton of possible variation about who is at fault here. It could be that Faison was negligent, it could be a lower level member of the athletic department, it could be that Hardee lied to Faison and duped a rental car agency. There are too many variables for me to be calling for Faison's head just yet but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

[SiouxFan100]

No way Hardee should have been driving in a position of authority. No excuse. I wouldn't want my kids in his van. He had to go.

I don't know the circumstances of his first DUI. Just wondering though if any posters here have ever driven after a few too many?

[CAS4127]

1. If Faison felt a verbal reprimand was all that was necessary at the time I don't think he would feel it necessary to alert the press. When a more serious incident occured, UND sent out a press release disclosing the punishment. There is and was no cover up attempt.

2. You have no idea whether or not Hardee has been driving the team since his initial DUI.

3. The verbal warning was absolutely serious. He warned that if another incident happened he would be gone. He was gone 3 days after the incident. He followed through exactly as he warned.

I have no issue with the way Faison handled the DUI in 2012 and I have no issue with how he's dealt with the aftermath of the incident in Portland. I do have an issue with the lack of prevention of the incident. I want more information about what Faison knew regarding the status of Hardee's license. There is a ton of possible variation about who is at fault here. It could be that Faison was negligent, it could be a lower level member of the athletic department, it could be that Hardee lied to Faison and duped a rental car agency. There are too many variables for me to be calling for Faison's head just yet but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

@Point 1: So a verbal warning for coach DUI in Forks but suspension w/o pay in Fargo. If H had been suspended, the media would have likely picked up on that. Hmmmm!!??

@Point 2: I didn't say he was driving the team, but the chances are damn good he was/did. Also, he had to drive to a and from work, and I have a hard time believing he wasn't driving a sponso car. That ain't right.

@Point 3: The Buck stops at F's desk, not some minions. Plus, you are assuming others AD staff knew of this-->remember it was a verbal reprimand(think quiet).