82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 You think anyone will learn anything new ? ? ? A lot of people that haven't paid much attention to the issue, which probably means a majority of the state, will have a chance to hear the truth. Most people only know the very basics, not all of the factors involved. Whether they take advantage of the opportunity will be the question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Stop with the "private organization" BS, it makes you sound like a cheerleader for the NCAA. Only if there was another college sports organization of equal caliber would that argument fly, but the fact of the matter is that they are a monopoly and as a monopoly they are abusing their authority. They won't get away with it. I can't help it that you can't deal with reality. The "private organization" part is very important. The situation is different because of that fact than if it were a governmental organization. If you can't understand that, you have no chance of understanding the entire situation. And monopolies are not illegal. They are usually only found to be a problem if they interfere with commerce or if they are doing something illegal. The NCAA has been examined many times and haven't been found to be doing anything illegal. And it is hard to argue that they are interfering with commerce with the dollars that the NCAA brings to the member schools. The courts are going to recognize that the NCAA is a private organization and base any legal rulings on that fact, so it has to be considered in any discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Bunch of spineless NCAA apologists. They should be ashamed of themselves. They understand the situation that is facing UND. You don't. Do you have to continually insult everyone that disagrees with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Bunch of spineless NCAA apologists. They should be ashamed of themselves. Yeah, stupid UND alumni and athletes...who are they to speak for the well-being of the school? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yeah, stupid UND alumni and athletes...who are they to speak for the well-being of the school? Dave would probably rather close the school than give up the nickname. He doesn't care about UND, only the Fighting Sioux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gma loves hockey Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I had a favorite horse named "Fighting Sioux". He was starved to death a few years back by his other owner "Standing Rock". I tried to revive him by giving him resusitation known as "state amendment". But the vet named NCAA still declared him dead. A friend named "Spirit Lake" tried to help but it was too late. He has been laying there for a long time now and I believe it may be time to bury him and get a beautiful headstone. The neighboring states have declared that the stench is getting to them. With many fond memories that will last forever, Goodbye Old Friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I agree with 82 No Sioux Name close the school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I can't help the fact that you are unable (or unwilling) to accept that the NCAA's being a monopoly makes the "private organization" argument a moot point. What they are trying to do is unconstitutional and to be perfectly frank downright hateful and racist. If this was the Big 10 or the Big Sky I would be willing to buy the "private organization" argument, as there are other equal conferences to choose from, but because there is no other organization that is the equal of the NCAA (and spare me the NAIA argument, it isn't equal and you know it) this is a flawed logic. If you didn't have your nose so far up the NCAA's butts maybe you would not be blinded to that. The courts have repeatedly said that the NCAA has a constitutional right to do everything that they have done. Unless you are a constitutional attorney that can point out a point of law that the courts have missed, you don't know what you are talking about. A big reason why it isn't unconstitutional is BECAUSE THE NCAA IS A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION. A private organization can do a lot of things that a governmental body can not do. Whether the NAIA is an equal alternative or not has nothing to do with whether the NCAA is a private organization, and has nothing to do with this issue. I believe that you and your friends are the ones that are blind to the facts. Notice I said facts, not supposition or rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I agree with 82 No Sioux Name close the school You do realize that without a school there is not athletic department, and without an athletic department there is no sports nickname. But the state would still own it and would be able to lock it away for good. So the nickname goes away in that case too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 wrong is wrong without legal mumbo jumbo or how many minions march out & try to tell us different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Ralph said " Long Live the Fighting Sioux" that is good enough for me - I plan to Honor his request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 "May this logo and nickname live forever" The people of ND will Honor this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ralph said " Long Live the Fighting Sioux" that is good enough for me - I plan to Honor his request baaaa baaa Follow without question, that always works lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Once again, BECAUSE THEY ARE A MONOPOLY they can't hide behind the "private organization" defense. That will not hold up in court, wait and see. I am waiting. And every lawyer that I've talked to about the issue disagree with you. It is a voluntary, membership organization. They may not be equal, but the NAIA is a very large competitor. The NCAA isn't going to be found a monopoly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Because the NCAA has excecuted an arbitrary policy regarding Native American nicknames and excluded nicknames of other races and nationalities from their racist decree and subsequent policy, couldn't Native Americans who believe that the use of said nicknames is an honor and a valuable acknowledgement of their heratige and the disallowance of such names is discrimination, raciest and a violation of their civil rights have a claim against the NCAA? . Once again because it is arbitrary and capricious, is it not? Was this a part of the Federal Law suite filed by Spririt Lake? If not it should be. And this should be able to walk right past any private organization crap! ...Bottom line is what the NCAA is doing is wrong.. Let's not lose sight of that one fellas!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I am waiting. And every lawyer that I've talked to about the issue disagree with you. It is a voluntary, membership organization. They may not be equal, but the NAIA is a very large competitor. The NCAA isn't going to be found a monopoly. And even being a "monopoly" isn't necessarily illegal. These days the only real enforcers of antitrust law are in the federal government and I doubt they're going after the NC$$ anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Because the NCAA has excecuted an arbitrary policy regarding Native American nicknames and excluded nicknames of other races and nationalities from their racist decree and subsequent policy, couldn't Native Americans who believe that the use of said nicknames is an honor and a valuable acknowledgement of their heratige and the disallowance of such names is discrimination, raciest and a violation of their civil rights have a claim against the NCAA? . Once again because it is arbitrary and capricious, is it not? Was this a part of the Federal Law suite filed by Spririt Lake? If not it should be. And this should be able to walk right past any private organization crap! ...Bottom line is what the NCAA is doing is wrong.. Let's not lose sight of that one fellas!! Federal courts have ruled that private organizations can be segregated. There are golf clubs that don't allow anyone of any color other than white. And clubs that only allow men. So the courts are not going to rule against the NCAA for a policy that is based on research that says the use of Native American sports nicknames and mascots is racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 And even being a "monopoly" isn't necessarily illegal. These days the only real enforcers of antitrust law are in the federal government and I doubt they're going after the NC$$ anytime soon. I mentioned on the last page that monopolies by themselves are not illegal. They normally have to interfere with commerce or be doing something illegal before the government even thinks about stepping in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You're absolutely right, and I trust that the majority of North Dakota residents are sensible enough to see that for what it is. On this forum , however, the vast majority seem to be NCAA apologists who just can't stop kissing NCAA a$$. The NCAA can do no wrong in the eyes of the anti-nickname zealots on this forum. There is a difference between understanding what the NCAA can and can't do, and liking it. Most of us don't like what the NCAA is doing, but understand that they have the ability and legal rights to do those things. "Wrong" doesn't have a lot of standing in court. Legal does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I mentioned on the last page that monopolies by themselves are not illegal. They normally have to interfere with commerce or be doing something illegal before the government even thinks about stepping in. Well, since Soderstrom doesn't have the intellectual capacity to make a Sherman Act case that won't make a judge snicker, perhaps he can accuse the NC$$ of committing "hate crimes" or "genocide". An appeal to the UN for an international tribunal to investigate this outrage would be "logical". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You're absolutely right, and I trust that the majority of North Dakota residents are sensible enough to see that for what it is. On this forum , however, the vast majority seem to be NCAA apologists who just can't stop kissing NCAA a$$. The NCAA can do no wrong in the eyes of the anti-nickname zealots on this forum. You understand that UND is a VOLUNTARY member of an organization that allows its member to vote on its policies right? UND had a vote on this, but were outvoted to institute the policy on Native American imagery. The NCAA isn't a couple of guys sitting in offices in Indianapolis making up rules as they go, it is made up of member schools and all of these schools decide the rules. Well, since Soderstrom doesn't have the intellectual capacity to make a Sherman Act case that won't make a judge snicker, perhaps he can accuse the NC$$ of committing "hate crimes" or "genocide". An appeal to the UN for an international tribunal to investigate this outrage would be "logical". Dave has already claimed this is similar to murder, you probably should quit planting ideas in his head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 What is racist is not the use of Native American nicknames but rather the attempt to exterminate use of said nicknames. Well, the NCAA created their Native American policy based on research that disagrees with you. Go argue with them. See if that works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree with 82 No Sioux Name close the school Two words mean more to you then an entire institution? You can't be serious? You either have lost all touch with reality, or you're just here to troll. In either case, I wish you'd fold up your tent and leave. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 There are a lot of things in this world I don't like, that I disagree with fundamentally, but that I have to accept because the alternative would be more devastating to me than acceptance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 trex you old fossil it was a joke - "lighten up while you still can" we know the vast majority will vote no "don't even try to understand" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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