Alumni Association begins campaign against nickname

[jodcon]

http://www.grandfork...icle/id/229558/

What color is the sky in their world?

To quote Andy Dufresne, " How could you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?"

"If the June measure were to fail, Chaske said the committee would continue collecting petitions for an initiated measuire seeking to put the nickname into the state Constitution through a vote in November."

*Sigh*

[Fetch]

I have not read or heard it yet - are there any keywords that could say what he really thinks or is he just being a good soldier for the program ? I'd rather hear his call to Ralph's Family

[Hawkster]

"If the June measure were to fail, Chaske said the committee would continue collecting petitions for an initiated measuire seeking to put the nickname into the state Constitution through a vote in November."

*Sigh*

This is what scares me. You have it worded backwards. If the June measure fails (more NO votes), the repeal fails, and the original April bill mandating the name stays. It takes a YES vote to get rid of the nickname. If it passes, then presumably the nickname at all cost crowd will come with a constitutional amendment.

Guys, we have to get this right or our own supporters are going to be confused on which way to vote.

[homer]

This is what scares me. You have it worded backwards. If the June measure fails (more NO votes), the repeal fails, and the original April bill mandating the name stays. It takes a YES vote to get rid of the nickname. If it passes, then presumably the nickname at all cost crowd will come with a constitutional amendment.

Guys, we have to get this right or our own supporters are going to be confused on which way to vote.

He was quoting the article in the paper.

[ScottM]

"We're in this for the long haul, and we're doing this for our people and ... the University of North Dakota," he said.

Yeah, right.

[puck]

This is what scares me. You have it worded backwards. If the June measure fails (more NO votes), the repeal fails, and the original April bill mandating the name stays. It takes a YES vote to get rid of the nickname. If it passes, then presumably the nickname at all cost crowd will come with a constitutional amendment.

Guys, we have to get this right or our own supporters are going to be confused on which way to vote.

I believe you have this backwards. In this case no means no. (nickname)

[homer]

Oh I agree, I think most hockey people will now start thinking straight, it's the "others" UND has to worry about.

UND always had to worry about the others, their opinion will be there regardless of what happens between now and june and will not change. Its about getting enough votes if it comes to that and Hakstol's thoughts on this will influence a lot of votes that were on the fence on the topic.

I've always been of the opinion that 25% of the voters will vote yes and 25% will vote no, no matter what further information they get between now and June. Its the middle 50% that will determine the outcome and Hakstol coming out and commenting will influence some of that 50%. Look at the influence he had with the e-mail that had his name on it. If he is on the "name must be changed" side, some former very recognizable players may step up and also join him. This will catch the attention of a lot of people.

[Blackheart]

I have not read or heard it yet - are there any keywords that could say what he really thinks or is he just being a good soldier for the program ? I'd rather hear his call to Ralph's Family

I'm guessing he was strongly encouraged by UND administration to come forward with this new and enlightened viewpoint...

[PhillySioux]

The white whale now is a letter from the Engelstad family.

[mikejm]

http://www.grandfork...icle/id/229558/

What color is the sky in their world?

In all fairness to John Chaske and the rest of the petition people, I agree with him "Who is really hurting the student athletes at UND? Where is the true source of this harm coming from? The real source of harm is the NCAA and its policies and sanctions against UND, not the Fighting Sioux name and symbol."

The problem with the statement is that — until he, his group, or a Federal court convinces the NCAA to change their stance — the harm is a foregone conclusion. All the wringing of hands and the gnashing of teeth in North Dakota is not going to change anything.

The change has to be accomplished in Indianapolis, IN.

[darell1976]

Dude, we get it, you hate Hak.

Seriously, he just spoke at the press conference, I am not sure what else you think he has to do. Would bet you that it will make the paper before the night ends. I would also bet you a beverage of your choice that the videos will be posted later on tonight on Sioux Sports.

You missed my whole post. I don't hate Hak, I am glad he finally came out and said where he stood on the name, I said the hockey only crowd (which is most of the people who want the name saved at all costs) need to be educated on the dangers the name has on sports other than hockey.

[UND92,96]

Frank Burggraf, Fargo, who played on Sioux hockey teams from 1978 to 1982 and is a member of the sponsoring committee for the petition drives, took issue with a letter distributed last week by UND Alumni Association leader Tim O'Keefe, who warned of risks to UND if the nickname controversy persists.

"He does not speak for all the alumni," Burggraf said, adding that he has "heard from people in all sports" who support his efforts on behalf of keeping the name.

He criticized O'Keefe and others who have spoken of what "could" or "might" happen to UND through NCAA sanctions, calling it "misrepresentation" and playing to fear.

I suppose ol' Frank is going to go after Hak next.

[darell1976]

Since you're such a smart s.o.b.,why don't you stop bloviating on here all day and go spread that message!

I take it you are a hockey only fan who wants to save the name at all costs?

[Goon]

You missed my whole post. I don't hate Hak, I am glad he finally came out and said where he stood on the name, I said the hockey only crowd (which is most of the people who want the name saved at all costs) need to be educated on the dangers the name has on sports other than hockey.

I know a lot of hockey fans that already know the name is going to cost UND and have frankly grown tired of this argument and would like to see it go away. I don't see a lot of UND hockey fans posting on SAB... I see a lot of people driving this debate that has never stepped foot in a classroom at UND... Most of us love the name and want to see the S.L. Tribe win the law suit and know that the Petition is the wrong way to go... I also don't think it's fair to blame this on the "Hockey crowd"... There is a lot of blame to go around all over the place. A lot of people knew the gig was up when the NCAA slapped Al Carlson at the NCAA headquarters.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Goon

[Benny Baker]

In all fairness to John Chaske and the rest of the petition people, I agree with him "Who is really hurting the student athletes at UND? Where is the true source of this harm coming from? The real source of harm is the NCAA and its policies and sanctions against UND, not the Fighting Sioux name and symbol."

The problem with the statement is that — until he, his group, or a Federal court convinces the NCAA to change their stance — the harm is a foregone conclusion. All the wringing of hands and the gnashing of teeth in North Dakota is not going to change anything.

The change has to be accomplished in Indianapolis, IN.

Credited Response. There is nothing inherent within the logo or nickname that is hurting student-athletes at UND. (see North Dakota athletics from 1930-2005). It's the external reactions by other institutions---the NCAA's sanctions, Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin's choice not to compete against UND.

[iluvdebbies]

I take it you are a hockey only fan who wants to save the name at all costs?

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm just trying to get the truly smart people, like yourself, to stop trying to convince chewy and fetch how wrong they are and go out and convince the other 16,998!

[darell1976]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm just trying to get the truly smart people, like yourself, to stop trying to convince chewy and fetch how wrong they are and go out and convince the other 16,998!

If their name is already on the petition its too late. I go to Facebook, and other websites and promote retiring the name in order to save UND athletics and to keep UND from getting booted from the BSC. Most don't take Fullerton seriously, or just laugh, thats fine. At least I tried.

[Hawkster]

I believe you have this backwards. In this case no means no. (nickname)

I'm not promising I have it right, but this is how I think it's interpretted. The original April bill forced the nickname, and the November bill repealed it. When a bill gets referred, the bill is stopped, but the wording on the ballet is essentially "Shall this bill be approved".

In this case, approval of the November bill and referal repeals the April mandate, thus discontinuing the name.

At any rate, it's going to be confusing, no doubt about it.

[Benny Baker]

Most don't take Fullerton seriously, or just laugh, thats fine. At least I tried.

I assume you place one of Fullerton's own athletic directors in that category as well. I suppose Wanless could be a liar though.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm not promising I have it right, but this is how I think it's interpretted. The original April bill forced the nickname, and the November bill repealed it. When a bill gets referred, the bill is stopped, but the wording on the ballet is essentially "Shall this bill be approved".

In this case, approval of the November bill and referal repeals the April mandate, thus discontinuing the name.

At any rate, it's going to be confusing, no doubt about it.

The best hope is that the NDSC tosses out both Carlson's Folly and the repeal law along with it. That would eliminate the need for a vote in June. Then it's just one message ... maybe.

[The Sicatoka]

I assume you place one of Fullerton's own athletic directors in that category as well. I suppose Wanless could be a liar though.

Wanless can suppose and speculate all he wants. I'll go with reality:

The NCAA has put entire states (Mississippi, South Carolina) on some ruthless sanctions. They have done it. They can do it. They will do it. Squashing UND doesn't merit a second thought to them.

And the Big Sky will not accept damaged goods (a program under sanctions) for the long haul. No one would.

[mikejm]

...slapped Al Carlson at the NCAA headquarters.

If only this was literally true.

[Goon]

If only this was literally true.

I have exceeded my cred or I would give you a 1+.

[Goon]

You missed my whole post. I don't hate Hak, I am glad he finally came out and said where he stood on the name, I said the hockey only crowd (which is most of the people who want the name saved at all costs) need to be educated on the dangers the name has on sports other than hockey.

I think he has been unfairly attacked as of late.

[darell1976]

I think he has been unfairly attacked as of late.

His silence or the "no comment" was what people didn't like. You are for keeping the name or for the retirement. There is no both. The NCAA doesn't believe in both. Now he finally gave his stance...which I am sure pissed some people off but at least he is honest about it.