Indian nicknames in the news

[nodak651]

42 minutes ago, Big Green said:

The amount they can sell if very subjective.  What is enough to keep the trademark?  I'd challenge the NCAA to do something about it.  They have been losing everything lately.  How can they dictate how much a university can sell?  Problem is no one at the university is willing to stand up and do something about it.

 

It's really bugged me that UND hasn't worked out a deal with homefield apperal to sell it through them - the sell vintage clothing for universities.  It seems UND doesnt want Sioux clothing available for sale on the internet.

[The Sicatoka]

https://www.siouxshop.com/special-collections/traditions/fighting-sioux/ 

https://www.siouxshop.com/special-collections/traditions/1980s/ 

[siouxfaninseattle]

1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

Well, the first issue is UND is violation with their settlement agreement with the NCAA if they don't retain the trademark of the retired nickname and logo.

Second issue would be setting back whatever strides in rebranding (regardless of how small or large) and giving in to a very vocal minority group who mostly support the hockey team. Not saying there isn't a way to come up with a solution, but the Sioux Shop still sells Fighting Sioux merchandise. While the selection is intentionally limited, would be curious on what the sales for the Dacotah Legacy Collection actually is.

As to your point about people wanting to get something back, sure that is definitely fair and I agree with it. However, if you want talented rosters, the current set up requires funds to help pay for them. At this point, the return (is hopefully) winning games.

Good post. Another point to remember is that several woke universities said they wouldn't schedule any games with UND if they kept Fighting Sioux.

[nodak651]

10 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

https://www.siouxshop.com/special-collections/traditions/fighting-sioux/ 

https://www.siouxshop.com/special-collections/traditions/1980s/ 

Looks like they don't currently have any apperal on the website with the Sioux logo.

[nodak651]

This is an overview of the Dakota Legacy Collection (from 2022 when I requested it):

[Big Green]

23 minutes ago, siouxfaninseattle said:

Good post. Another point to remember is that several woke universities said they wouldn't schedule any games with UND if they kept Fighting Sioux.

Scare Tactic.  If the Gophers don't want to play us anymore, I don't really care.  Most overrated weekend of the year.  The Ralph is packed for every home game, we don't need them to sell tickets.  Plenty of other team we can schedule.

Beside we are not keeping the Fighting Sioux name, so it is irrelevant.  We are selling Vintage merchandise.

 

[nodak651]

19 minutes ago, Big Green said:

Scare Tactic.  If the Gophers don't want to play us anymore, I don't really care.  Most overrated weekend of the year.  The Ralph is packed for every home game, we don't need them to sell tickets.  Plenty of other team we can schedule.

Beside we are not keeping the Fighting Sioux name, so it is irrelevant.  We are selling Vintage merchandise.

 

Such a wasted opportunity.  https://www.homefieldapparel.com/  We gotta be one of the only schools not working with this company and they have a ton of great stuff. No reason they can't sell a few vintage T Shirts online.  I get that UND needs to develop the Fighting Hawks brand, but at least let people buy something other than knockoffs where UND doesn't even get any royalty money.

[Siouxperman8]

35 minutes ago, Big Green said:

Scare Tactic.  If the Gophers don't want to play us anymore, I don't really care.  Most overrated weekend of the year.  The Ralph is packed for every home game, we don't need them to sell tickets.  Plenty of other team we can schedule.

Beside we are not keeping the Fighting Sioux name, so it is irrelevant.  We are selling Vintage merchandise.

 

I think the Big Ten was in unison on that.  Football will play or has played Nebraska, MN, Iowa for $$ games.  Men's and women's basketball has played Big Ten teams too.  Plus we'd write off the chance of ever hosting a home playoff game per the NCAA. 

I loved the Fighting Sioux name but it's gone and not coming back. 

[petey23]

4 hours ago, Big Green said:

I think this is the perfect way.  I don't think the majority of people want to contribute to NIL if they are not getting something back.  Sioux name is not going anywhere and the university has failed to capitalize on it.  They have the Legacy collection and don't hardly have anything in it.  A lot of people will not buy fighting hawk merchandise no matter what. 

They have let the use of the old logo go wild and I am guessing they are not being paid license fees on it since it isn't being sold at "retail". They have not enforced the use as every Tom, Dick, and Harry are selling Sioux Merch on various Facebook Pages....most of it does not have the "Dacotah" on it. A pretty stark contrast compared to the School down South.

[Big Green]

3 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I think the Big Ten was in unison on that.  Football will play or has played Nebraska, MN, Iowa for $$ games.  Men's and women's basketball has played Big Ten teams too.  Plus we'd write off the chance of ever hosting a home playoff game per the NCAA. 

I loved the Fighting Sioux name but it's gone and not coming back. 

No one is saying to change back to Fighting Sioux, but they can and should sell more merchandise.

 

[ND_Texan]

I often wonder how many other UND alumni besides myself stopped giving money to the university when they dropped the Fighting Sioux nickname. Any others out there?

[nodak651]

Just now, ND_Texan said:

I often wonder how many other UND alumni besides myself stopped giving money to the university when they dropped the Fighting Sioux nickname. Any others out there?

As if they really had a choice?

[UNDhoops]

crazy to me to love a nickname more than your school but to each their own i suppose

[nodak651]

4 minutes ago, Big Green said:

No one is saying to change back to Fighting Sioux, but they can and should sell more merchandise.

 

Agreed.  I mean, if there is any doubt about the trademark rights, they need to in order to satisfy the settlement agreement with the NCAA.

[ND_Texan]

Just now, UNDhoops said:

crazy to me to love a nickname more than your school but to each their own i suppose

crazy to me to fall into the woke agenda but each to their own i suppose

[ND_Texan]

2 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

As if they really had a choice?

We had a weak woke president that chose not to fight the matter. There most definitely was a choice.

[nodak651]

2 minutes ago, ND_Texan said:

We had a weak woke president that chose not to fight the matter. There most definitely was a choice.

Perhaps the choice could have been not to sign the settlement agreement, but once the settlement agreement was signed and UND didn't get approval, we would lose out on the opportunity to host post season fb games, and UND wouldn't have been able to host post season hockey regionals either.  I agree that UND should have fought harder, and I think the Pres at the time was happy to retire the logo, but after a certain point, there's nothing that can really be done about it and the President at the time is now gone.  You choose not to support the University now, because of the poor leadership of a a president two decades ago?  I just don't get the logic there.  

[Siouxperman8]

2 minutes ago, ND_Texan said:

We had a weak woke president that chose not to fight the matter. There most definitely was a choice.

I grew up in GF area, played for the Sioux and was a militant 'keep the nickname' guy until it just wasn't worth what it was going to cost.  I also have a house full of Sioux stuff that will last me as long as I am on this earth.  

They fought it to tune of millions of dollars but it became untenable by the end.   The pain that was going to be imposed went way beyond any potential gain by keeping the nickname.  I believe we got jobbed on playoff seeding or left out completely as punishment in multiple sports. 

If we'd have chosen a better nickname like Nodaks, I think the transition wouldn't be such a big deal.

[Siouxperman8]

20 minutes ago, Big Green said:

No one is saying to change back to Fighting Sioux, but they can and should sell more merchandise.

 

I'd guess there's a formal or informal limit on how much Sioux merch we can sell and still be seen as having changed our nickname. 

[ND_Texan]

2 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Perhaps the choice could have been not to sign the settlement agreement, but once the settlement agreement was signed and UND didn't get approval, we would lose out on the opportunity to host post season fb games, and UND wouldn't have been able to host post season hockey regionals either.  I agree that UND should have fought harder, and I think the Pres at the time was happy to retire the logo, but after a certain point, there's nothing that can really be done about it and the President at the time is now gone.  You choose not to support the University now, because of the poor leadership of a a president two decades ago?  I just don't get the logic there.  

I got a call from the Alumni Association I believe in 2011, during the heat of the battle, asking why I hadn't provided my usual donation. I told them I will return to giving when they get the Sioux name back or fight the NCAA hard and honorably. Neither occurred and I kept my word. We had the opportunity to convince the Standing Rock tribe to vote on the issue, as their chief (a horrific drunk) at the time wouldn't allow a vote. We would have carried that vote like we did with the Spirit Lake tribe, but zero effort was made to get them to vote. That was the turning point. There was no effort by the university to make it happen then, in subsequent years, or even now. Why do you think that is?

[UNDhoops]

if you say woke a few more times do you win a jackpot or something

[jdub27]

2 hours ago, Big Green said:

The amount they can sell if very subjective.  What is enough to keep the trademark?  I'd challenge the NCAA to do something about it.  They have been losing everything lately.  How can they dictate how much a university can sell?  Problem is no one at the university is willing to stand up and do something about it.

What benefit does UND have to open that can of worms again?
I don't see a net positive in that.

[Big Green]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

What benefit does UND have to open that can of worms again?
I don't see a net positive in that.

Money.  The amount of Fighting Sioux Merchandise they would sell would be unreal.  

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 hour ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I grew up in GF area, played for the Sioux and was a militant 'keep the nickname' guy until it just wasn't worth what it was going to cost.  I also have a house full of Sioux stuff that will last me as long as I am on this earth.  

They fought it to tune of millions of dollars but it became untenable by the end.   The pain that was going to be imposed went way beyond any potential gain by keeping the nickname.  I believe we got jobbed on playoff seeding or left out completely as punishment in multiple sports. 

If we'd have chosen a better nickname like Nodaks, I think the transition wouldn't be such a big deal.

This is the correct take. We got screwed but I'm not about to let my alma mater and the school I grew up cheering for since I was born suffer as a result. 

[jdub27]

25 minutes ago, Big Green said:

Money.  The amount of Fighting Sioux Merchandise they would sell would be unreal.  

How much money do you think they would make? Because I'm guessing you are overestimating it significantly. Maybe a one-time bump when they brought it back but it wouldn't be a sizable revenue stream in perpetuity. Fan base just isn't big enough.
The top P4 schools get 10-15% royalties at best and it is mid to high 7 figures.
I bet you could look back at old reports and see that UND made a couple hundred thousand at best in their top years and that might be generous.

That's all moot since it going to happen because they would have to spend whatever they make in legal fees just to fight a battle they already lost.