Change the name gaining support

[82SiouxGuy]

Quite frankly, I really don't give a rat's a$$ about your degrees or where your money goes. That is nobody's business but yours and has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

Actually, where his degrees come from IS relevant to the discussion and it's the part that you don't seem to get. My degree says University of North Dakota also. The University of North Dakota is going to be damaged by this nickname issue getting dragged out. And we don't hate fans that aren't alums, but we aren't too fond of people who will willing damage the school that is very important to us. It just seems that a lot of them are people like you, people that have no allegiance to the school other than watching some sporting events.

[Fetch]

"a lot of them are people like you, people that have no allegiance to the school other than watching some sporting events."

& get ready for what they are about to do come June

[82SiouxGuy]

"a lot of them are people like you, people that have no allegiance to the school other than watching some sporting events."

& get ready for what they are about to do come June

First we'll see what the Supreme Court has to say. With any luck we won't have to worry about it in June.

[Fetch]

Then you will all change your tune & get behind SL ? & make sure if they win UND keeps the Fighting Sioux Name or are you natural born Losers

[82SiouxGuy]

In a way it's sort of funny how many people are convinced that the school is going to be damaged by this issue when in reality we do not know for a fact if any of the doomsday theories will actually come true or not, but in another more realistic way it's actually quite sad and pathetic. No guts, no glory.

It's sad that some people are so attached to a symbol that they can't see the truth in front of them. We do know for a fact that the school will suffer some damage. Schools have already refused to schedule games. Athletes have decided they weren't interested in attending UND because of the sanctions. And this is just the beginning. Of course you don't care if there is damage done, you would give up the entire Athletic Department rather than give up the name.

[WYOBISONMAN]

In a way it's sort of funny how many people are convinced that the school is going to be damaged by this issue when in reality we do not know for a fact if any of the doomsday theories will actually come true or not, but in another more realistic way it's actually quite sad and pathetic. No guts, no glory.

Hell yes.......what is wrong with playing Russian Roulette with one of the major Higher Ed institutions in North Dakota. It sure seems sensible to me.

[82SiouxGuy]

Then you will all change your tune & get behind SL ? & make sure if they win UND keeps the Fighting Sioux Name or are you natural born Losers

You do know how courts work, don't you? Nothing that any of us does will help Spirit Lake in the lawsuit. We don't know how long it is going to take. And we don't know what else will happen between now and then.

Nice job with the name calling again.

[Goon]

Don't cry, Dave. My degrees read the "University of North Dakota" and my money goes there. You and Fetch can take the Sioux moniker, and "worship it" as you see fit.

I have to agree with the Lawyer, here, I have two degrees from UND as well and both pieces of paper say University of North Dakota. While I love the Fighting Sioux I am worn out on this issue and I want to be able to see UND play in the BSC for football.It's about not being able to play Wisconsin or Minnesota in Hockey.

[Goon]

Hell yes.......what is wrong with playing Russian Roulette with one of the major Higher Ed institutions in North Dakota. It sure seems sensible to me.

That was funny.

[fightingsioux4life]

Costed us a home and home with big ten U of Iowa

http://www.nytimes.c...gewanted=2&_r=2

But remember, it's "a small price to pay".

[trenchballer]

Two things about your post. First, if a law is unconstitutional it shouldn't be a law. That goes for laws that are made by the legislature and laws that are made by referendum or inititiative (by the people). The Constitution is the framework of the government and the basis for the rest of the laws. If a law doesn't fit within that framework, if it goes against what is in the Constitution, then it should not be a law. That is the basis for the case going to the Supreme Court and why they are asking to prevent the vote in June. The will of the people does not overrule the Constitution unless it is to add an amendment to the Constitution.

I doubt that there are very many people that have refused an athletic scholarship to UND because they don't like the nickname Fighting Sioux. But I have no doubts that there are people that have gone to other schools instead of UND because of the sanctions that UND is under while they use the nickname and logo. That problem is just going to get bigger and bigger the longer the nickname is kept. If you had a choice of a full scholarship between 2 schools, and one of them is under NCAA sanctions, why would you decide to go to the school with the sanctions?

You are right, the issues with the Big Sky and with other schools are because of the sanctions and not because of the nickname. But the sanctions are in place because of the nickname. And the sanctions aren't going away until the name goes away. Why is that so hard for people to understand? None of these efforts to force UND to keep the name are going to make the NCAA change their mind about the nickname and sanctions.

What he said !!

[watchmaker49]

The nickname and logo are not inimical to either UND or UND athletics. Rather, it's NCAA racism, intransigence, imputation of racism to a simple moniker, and arrogance that is the problem. If these alumni, including Phil Jackson who claims to respect native american heritage, were to press the 3 stooges (ND Congressional delegation) and publicly decry the NCAA's behavior and disrespect of native american traditions, it probably would have positive results. To eisegete doom and gloom into the term "Fighting Sioux" is a distortion. The NCAA, not the nickname, is the problem. These same public figures aught to be using their influence to point out how idiotic the NCAA's stance vis-a-vis a nickname with overwhelming support of at least one tribe is.

I see you are showing your "respect" again for Native Americans.

[homer]

In a way it's sort of funny how many people are convinced that the school is going to be damaged by this issue when in reality we do not know for a fact if any of the doomsday theories will actually come true or not, but in another more realistic way it's actually quite sad and pathetic. No guts, no glory.

Some of the damage is already being done Dave. Losing a home basketball game to Iowa has happened. As of now, losing hockey games to Wisconsin has happened. Coach Lennon has no reason to lie about his accounts of recruiting stories, talk to some of the coaches and they'll tell you the same thing. Its hurting recruiting yet fans like you are the ones who critisize coaches and where the programs are at. I guess I don't find any of this stuff funny that is already happening.

[Fetch]

my name calling is generalized - & only after I get mud slinged personally at me - remember you get what you give

[ScottM]

Quite frankly, I really don't give a rat's a$$ about your degrees or where your money goes. That is nobody's business but yours and has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

You disappoint me, Dave. I was expecting a response couched in your usual self-righteous indignation. And if you think alumni ties are irrelevant "to this discussion", you're more delusional than I originally thought.

[UNDColorado]

We get it, you hate fans who are not alums. Move along now.

My degree reads University of North Dakota as well. Just like most here I love the name, but it is far beyond that. It is about doing right by the institution as a whole; what is best for the long run.

I was born, raised, and educated in North Dakota so believe me when I tell you that I am not happy about having to say that is is time to move on. I may not live there now, but I am still a fan and follower of the University; which is far more than a name and logo. Please try to wrap your mind around that.

[The Sicatoka]

Both sides here are claiming the other is making assumptions about outcomes.

One side claims the other is assuming damage will happed to UND if the name is kept and sanctions for it come. However, there's ample evidence of that not being an assumption but a reality: loss of Iowa games, loss of Wisconsin games, Minnesota saying they won't schedule, the BSC commissioner saying they won't stand for a conference member on such sanctions, and even a former UND coach stating he's witnessed the effects. And finally, the NCAA has said the sanctions stand directly to the Governor of ND.

The other side claims the first assumes Spirit Lake will win. Except, the NCAA has never lost in court.

So who are you going to believe? The grand stories of assumed victory over the undefeated in court NCAA, or your own lying eyes as games come off schedules and even Coach Lennon may start using the name and sanctions against UND.

[82SiouxGuy]

Both sides here are claiming the other is making assumptions about outcomes.

One side claims the other is assuming damage will happed to UND if the name is kept and sanctions for it come. However, there's ample evidence of that not being an assumption but a reality: loss of Iowa games, loss of Wisconsin games, Minnesota saying they won't schedule, the BSC commissioner saying they won't stand for a conference member on such sanctions, and even a former UND coach stating he's witnessed the effects. And finally, the NCAA has said the sanctions stand directly to the Governor of ND.

The other side claims the first assumes Spirit Lake will win. Except, the NCAA has never lost in court.

So who are you going to believe? The grand stories of assumed victory over the undefeated in court NCAA, or your own lying eyes as games come off schedules and even Coach Lennon may start using the name and sanctions against UND.

Quit confusing the issue. "There's a big bully on our playground and we aren't going to take it any more. They're evil and must be stopped no matter the cost. Good will prevail over evil in the end." Did I miss any of the nickname-at-any-cost groups arguments?

[ScottM]

So who are you going to believe? The grand stories of assumed victory over the undefeated in court NCAA, or your own lying eyes as games come off schedules and even Coach Lennon may start using the name and sanctions against UND.

From the NY Times article linked earlier ...

The Big Sky commissioner, Doug Fullerton, said the conference still planned to add North Dakota. But, he added, that may change if more nonconference universities objecting to the nickname refuse to play North Dakota. “I know, because I know coaches, that it’s already being used against them in recruiting,” Fullerton said in a telephone interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/sports/push-to-save-fighting-sioux-name-puts-north-dakota-in-costly-limbo.html?ref=sports&pagewanted=all

[Chewey]

I see you are showing your "respect" again for Native Americans.

Well, that was way off point but consider the source. If you're thrown in with JTA and Erich Longie, you're hopeless when it comes to "respect" for native americans or their voice but, I guess, hopelesslessness was already a foregone conclusion.

[Hayduke]

My degree reads University of North Dakota as well. Just like most here I love the name, but it is far beyond that. It is about doing right by the institution as a whole; what is best for the long run.

I was born, raised, and educated in North Dakota so believe me when I tell you that I am not happy about having to say that is is time to move on. I may not live there now, but I am still a fan and follower of the University; which is far more than a name and logo. Please try to wrap your mind around that.

Yeah, I just walked over and looked at my diploma in my office.

Nope. Nothing saying "Fighting Sioux" on it.

(Still can't figure out what "rights and privileges" my Bachelor of Arts degree give me. )

[108498]

I see no point why a degree should make or break someone's opinion. I grow up a Sioux fan and I am llaining on trasfering to UND in a year. Why should students like myself be left out when it is the students like my who go to the away games and stand cheering all game long. For anyone who saw the UND unc game tyhis fall should know who I am by the amount of cheering I was doing. Fans like myself live and die by the sioux tradition not by who we play and how well we do.

By the way do any of you really think the university would recieve the support they have gotton without the tradition. It rises above the games and college itself. It is a national thing. The sioux is what bond kids and adualts together.

[82SiouxGuy]

I see no point why a degree should make or break someone's opinion. I grow up a Sioux fan and I am llaining on trasfering to UND in a year. Why should students like myself be left out when it is the students like my who go to the away games and stand cheering all game long. For anyone who saw the UND unc game tyhis fall should know who I am by the amount of cheering I was doing. Fans like myself live and die by the sioux tradition not by who we play and how well we do.

By the way do any of you really think the university would recieve the support they have gotton without the tradition. It rises above the games and college itself. It is a national thing. The sioux is what bond kids and adualts together.

The name hasn't won a single game. The name hasn't scored a single goal, or a touchdown. The name hasn't intercepted a pass. The name didn't create any of the tradition. The name is great. But it's the people that have created the traditions. It is the success of the people that have inspired the support. It's the teams full of players and coaches that we cheer for. If you are a fan of the team or the school you are cheering for them, not the name. The name is something you use when you are cheering for that team or that school. Simple question for you. If you went to a game and the uniforms were laying out on the field with the nickname, would those uniforms be able to beat a team of real players? I don't think so. The name doesn't win games, the team wins games.

There is a difference being an alumnus rather than just a fan. The alum have more of a connection to the entire University, not just rooting for a team. There is even a difference between being a student and being an alumnus. Students are a very important part of the equation. They are part of continuing the traditions that the alumni are already part of. And maybe you will see the difference when you are actually a student at the University of North Dakota rather than a student somewhere else and rooting for the Fighting Sioux. Remember, it isn't the University of Fighting Sioux, it's the University of North Dakota. That is a major difference when you are a student or alumnus.

[geaux_sioux]

I grew up in Grand Forks loving the Fighting Sioux and enjoying their success. I am an alumnus of UND. I have more Fighting Sioux gear than I probably should. It's the best nickname in all of sports and easily the best logo. The logo means even more to me since I got to know how great of a guy Mr. Brine is from being in some of his art classes. I am also a very stubborn Norwegian/Swed that would love to keep everything to spite the NCAA. That being said we need to move on. There would be nothing more selfish for us to do than to bring about the death of UND athletics just so we can have a nickname and to keep dragging this nickname, which represents more than just the school, through the mud while in the process making the whole state look ignorant and short-sighted. We need to move on because what good is a nickname and logo if you have no sports teams worth cheering for.

[The Sicatoka]

Involved alumni, we don't disregard the efforts of those involved with a team and a team name, but we don't see just a team and a team name either.

We see a great institution that someone worked to improve for us and we're expected to do the same for those who follow.