Alumni Association begins campaign against nickname

[iramurphy]

The NCAA adopted the policy in 2005 which affected 19 institutions using Native American imagery. These schools were given until 2/1/2006 to obtain consent from a "namesake tribe". Two schools, Illinois and San Diego State were given exemptions because the Illinois tribe and Aztecs had become extinct. (I agree the policy is already a bit hypocritical). Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan all complied with the NCAA directive and thus face no sanctions. Pembroke apparently has permission or was given an exemption, i read the comments on our blogs but I didn't look that one up. The other schools are now in compliance. There was not a requirement initially to obtain permission from two tribes. UND and the State of N. Dak. sued in 2006 and would have won that initial lawsuit because the NCAA didnt' follow there own policy. They have since changed their bylaws so this policy will now stand up in court. In order to get an additional 3 years to obtain permission UND had to get the permission of two tribes. That was the trade off to get the extra time. The agreement is binding between the NCAA, UND and the SBoHE. We have not been able to get consent from Standing Rock and they are not receptive to either the SBoHE or UND attempts to sway that vote. The council claims they have voted against approval or voted against considering to vote on the issue 7 or 8 times and question the lack of respect shown them as a sovereign nation. In addition they have had two council elections in the last 4 years and the people of Standing Rock have twice elected councils with a majority of members who oppose giving consent. SBoHE Haugne stated that 6 of 8 districts at Standing Rock have voted to support the councils position.

The petition passed attempts a referendum to force UND to keep the name and this will be declared unconstitutional by the N. Dak Supreme Court. The danger is the referendum that threatens to change the constitution. That could be a disaster for UND and UND athletics. UND must belong to a conference and until we hear from the Big Sky that we are in, we must take the warnings from Fullerton seriously.

In addition the NCAA member schools voted 400 something to 6 to support the 2006 policy banning the name. The NCAA leadership has made it clear to UND and State of N.DAk. officials that they are not going to change their stance. They point out they have an agreement between the NCAA, the State of N. Dak. and the SBoHE negotiated by the AG of N.Dak. Anyone naive enough to think the NCAA is going to fold save successful litigation from the Spirit Lake Tribe?

The rhetoric about the Fighting Irish, Vikings etc. I believe should be valid. You either prohibit use of ethnic groups or you don't and you certainly shouldn't be able to single out one group. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court has previously ruled the NCAA can make up their own rules about membership simialr to your country club which can kick you out if you play golf without a shirt, throw your clubs, use vulgar language or other club rules that are unique to the club. Thus far they have sided with the NCAA when it comes to the issue of whether or not they are a monopoly. In essence they can take their ball and go home or let us play in their yard only by their rules. We can take it or leave it.

[Cratter]

Standing Rock, oddly enough, doesn't even entirely reside in North Dakota. Wonder why UND can't get approval?

like the rest, the ncaa wants a sioux tribe, the only one entirely in ND and closest to UND wants UND to use the their name,

but the NCAA says, "NO, we know better!"

WTF.

[iramurphy]

Standing Rock, oddly enough, doesn't even entirely reside in North Dakota. Wonder why UND can't get approval?

like the rest, the ncaa wants a sioux tribe, the only one entirely in ND and closest to UND wants UND to use the their name,

but the NCAA says, "NO, we know better!"

WTF.

That's why we are screwed.

[ScottM]

Regardless of the histrionics about "inconsistency", "fairness" or recycling idiotic legislation, at the end of the day, the state agreed to the terms of the terms of the settlement, and the NC$$ is not going to give in. Live with it.

[Benny Baker]

Regardless of the histrionics about "inconsistency", "fairness" or recycling idiotic legislation, at the end of the day, the state agreed to the terms of the terms of the settlement, and the NC$$ is not going to give in. Live with it.

At the end of the day, the State of North Dakota chose not to adopt a new nickname and are consequently facing the terms of the settlement. The NCAA will just have to live with it.

[The Sicatoka]

At risk of repeating iramurphy and ScottM, all that matters is the signed settlement agreement between the State of ND (by and through the SBHE and UND) and the NCAA.

In that it says get approval from the TRIBAL COUNCILS (not a vote, Council approval) at SL and SR or face sanctions ... and also be subject to the "best practices" portion of the agreement.

Best practices? What's that? That's where in addition to sanctions (no hosting post-season, no name, no logo at NCAA events) the NCAA can sabotage and subvert you with the membership by reminding the members (continually) that you're under sanction and not in the favor or good graces of the NCAA home office and that schools following "best practices" have "we don't schedule teams under sanction" policies ... like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa. It's clear that message has been delivered to the Big Sky by the NCAA. (And the Big Sky gets a big check from the NCAA MBB tournament annually, bigger than anything UND can deliver to them.)

It's insideous. It's the NCAA. And it's the way it is. And it can't be changed unless you take over control of the NCAA.

[puck]

At risk of repeating iramurphy and ScottM, all that matters is the signed settlement agreement between the State of ND (by and through the SBHE and UND) and the NCAA.

In that it says get approval from the TRIBAL COUNCILS (not a vote, Council approval) at SL and SR or face sanctions ... and also be subject to the "best practices" portion of the agreement.

Best practices? What's that? That's where in addition to sanctions (no hosting post-season, no name, no logo at NCAA events) the NCAA can sabotage and subvert you with the membership by reminding the members (continually) that you're under sanction and not in the favor or good graces of the NCAA home office and that schools following "best practices" have "we don't schedule teams under sanction" policies ... like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa. It's clear that message has been delivered to the Big Sky by the NCAA. (And the Big Sky gets a big check from the NCAA MBB tournament annually, bigger than anything UND can deliver to them.)

It's insideous. It's the NCAA. And it's the way it is. And it can't be changed unless you take over control of the NCAA.

The "best practices" provision is the death knell of UND athletics as we know them. Being blackballed by the NCAA might not be an immediate death, but certainly a slow fatal bleed.

[ScottM]

The "best practices" provision is the death knell of UND athletics as we know them. Being blackballed by the NCAA might not be an immediate death, but certainly a slow fatal bleed.

I believe that was the intent of the NC$$, and it goes back to my original hypothesis from 2007: Losing the Sioux moniker was/is the implicit price for going D1 in all sports. I believe it's also why UND was saddled with the "two tribes' approval" provision. The NC$$ did not want that "hostile and abusive" logo showing up on ESPN or anywhere else where their hypocrisy would be on full display.

This, of course, says nothing about Florida State's NC$$-approved "rider" driving a lance into the ground at mid-field on ABC, ESPN, etc,

[iramurphy]

At the end of the day, the State of North Dakota chose not to adopt a new nickname and are consequently facing the terms of the settlement. The NCAA will just have to live with it.

The NCAA has said repeatedly they can to live with it. They can afford to because they lose nothing. We can't afford to, because we lose too much, maybe everything. Why would anyone in their right mind want to subject our hockey teams (forget the other teams for now) to those sanctions? Don't forget the NCAA, as part of their policy, also encourages member institutions not to schedule teams on their sanction list. Over 400 member schools voted to support their policy. The list is growing. Anyone who thinks that the scheduling part of this sanction by itself won't hurt UND hockey is living in a bubble that does not allow logical discussion or thinking. You can't have ever coached or recruited at the college level. There are kids out there who do factor in who is on our schedule. Dont' forget how pissed we get when we lose a kid to Juniors in Canada. Don't kid yourself, every college hockey coach in the country with an IQ above 50 will use this as a tool against us. They can tell kids anything they wish about how this will hurt our scheduling. If you are going to continue to support the name despite NCAA sanctions then you are going to be part of a group of people who set UND hockey back 50 years and the Ralph in all its glory will not be enough to neutralize the damage.

The only way to fight the NCAA is by backing the litigation by the Spirit Lake tribe. I don't know if they will be able to force the NCAA to review and change their discriminatory policy against Native American names and logos, but changing the State consitution or trying to force UND to keep the name in face of these sanctions and penalities is not in the best interest of our hockey team and especially not our University or athletic dept. The high regard we hold our hockey team is not shared by everyone else in the country nor even in the hockey world. There are those who despise us because of our success and there are those who feel because we are from N. Dak. we are irrelevant. We all want to fight the injustice of the NCAA but sitting with an athletic dept. and hockey team in shambles with sword in hand standing on our principles is the wrong approach. We need to somehow live to fight another day. If we go down this path led by people who don't have a stake in this fight or have an axe to grind with either the SBoHE or UND we are going to get burned and once that happens it will be too late.

This name issue and issues with the SBoHE or legislature need to be separated from UND athletics so UND can move on with what is more important to UND and that is the viability of our hockey team and athletic dept. Those of you who don't care about atheltics, it will affect the viability or our University if we end up losing the standing and prestige our athletic teams now have. I have heard too many times that once we stand up to the NCAA or once we get a tribe to support us or once we get the legislature to pass a law etc,. the NCAA will back down and the conferences around the country wil want to take us in. That isn't happening and in fact no one other than Spirit Lake has stepped up to the plate. I appreciate that, but had they done so in 2005, we would have met the criteria the other schools did to keep the name. It is too late for that now.

[mikejm]

The only way to fight the NCAA is by backing the litigation by the Spirit Lake tribe.

Right on the money here, Ira.

[Benny Baker]

I believe that was the intent of the NC$$, and it goes back to my original hypothesis from 2007: Losing the Sioux moniker was/is the implicit price for going D1 in all sports. I believe it's also why UND was saddled with the "two tribes' approval" provision. The NC$$ did not want that "hostile and abusive" logo showing up on ESPN or anywhere else where their hypocrisy would be on full display.

This, of course, says nothing about Florida State's NC$$-approved "rider" driving a lance into the ground at mid-field on ABC, ESPN, etc,

I've always wondered how the NCAA ensures the viewers' understanding of these important distinctions: the Fighting Sioux name is hostile and abusive but the Seminoles name is sufficient, the Bradley Braves are fine but the Alcorn State Braves face sanctions, and all the while, the North Carolina-Pembroke Braves were exempted before the policy even went into place.

Great policy you put in place there, guys!

[82SiouxGuy]

I've always wondered how the NCAA ensures the viewers' understanding of these important distinctions: the Fighting Sioux name is hostile and abusive but the Seminoles name is sufficient, the Bradley Braves are fine but the Alcorn State Braves face sanctions, and all the while, the North Carolina-Pembroke Braves were exempted before the policy even went into place.

Great policy you put in place there, guys!

They aren't worried about the viewers understanding. Their goal is to limit the exposure, and to eventually eliminate the issue. Your deep concern for fairness or equality on this issue isn't of any concern for the NCAA. They have a long term goal and they are slowly working toward it.

[Benny Baker]

Your deep concern for fairness or equality on this issue isn't of any concern for the NCAA. They have a long term goal and they are slowly working toward it.

Clearly, did you really think I was trying to make a point to the NCAA by writing posts on an unofficial University of North Dakota athletic's message board? Come on, you're smarter than that . . . I think.

In terms of a long-term goal. I'd first say B.S. Seminoles, Fighting Irish, Chippewa, Ragin' Cajuns, Vikings, etc.---those are names that aren't going away. I know you may think that they are, but it's not going to happen. When the NCAA started this process in 2001, the only nicknames they considered were Native American based. Even if I were to agree with you about some alleged goal, I would really emphasize the word "slowly."

[MissSioux85]

Coach Hakstol breaks his silence

Via UNDSID on Twitter

Coach Hakstol at media day: Law mandating use of nickname/logo creates "insurmountable challenges" for athletics dept, student-athletes.

Hakstol discussing the issue right now. "To a certain degree it's my responsibility to speak to some of the facts as I see them."

Hakstol says he spoke with the Engelstad family earlier today out of respect. Speaks today on his own behalf.

Hakstol: "This is not a decision just about hockey. You have to consider all the other sports. This could be very damaging to them."

Video from media day should be available on FightingSioux.com later today.

[Goon]

For those that have been bagging on Coach Hakstol and saying he hasn't taken a stance on the nickname subejct, this is what the had coach had to say today on the nickname issue at the Wednesday Press Conference...

Jayson Hajdu @UND SID

Coach Hakstol at media day: Law mandating use of nickname/logo creates "insurmountable challenges" for athletics dept, student-athletes.

-----------

Jayson Hajdu (@UNDSID) Hakstol says he spoke with the Engelstad family earlier today out of respect. Speaks today on his own behalf.

-----------

Jayson Hajdu (@UNDSID) Hakstol: "This is not a decision just about hockey. You have to consider all the other sports. This could be very damaging to them."

Edited February 15, 2012 by Goon

[Benny Baker]

For those that have been bagging on Coach Hakstol and saying he hasn't taken a stance on the nickname subejct, this is what the had coach had to say today on the nickname issue at the Wednesday Press Conference...

About time.

[darell1976]

Now that Hak sees the danger to other sports...how about educating the hockey only crowd on this.

[Goon]

Now that Hak sees the danger to other sports...how about educating the hockey only crowd on this.

Dude, we get it, you hate Hak.

Seriously, he just spoke at the press conference, I am not sure what else you think he has to do. Would bet you that it will make the paper before the night ends. I would also bet you a beverage of your choice that the videos will be posted later on tonight on Sioux Sports.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Goon

[Bison Dan]

Now that Hak sees the danger to other sports...how about educating the hockey only crowd on this.

I don't think it's the hockey crowd that you have to worry about but the uninformed voter that only see's the big bad NCAA trying to force it's will on UND.

[iluvdebbies]

Now that Hak sees the danger to other sports...how about educating the hockey only crowd on this.

Since you're such a smart s.o.b.,why don't you stop bloviating on here all day and go spread that message!

[jodcon]

I don't think it's the hockey crowd that you have to worry about but the uninformed voter that only see's the big bad NCAA trying to force it's will on UND.

Ultimately that's true but we can't deny that Hak's opinion carries a lot of weight in the nickname issue, both with 'hockey only' fans and the general public.

[PhillySioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/229558/

What color is the sky in their world?

To quote Andy Dufresne, " How could you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?"

[Bison Dan]

Ultimately that's true but we can't deny that Hak's opinion carries a lot of weight in the nickname issue, both with 'hockey only' fans and the general public.

Oh I agree, I think most hockey people will now start thinking straight, it's the "others" UND has to worry about.

[iramurphy]

Appreciate Dave's support and insight. He sums things up pretty clearly, the threat to UND and UND athletics has become too serious and the name and logo and what we like about it, does not out weigh the risk to UND and UND athletics including hockey.

[jodcon]

Appreciate Dave's support and insight. He sums things up pretty clearly, the threat to UND and UND athletics has become too serious and the name and logo and what we like about it, does not out weigh the risk to UND and UND athletics including hockey.

And some will now realize this for the first time.