Time to Fire Dave Hakstol....

[siouxweet]

So, 1985 Rensselaer was another miracle? How aobut 1988, 1992, and 1994 Lake Superior State? 1989 Harvard? 1991 Northern Michigan?

or how about 2013, umass-lowell,qu, yale or scsu.

[MafiaMan]

First of all I said close to a miracle - but never the less:

RPI - 5 or so frozen four appearances; 1 title - so no;

LSSU - 4 FF appearances and 3 titles in 6 years - you were joking right

N. Mich. - 3 FF appearances & 1 title - so no not really

Harvard - about 11 or 12 FF appearances; 1 title (or more maybe, I don't know) - are you serious?

LSSU - NAIA program in 1974...NCAA hockey title in 1988. I'd say that's pretty impressive. YOU'RE joking, right?

Harvard - no scholarships...on the road...in St Paul...in OT...against the hometown Gophers and "Minnesota's Pride on Ice"...I'd say that's pretty impressive too.

[Gma loves hockey]

Last year, our understaffed, overachieving team seemed like they must have found "it". I think that is why so many people have been disappointed this year, thinking the team had "it" but somehow "it" got lost over the past summer.

[morley]

Last year, our understaffed, overachieving team seemed like they must have found "it". I think that is why so many people have been disappointed this year, thinking the team had "it" but somehow "it" got lost over the past summer.

In a sense it was lost over the summer. If we still had Brock this year we have a completely different team. A stable top line with 3 proven scorers, a heck of a second line with whoever and a great 3rd line.

[Oxbow6]

In a sense it was lost over the summer. If we still had Brock this year we have a completely different team. A stable top line with 3 proven scorers, a heck of a second line with whoever and a great 3rd line.

No doubt about it.

[MafiaMan]

Bowling Green record in 1982-1983: 28-8-4

If that was North Dakota's previous season record, you'd say that that was a team primed for a 34-8-2 record and a National Title. But since it's Bowling Green...

BTW...

1985-1986: 28-14

1986-1987: 33-10-2

1987-1988: 30-13-2

I'd say Jerry York had build a pretty good thing there at BG, wouldn't you?

[I Ranger]

In a sense it was lost over the summer. If we still had Brock this year we have a completely different team. A stable top line with 3 proven scorers, a heck of a second line with whoever and a great 3rd line.

I certainly agree with this. A few days after the Yale debacle I started thinking what it was this team was missing and I came to the conclusion that this team missed Brock Nelson more than anyone realized.

[siouxweet]

I certainly agree with this. A few days after the Yale debacle I started thinking what it was this team was missing and I came to the conclusion that this team missed Brock Nelson more than anyone realized.

however, good teams are supposed to overcome that. the 07-08 team lost toews and still ended up in the frozen four the year after. that team had oshie and duncan coming back and this years team had kristo and knight. both teams struggled with consistent scoring the whole season. and both seasons ended up with a debacle of a game. would it have been nice to have nelson back, absolutely. but, we also had rocco for the whole season this year as well. I think a bigger impact was missing parks for half the year and he never caught his stride.

[Oxbow6]

however, good teams are supposed to overcome that. the 07-08 team lost toews and still ended up in the frozen four the year after. that team had oshie and duncan coming back and this years team had kristo and knight. both teams struggled with consistent scoring the whole season. and both seasons ended up with a debacle of a game. would it have been nice to have nelson back, absolutely. but, we also had rocco for the whole season this year as well. I think a bigger impact was missing parks for half the year and he never caught his stride.

Look at your 1st sentence...this really wasn't a "good team" when it comes right down to it. Some great individual talent doesn't make a good team. Parks is starting to fall into the same category with OD IMO. Both are/were huge disappointments...even when healthy.

[brianvf]

Gwoz is available & we know his teams have been able to find "it" i.e. back to back titles. By the way if you don't have "it" and don't know exactly what "it" is or what "it" looks, sounds or feels like, or where to look for "it", then how do you ever find "it"?

Therefore, shouldn't you look for someone who knows all about "it" and has found "it" b/4, as opposed to someone who doesn't know anything about "it"?

Well, that's "it" for now.

This post is certainly full of it.

[siouxu31]

Gwoz is available & we know his teams have been able to find "it" i.e. back to back titles. By the way if you don't have "it" and don't know exactly what "it" is or what "it" looks, sounds or feels like, or where to look for "it", then how do you ever find "it"?

Therefore, shouldn't you look for someone who knows all about "it" and has found "it" b/4, as opposed to someone who doesn't know anything about "it"?

Well, that's "it" for now.

Gwoz's NCAA Record at Denver

95' 1-1

96' DNQ

97' 1-1

98' DNQ

99' 0-1

00' DNQ

01' DNQ

02' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

03' DNQ

04' 4-0 (National Title)

05' 4-0 (National Title) (#1 Seed)

06' DNQ

07' DNQ

08' 0-1

09' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

10' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

11' 1-1

12' 0-1

13' 0-1

So, aside from the 55 week stretch from the end of March in 04' and Early April of 05' Gwoz's teams really haven't had "it". Gwoz was 8-0 between 04' and 05' riding a very hot goalie in 04'. The other 17 years of his career his team was 3-10 in the ncaa tourney with 7 years of not qualifying for the tourney and 7 years of losing in their first game of the tourney (3 of those first game losses as a #1 Seed). Please explain to me how this makes his teams have "it". I would take Hak's consistency over this any day. Only 5 out of Gwoz's 19 seasons at Denver he was able to win a game at the NCAA tourney. Again, he and his teams sure have "it".

[watchmaker49]

That's a stretch given the previous titles North Dakota had in its ledger. You're comparing the Fighting Sioux to Lake Superior State, who went D1 in hockey in 1974, then won 3 titles within 20 years after the jump from NAIA?

No what I am saying is that UND had really done nothing for 16-17 years until they won. Then all of a sudden they are a top program again. So saying that BG winning was a miracle would be no different than saying UND in 80 was a miracle. Neither were miracles.

[iluvdebbies]

Gwoz is available & we know his teams have been able to find "it" i.e. back to back titles. By the way if you don't have "it" and don't know exactly what "it" is or what "it" looks, sounds or feels like, or where to look for "it", then how do you ever find "it"?

Therefore, shouldn't you look for someone who knows all about "it" and has found "it" b/4, as opposed to someone who doesn't know anything about "it"?

Well, that's "it" for now.

This post is certainly full of it.

[siouxweet]

This post is certainly full of it.

exactly, does having it mean losing to rit in 2010 or ferris state last year or even missing the tournament in 2006, 2007

[MafiaMan]

No what I am saying is that UND had really done nothing for 16-17 years until they won. Then all of a sudden they are a top program again. So saying that BG winning was a miracle would be no different than saying UND in 80 was a miracle. Neither were miracles.

We are both in agreement that Bowling Green winning in 1984 was nowhere near a miracle...My point with other posters here has been that winning NCAA titles prior to the current format was actually easier than it is today. Bowling Green played a home quarterfinal series in 1984 and advanced to the Frozen Four. That sounds a lot easier for many smaller schools than today's method of going on the road to a 'neutral' or even hostile arena as a higher seed (see also: 1998, Yost, Michigan, Jason Blake) needing to win two games to get to the show.

[siouxweet]

Gwoz's NCAA Record at Denver

95' 1-1

96' DNQ

97' 1-1

98' DNQ

99' 0-1

00' DNQ

01' DNQ

02' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

03' DNQ

04' 4-0 (National Title)

05' 4-0 (National Title) (#1 Seed)

06' DNQ

07' DNQ

08' 0-1

09' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

10' 0-1 (#1 Seed)

11' 1-1

12' 0-1

13' 0-1

So, aside from the 55 week stretch from the end of March in 04' and Early April of 05' Gwoz's teams really haven't had "it". Gwoz was 8-0 between 04' and 05' riding a very hot goalie in 04'. The other 17 years of his career his team was 3-10 in the ncaa tourney with 7 years of not qualifying for the tourney and 7 years of losing in their first game of the tourney (3 of those first game losses as a #1 Seed). Please explain to me how this makes his teams have "it". I would take Hak's consistency over this any day. Only 5 out of Gwoz's 19 seasons at Denver he was able to win a game at the NCAA tourney. Again, he and his teams sure have "it".

I will give gwoz a pass on the 02 team as they got screwed in having to go to ann arbor and ended up playing michigan on their home ice, like we did in 98.

[MafiaMan]

So you're saying a coach who doesn't look great at another school right now could replace Hak and win us 4 national titles?? And I thought there was nobody out there to replace him with.

Doesn't look great? Have you looked at Jerry York's records at Bowling Green other than 1983-1984? He carved out a pretty good run there in the 1980's...

[MafiaMan]

You can not create it. It is like when you went somewhere and had a special time. Try going back and creating that same special time again. You can't. Do you think that Gino or Dean created "it"? I dislike Hakstol more than anyone here and I do not even find him at fault.

I agree with watchmaker49 on this one...the 1997 Sioux team had something called 'chemistry'. You can't just throw 15-25 guys together (in any sport) and have the coach tell them 'okay, go create some chemistry.' it just happens - it's either there or it isn't. How many times have you seen a more talented team in any sport lose a championship to a team deemed athletically inferior? It happens more than you think.

I think a few folks should go watch 'Miracle' again and see how all-star teams don't work...and then ask yourself after watching it, why is North Dakota at home and Yale in Pittsburgh?

[watchmaker49]

We are both in agreement that Bowling Green winning in 1984 was nowhere near a miracle...My point with other posters here has been that winning NCAA titles prior to the current format was actually easier than it is today. Bowling Green played a home quarterfinal series in 1984 and advanced to the Frozen Four. That sounds a lot easier for many smaller schools than today's method of going on the road to a 'neutral' or even hostile arena as a higher seed (see also: 1998, Yost, Michigan, Jason Blake) needing to win two games to get to the show.

Agree with you on this. It was easier to win in the past. But you still needed to win the games you needed to win so that has not changed.

[MafiaMan]

Agree with you on this. It was easier to win in the past. But you still needed to win the games you needed to win so that has not changed.

UND vs Michigan in 1998 in REA is a 7-2 blow-out for the Sioux. NoDak wins the next night 5-1. That's a BIG change.

[watchmaker49]

Doesn't look great? Have you looked at Jerry York's records at Bowling Green other than 1983-1984? He carved out a pretty good run there in the 1980's...

I found that York won the league in 81-82, 82-83, 83-84, and 86-87. While Ron Mason won in 75-76, 77-78, and 78-79 with BG. The 2 seasons between 83-84 and 86-87 were when Mason won with Michigan St. So between the 75-76 season and the 86-87 season BG won 7 league titles. Hard to say winning in 84 was a miracle. Looks more like BG was a top program at the time.

[MafiaMan]

I found that York won the league in 81-82, 82-83, 83-84, and 86-87. While Ron Mason won in 75-76, 77-78, and 78-79 with BG. The 2 seasons between 83-84 and 86-87 were when Mason won with Michigan St. So between the 75-76 season and the 86-87 season BG won 7 league titles. Hard to say winning in 84 was a miracle. Looks more like BG was a top program at the time.

Ron Mason? Now there's a blast from the past. What a TERRIBLE coach. Michigan State won only ONE national title with him at the helm. He should have been coaching the East Lansing squirt C team, not the Spartans.

[UND1983]

The best team doesn't always win the F4. We've had some of the best players in the country and, yet they fell short. They're not automatons and the game is played on ice, not on a monitor. I've been disappointed with the outcome of a game many times but rarely has the team disappointed me.

OK, so I will ask this: When does UND ever win the National Championship in a year where they "do not have the best team"? I keep hearing it is not the best team that always wins, blah blah. Well, we have all agreed that UND has rarely had the best team on paper in the last 10 years - so why can't it be them if the "best team doesn't usually win it"?

[siouxweet]

OK, so I will ask this: When does UND ever win the National Championship in a year where they "do not have the best team"? I keep hearing it is not the best team that always wins, blah blah. Well, we have all agreed that UND has rarely had the best team on paper in the last 10 years - so why can't it be them if the "best team doesn't usually win it"?

1997, michigan was the best team in the land

[UND1983]

1997, michigan was the best team in the land

What thread are we in?