What made UND great and will make UND great again

[Matt]

No matter how you shake it, a different style of game is played in the Big Sky vs the Missouri Valley. Big Sky throws a lot. MVFC pounds the ball. The MVFC teams are used to physical play. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or better or worse - but it's just different. But late season games are typically won on the ground.

2012 CONFERNCE STATS

SCORING DEFENSE

Big Sky - 246 (31 ppg)

MVC - 171 (21 ppg)

2013 CONFERENCE STATS (Ok it's only 1 game)

SCORING DEFENSE

Big - 27.5

MVC - 19.5

I'd be interested in seeing the pass attempts per game between the two leagues.

[UND-1]

Ask Sam Houston about Big Sky defenses. The entire conference is built on winning during the regular season. When the playoffs come around, teams from other conferences run the ball with relative ease. I think Montana and Poly are built for the playoffs. Montana State gets the ball run down their throat and good defenses shut them down, especially when weather is a factor since they play outdoors

OOC and Playoffs. Go check out the scores when the MV defenses arent playing their own run-first offenses with terrible receivers. You will be surprised.

[Cratter]

Well this thread got off track quickly.

[Hayduke]

I know this thread was started with a lot of passion toward rebuilding the football program. I just don't like the title.

UND is great and has been for years. The football team is in a pretty rough patch right now.

Replace Mussman. Pay $$ for a coach that can handle the FCS level successfully. Keep building that indoor training facility.

UND football will be stronger than ever before.

[JohnboyND7]

I know this thread was started with a lot of passion toward rebuilding the football program. I just don't like the title.

UND is great and has been for years. The football team is in a pretty rough patch right now.

Replace Mussman. Pay $$ for a coach that can handle the FCS level successfully. Keep building that indoor training facility.

UND football will be stronger than ever before.

I didn't bold the Pay $$ part because I don't know what Youngstown State pays for their coach, I imagine he is compensated pretty well considering the pedigree that program has around it.

But, YSU has a beautiful(at least it looks that way from what i've seen) indoor practice facility and unfortunately...for them at least, they are nowhere near their days of winning FCS titles.

It certainly can't hurt to invest more in the program. Honestly, UND is getting exactly what they are paying for in Mussman. He makes around 120K?

[Hayduke]

I didn't bold the Pay $$ part because I don't know what Youngstown State pays for their coach, I imagine he is compensated pretty well considering the pedigree that program has around it.

But, YSU has a beautiful(at least it looks that way from what i've seen) indoor practice facility and unfortunately...for them at least, they are nowhere near their days of winning FCS titles.

It certainly can't hurt to invest more in the program. Honestly, UND is getting exactly what they are paying for in Mussman. He makes around 120K?

The facility will help and new coaching staff will help. But, it's not the end all either.

Grand Forks, ND needs an indoor practice facility. The difference in climate between Youngstown, OH and Grand Forks dictates that the training facility is more important in Grand Forks. Yeah, Youngstown hasn't dominated FCS like FU has...but they haven't exactly been bad either. 4-1 right now. The only loss to Michigan State.

Good recruits expect good facilities. Without them, unless the program is a perennial power, they will go elsewhere.

We also need to focus on the BSC and not worry about FU. Until UND gets good in the BSC, playoffs and FCS championship hopes are just a pipe dream.

[Hayduke]

I've lived in Colorado quite awhile, and I remember when Coach McCartney took over CU. He made the Nebraska game the "red letter" game of the year for the Buffs.

People thought he was nuts. Nebraska traditionally crushed CU.

But, a few short years later, CU started beating them and eventually won the AP Poll National Championship.

Maybe we need a coach like that..come in, point at Montana on the calendar and say, "That's who we're shooting for, year in and year out that's our red letter game!" Hey, forget FU. We need to win in the BSC and Montana is the program to go after.

[CMSioux]

McCartney's record was:

2-8-1,

4-7,

1-10,

7-5,

6-6,

7-4,

8-4,

11- 1 - There would have been a Fire McCarney thread the middle of year 3 based on this thread.

By the way based on this record it's sad that "the administration and alumni were willing to settle for mediocrity all those years and allow a coach who obviously couldn't recruit and had lost the belief of his players to remain around. Just looking at his record over his first 6 years it was obvious he was in over his head and didn't have a staff for DI football." or so I've been lead to believe based on similar comparisions.

[Shawn-O]

We are in year 6 of Mussman, not year 3.

[Matt]

McCartney's record was:

2-8-1,

4-7,

1-10,

7-5,

6-6,

7-4,

8-4,

11- 1 - There would have been a Fire McCarney thread the middle of year 3 based on this thread.

By the way based on this record it's sad that "the administration and alumni were willing to settle for mediocrity all those years and allow a coach who obviously couldn't recruit and had lost the belief of his players to remain around. Just looking at his record over his first 6 years it was obvious he was in over his head and didn't have a staff for DI football." or so I've been lead to believe based on similar comparisions.

Similar comparisons? Before Bill McCartney arrived, Colorado hadn't been the Big 8 champ since '76. Prior to that it was '61. UND is not the Colorado of this scenario. UND would be the Oklahoma or Nebraska of your comparison, I would say any coach that came into those places and put up those numbers would have been fired before the "fire McCartney" chant could even begin.

Maybe Muss will surprise me and follow McCartney's footsteps and compete for national titles and finish as his school's all time winingest...sorry-I can't even bring myself to finish typing that BS.

[Oxbow6]

McCartney's record was:

2-8-1,

4-7,

1-10,

7-5,

6-6,

7-4,

8-4,

11- 1 - There would have been a Fire McCarney thread the middle of year 3 based on this thread.

By the way based on this record it's sad that "the administration and alumni were willing to settle for mediocrity all those years and allow a coach who obviously couldn't recruit and had lost the belief of his players to remain around. Just looking at his record over his first 6 years it was obvious he was in over his head and didn't have a staff for DI football." or so I've been lead to believe based on similar comparisions.

The Buff's FB program at that time was the equivalent of Idaho St over the past 5-6 years. Nice try...keep trying to put frosting on the steaming pile of **** so it at least looks appealing in your eyes.

[CMSioux]

The Buff's FB program at that time was the equivalent of Idaho St over the past 5-6 years. Nice try...keep trying to put frosting on the steaming pile of **** so it at least looks appealing in your eyes.

Let's not get personal - everyone is entitled to their opinion - this is a chat room isn't it. I realize I'm not one of the football genuises in the room just enjoy the sport for what it is. Not my style to scream for a man's job and livilhood or smack down anyone whose opinion doesn't match mine. Carry on...

[darell1976]

McCartney's record was:

2-8-1,

4-7,

1-10,

7-5,

6-6,

7-4,

8-4,

11- 1 - There would have been a Fire McCarney thread the middle of year 3 based on this thread.

By the way based on this record it's sad that "the administration and alumni were willing to settle for mediocrity all those years and allow a coach who obviously couldn't recruit and had lost the belief of his players to remain around. Just looking at his record over his first 6 years it was obvious he was in over his head and didn't have a staff for DI football." or so I've been lead to believe based on similar comparisions.

Mussman's record:

2-4 (DI record) 6-4 overall

5-4 (DI record) 6-5 overall (including a loss vs Sioux Falls)

2-8 (DI record) 3-8 overall

5-3 (DI record) 8-3 overall

4-6 (DI record) 5-6 overall

1-3

Total 19-28 (DI record) Two winning DI records in 5 1/4 seasons? FIRE HIM!

Roger Thomas:

2-9

6-4

7-4

3-7-1 (1989 his last losing season)

7-3

7-2

6-4-1

10-3

10-3

9-2

7-3

8-2

8-3

Even Dale Lennon beat DI teams in 2006 (UNI) and 2007 (SUU) with a DII team.

[Oxbow6]

Let's not get personal - everyone is entitled to their opinion - this is a chat room isn't it. I realize I'm not one of the football genuises in the room just enjoy the sport for what it is. Not my style to scream for a man's job and livilhood or smack down anyone whose opinion doesn't match mine. Carry on...

Opinions bases on ridiculously pulled "facts" as comparisions are becoming annoying and you do that often. I get you support Muss and that's your right and opinion but don't continually try to sugar coat the obvious. In almost any other line of work, Muss would have been let go by now with his "record" and "job performance".

Butts in the seats will be a clear indicator of Muss's support over the next few weeks.

[UND-FB-FAN]

At this point, it's just patience my friends. If UND improves the rest of season and somehow finishes 6-5, then Mussman will likely stay. If Mussman finishes 4-7 or worse, then he will likely go. That 5-6 mark is a gray area - I'd like to see him removed if that's the case but I'm not sure how Faison would exactly react to that; heck, I'm not even sure how Faison would react to 4-7. But I do know attendance and alumni emails will ring home to Faison and eventually he would have to make the much-needed switch.

So, let's just let the season play out and see what happens. If Mussman still has his job in December and we're coming off a 3-8 or 4-7 season, then I'll be concerned and distraught.

[Matt]

At this point, it's just patience my friends. If UND improves the rest of season and somehow finishes 6-5, then Mussman will likely stay. If Mussman finishes 4-7 or worse, then he will likely go. That 5-6 mark is a gray area - I'd like to see him removed if that's the case but I'm not sure how Faison would exactly react to that; heck, I'm not even sure how Faison would react to 4-7. But I do know attendance and alumni emails will ring home to Faison and eventually he would have to make the much-needed switch.

So, let's just let the season play out and see what happens. If Mussman still has his job in December and we're coming off a 3-8 or 4-7 season, then I'll be concerned and distraught.

I'm not sure he's gone at 4-7. Faison just gave him an extension. It will reflect extraordinarily poorly on Faison if, one year removed from a lengthy extension he fires him? What does that say about his judgement? I think if there's ANY gray area, Muss will stay. Faison has already hitched his wagon to him.

[Hayduke]

Similar comparisons? Before Bill McCartney arrived, Colorado hadn't been the Big 8 champ since '76. Prior to that it was '61. UND is not the Colorado of this scenario. UND would be the Oklahoma or Nebraska of your comparison, I would say any coach that came into those places and put up those numbers would have been fired before the "fire McCartney" chant could even begin.

Maybe Muss will surprise me and follow McCartney's footsteps and compete for national titles and finish as his school's all time winingest...sorry-I can't even bring myself to finish typing that BS.

'

That last line made me laugh.

Yeah, I guess it took coach Mac a few more years to bring them up to championship level. But, he had the teams attention, although there were a few incidents off the turf with them, for the most part they were focused. On the other hand, coach Mac had to play a tough Big 8 schedule every year...Mussman has had time to prepare for a BSC schedule...or ill-prepare for it.

Bring in a visionary. Get rid of Mussman.

[Shawn-O]

I'm not sure he's gone at 4-7. Faison just gave him an extension. It will reflect extraordinarily poorly on Faison if, one year removed from a lengthy extension he fires him? What does that say about his judgement? I think if there's ANY gray area, Muss will stay. Faison has already hitched his wagon to him.

There's a precedent where he's pulled the trigger on his own hires, albeit in the lower profile sports. The pricetag on this one would be different, granted. Unless some drastic improvement takes place, I still see the UNC home game as the last straw...might be all time low Alerus attendance for that one.

[jdub27]

I'm not sure he's gone at 4-7. Faison just gave him an extension. It will reflect extraordinarily poorly on Faison if, one year removed from a lengthy extension he fires him? What does that say about his judgement? I think if there's ANY gray area, Muss will stay. Faison has already hitched his wagon to him.

I would still like to see how the extension reads and if there is a buyout. In college sports, a coach almost has to have a contract that goes a couple years out just for recruiting purposes.

[UND Fan]

I would sure think there is a buyout clause but who knows how much the buyout would be. If the program continues to embarrass itself, I think Faison would recommend the buyout to Kelley, who I am sure must approve it. Both Faison and Kelley want to "win" so I think it would be approved - although I am sure the department doesn't just have an extra $150-200K (hopefully, it would be less than this) or more just sitting around!

[fightingsioux4life]

Let's not get personal - everyone is entitled to their opinion - this is a chat room isn't it. I realize I'm not one of the football genuises in the room just enjoy the sport for what it is. Not my style to scream for a man's job and livilhood or smack down anyone whose opinion doesn't match mine. Carry on...

I am glad someone "enjoyed" what has taken place the past two weeks at the Alerus Center, because I didn't. And Oxbow wasn't getting personal. He didn't say one thing that was directed at you as a person.

[Westside]

From Tom Miller last April. http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/396398/publisher_ID/1/

Most of UND’s high-profile coaches were given contract extensions last summer, including Jones, football coach Chris Mussman, men’s hockey coach Dave Hakstol, women’s hockey coach Brian Idalski and volleyball coach Ashley Hardee. Some of those contract extensions, Faison said, were partly a trade-off for UND’s salary shortcomings.

I don't think Faison was talking about Hakstol & Idalski when he mentioned "salary shortcomings".

[UND92,96]

I would sure think there is a buyout clause but who knows how much the buyout would be. If the program continues to embarrass itself, I think Faison would recommend the buyout to Kelley, who I am sure must approve it. Both Faison and Kelley want to "win" so I think it would be approved - although I am sure the department doesn't just have an extra $150-200K (hopefully, it would be less than this) or more just sitting around!

For what it's worth, I have read contracts for FBS coaches, and generally speaking the buyout isn't due in one lump sum. Rather, the terminated coach would continue to receive his monthly salary, but the salary of his next job would be deducted every month from the buyout. In other words, if Muss receives roughly $10,000 per month now, and his next job paid him say $5,000 per month, UND is only on the hook for $5,000 per month until probably June of 2015. It's still a fair amount, but it's also extended over time and relatively painless all things considered.

I have certainly not seen Muss's contract, so I can't say with any degree of certainty that the above would apply to him, but my guess is that it does.

[homer]

For what it's worth, I have read contracts for FBS coaches, and generally speaking the buyout isn't due in one lump sum. Rather, the terminated coach would continue to receive his monthly salary, but the salary of his next job would be deducted every month from the buyout. In other words, if Muss receives roughly $10,000 per month now, and his next job paid him say $5,000 per month, UND is only on the hook for $5,000 per month until probably June of 2015. It's still a fair amount, but it's also extended over time and relatively painless all things considered.

Easily made up for in potential lost attendance is what your saying

[UND92,96]

Easily made up for in potential lost attendance is what your saying

Yes.