UND's New Hockey Conference

[Goon]

I agree, this NCHC is HUGE, we don't NEED anyone at this point, perhaps we wait for a future program that would bring national exposure like Iowa State, St. Thomas, Marquette, Colorado, Texas, or a PAC 10 school.

I will predict that there will be 8-10 teams in the National before they play their first game.

[IrishSiouxFan]

I will predict that there will be 8-10 teams in the National before they play their first game.

I could easily see 8, but 10 is pushing it. Out of curiosity who do you foresee the next 2-4 teams being?

[Goon]

I could easily see 8, but 10 is pushing it. Out of curiosity who do you foresee the next 2-4 teams being?

I was going out on a limb not much of a stretch between 8 and 10 teams... So if it's only 8 I would still be close.

[The Sicatoka]

If Notre Dame plays the "we're Notre Dame" card, I'd rather see the NCHC pick up the remaining MAC schools (WMU and BGSU).

[UNDColorado]

If Notre Dame plays the "we're Notre Dame" card, I'd rather see the NCHC pick up the remaining MAC schools (WMU and BGSU).

I agree, this isn't football and for all I know we probably have more in common with the MAC schools.

[IrishSiouxFan]

I was going out on a limb not much of a stretch between 8 and 10 teams... So if it's only 8 I would still be close.

I'm thinking WMU and Notre Dame, possibly BGSU if the Irish decide not to join. Unless teams like Air Force, BU, BC, MAin, or New Hampshire want in (no likely), we should leave it at either 6 or 8 teams and begin encouraging schools like Texas, California, and Iowa State to make the jump.

[UNDColorado]

And you are correct. I can't separate the fact that my own personal preferences may leach into my opinions from time to time. I would think, however, that there are more here in MN than in CO. But your point is still valid for the many UND fans in the CO. area.

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MN definitely has more alum then CO, no doubt; personal preferences leach in all our posts . But I think UND is trying to align themselves with schools that are willing to invest in growth and long term success. I just don't think St. Cloud fits that mold at all. They suck at d2 sports and don't seem to be truly looking to lead the pack they are currently in. Point being is that aligning with all around D1 schools now is best for our future; as we all know the future is very unpredictable in all college sports. This is definitely personal, but all the past Sioux protests and presidential dialogue at SCSU are enough for me to simply move on without them; while still playing them in non-conference.

[dakota fairways]

One thing that Notre Dame does have correct is keeping the number of teams in the conference low, keeping out-of-conference options more wide open.

[jodcon]

One thing that Notre Dame does have correct is keeping the number of teams in the conference low, keeping out-of-conference options more wide open.

That's true, anything over 8 teams cuts your non-conference games to almost nothing unless you go with 2 divisions, and you almost need 12 for that to be decent.

[Goon]

I agree, this isn't football and for all I know we probably have more in common with the MAC schools.

We have more in common with WMU, ND and BGSU than we do with SCSU. Personally I tired of hearing SCSU fans tell us that they have more to offer the NCHC than Miami, WMU and or BGSU. The facts don't back up the argument. This comment is an example of why I want nothing to do with JBSU anymore more, I am tired of seeing them. They are a second rate university and will always be.

WMU is behind SCSU and probably BSU for their hockey program. Mankato is bad, but they're not that much worst than WMU. Go back and look at the last 12 years and see where WMU final ranks to SCSU and BSU... You're probably 1-12 in that area.. I hope WMU does well and its great to die hard fan, I would rather see WMU win it all before UND, MINN or Mich, but to make it sound WMU is far ahead any future WCHA team is laughable.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Goon

[SiouxFanatic]

We have more in common with WMU, ND and BGSU than we do with SCSU. Personally I tired of hearing SCSU fans tell us that they have more to offer the NCHC than Miami, WMU and or BGSU. The facts don't back up the argument. This comment is an example of why I want nothing to do with JBSU anymore more, I am tired of seeing them. They are a second rate university and will always be.

I have to agree, SCSU can go pound sand. I've always thought UND got the short end of the stick in regards to the "rival" pairings within the WCHA. I'd rather have had us paired with UMD versus SCSU.

[Sioux-cia]

Where can I go to cast my vote for Bemidji?

[star2city]

Notre Dame is probably attempting to stick it to the NCHC with monetary and TV requirements (kind of like the deal ND gets in the Big East).

What really doomed the CCHA is that WMU wouldn't commit to it, with a potential NHCH bid out there. Without WMU, Ferris St had no interest in sticking around, and the AHA4 was not going to move over either. Notre Dame is really the program at fault here by delaying their decision, and as a result UAH probably goes down the tubes. UAH would have likely been in a new CCHA if WMU had committed to the CCHA (assuming ND went to the NCHC).

If WMU and BGSU commit to the WCHA, ND would effectively own the CCHA autobid : ND could start its own catholic conference from select ECAC, HE, and AHA schools, mostly play Big Ten nonconference, and host the post season tournament . The conference tournament and pairwise ratings would give ND a decent shot at the NCAAs.

[Goon]

ND could start its own catholic conference from select ECAC, HE, and AHA schools, mostly play Big Ten nonconference, and host the post season tournament . The conference tournament and pairwise ratings would give ND a decent shot at the NCAAs.

Yeah, ok... If you read the various news stories that has come out recently, it says that being a member of HE isn't likely to happen... I interested in learning what makes you think that scenario is going to happen?

[star2city]

You misread what I posted: ND could sponsor a Catholic league using the autobid from the CCHA. (ND if it leaves the CCHA last, it could invite anyone who would accept.) Who would accept? Canisius, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris (not Catholic but would accept) and possibly Army / AFA or even UAH. ND wouldn't want a full round robin schedule with those schools: just two games each (but the other schools would play 4 against each other) and then schedule primarily the B1G, so a conference like that would be unbalanced on purpose for ND's benefit. Conference championship tournament in South Bend with the winner getting the autobid. The other schools would play a full round robin. Ideally ND would want Merrimack and Providence, but those two just aren't leaving HE.

ND can't be a true indie in hockey, as there would be 2 or 3 weeks in March when there would be no ND matches. ND needs those March dates for its new cable network and wants as many games as possible against "marquee" college names in the B1G. It also wants a "give me" autobid with its own home conference tournament in which it would be heavily favored.

[dmksioux]

You misread what I posted: ND could sponsor a Catholic league using the autobid from the CCHA. (ND if it leaves the CCHA last, it could invite anyone who would accept.) Who would accept? Canisius, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris (not Catholic but would accept) and possibly Army / AFA or even UAH. ND wouldn't want a full round robin schedule with those schools: just two games each (but the other schools would play 4 against each other) and then schedule primarily the B1G, so a conference like that would be unbalanced on purpose for ND's benefit. Conference championship tournament in South Bend with the winner getting the autobid. The other schools would play a full round robin. Ideally ND would want Merrimack and Providence, but those two just aren't leaving HE.

ND can't be a true indie in hockey, as there would be 2 or 3 weeks in March when there would be no ND matches. ND needs those March dates for its new cable network and wants as many games as possible against "marquee" college names in the B1G. It also wants a "give me" autobid with its own home conference tournament in which it would be heavily favored.

Ive seen this speculated in a few spots before but there is one thing I don't understand. Supposedly the B1G wants ND to join their conference for all sports but ND has thus refused. Why would the B1G then go ahead and help ND fill out their hockey schedule? It seems as though ND would benefit from that type of schedule more than the B1G schools. Why would the B1G go out of there way to help ND after ND continuously rejects a B1G invite? Is there something I'm missing here?

[star2city]

ND schedules Mich, Mich St, and Purdue every year in FB. The B1G hasn't stopped that despite the animosity between Delaney and ND. A B1G hockey conference will only have 20 dates and each school needs 14 more. B1G wants to schedule ND to keep B1G rivalries, making it easier for ND to say yes one day.

[dmksioux]

ND schedules Mich, Mich St, and Purdue every year in FB. The B1G hasn't stopped that despite the animosity between Delaney and ND. A B1G hockey conference will only have 20 dates and each school needs 14 more. B1G wants to schedule ND to keep B1G rivalries, making it easier for ND to say yes one day.

I guess that makes sense. But in doing so, it's allowing ND to stay independent (in football). At some point, if the B1G really wanted ND in their conference, wouldn't they encourage the opposite to take place?

[SiouxFanatic]

You misread what I posted: ND could sponsor a Catholic league using the autobid from the CCHA. (ND if it leaves the CCHA last, it could invite anyone who would accept.) Who would accept? Canisius, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris (not Catholic but would accept) and possibly Army / AFA or even UAH. ND wouldn't want a full round robin schedule with those schools: just two games each (but the other schools would play 4 against each other) and then schedule primarily the B1G, so a conference like that would be unbalanced on purpose for ND's benefit. Conference championship tournament in South Bend with the winner getting the autobid. The other schools would play a full round robin. Ideally ND would want Merrimack and Providence, but those two just aren't leaving HE.

ND can't be a true indie in hockey, as there would be 2 or 3 weeks in March when there would be no ND matches. ND needs those March dates for its new cable network and wants as many games as possible against "marquee" college names in the B1G. It also wants a "give me" autobid with its own home conference tournament in which it would be heavily favored.

Are you sure about this or are you just making this up? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that Notre Dame could just do that. If that was even remotely possible, I'm pretty sure it would've been mentioned in the news and I also doubt the CCHA leftover schools would just let Notre Dame "take" the CCHA autobid to make its' own conference.

I'm all fine with hypothesizing but I just don't see this happening. It is independent or NCHC for Notre Dame.

[IrishSiouxFan]

Personally, I think that Notre Dame will join the NCHC until the SEC, Big10, Big12, Big East, PAC 10 and ACC start forming "Super Conferences", at that point Notre Dame will find themselves with a gun to their head and join the Big 10. Then we will have to find a new replacement, hopefully we can look to schools like Iowa State, Texas, or Cal instead of settling for schools from the WCHA. Just my opinion, we will see shortly how Texas A&M will affect the world of college athletics.

[The Sicatoka]

About a decade ago there was a guy around here that kept saying the superconferences are going to end up doing their own thing for their own reasons sooner or later. He figured it would be because Division I (primarily FBS) was getting watered down in their eyes and they didn't want to keep sharing the revenues (with the wannabees) that they feel they are the ones generating and should be keeping all of.

Now we see superconferences with their own television networks. And we are starting to hear rumblings of them wanting new rules that only they could afford (full-cost scholarships and such). Seems to me they are playing their own game for their own reasons.

Back then people said that guy was nuts and nothing would ever change.

Tell that to Nebraska in the same conference as Minnesota. Tell that to Colorado and Utah in the PAC-10 ... er, 12, uh, whatever.

Who was that guy again ... oh, ... wait ...

[star2city]

Are you sure about this or are you just making this up? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that Notre Dame could just do that. If that was even remotely possible, I'm pretty sure it would've been mentioned in the news and I also doubt the CCHA leftover schools would just let Notre Dame "take" the CCHA autobid to make its' own conference.

I'm all fine with hypothesizing but I just don't see this happening. It is independent or NCHC for Notre Dame.

The only schools left that have any say about the future of the CCHA are Notre Dame, Bowling Green, and WMU. The other 8 CCHA schools - who have all left - have abdicated the right to speak or vote about its future. In almost any conference , a school loses their vote on any expansion issues (and almost any other vote) when it leaves. The way the NCAA bylaws are now written, one school left in a conference - if it invites enough schools to retain the autobid - can save a conference and preserve the autobid. WMU and Bowling Green would have to vote to dissolve the conference prior to them leaving (thereby outvoting ND), which may still be possible. The CCHA schools should have voted for an actual merger with the WCHA if they had wanted the CCHA autobid to disappear. Instead, the WCHA offered individual schools bids - but did not technically merge with the CCHA. Right now, any of ND, WMU, or BGSU can still claim the CCHA autobid - and use it to recreate a conference - if any of those three are the last standing under the CCHA umbrella.

I didn't write this was going to happen - just that it was possible and that certain schools (mainly Catholic ones - thnk Holy Cross, Niagara, Mercyhurst, Canisius) would actually be interested to playing second fiddle to ND in a ND conference. By only having 12 designated conference games, ND could play the B1G and BC, Providence, and Merrimack and whoever else all it wants and still have the benefit of a conference tournament and autobid.. With that type arrangement, ND's pairwise could be very strong even if it blew the conference tournament in South Bend.

IF ND turns down the NCHC and goes independent, what I would like to see is that WMU and BGSU invite all the NCHC schools into the CCHA, rename the CCHA the NCHC, and therefore keep the autobid. Such a manuever is called a reverse takeover in the corporate world - but could also apply here. That way, the NCHC playoff champ would gain an autobid the first and second year of the conference.

[SiouxFanatic]

Thanks for the clarification and to which I say let ND go independent.

[star2city]

WCHA needs a DI school to maintain vote at DI meetings

If the WCHA doesn't gain either WMU or BGSU, it will lose it's right to vote at DI meetings regarding hockey issues:

Interestingly, the nine schools are all Division II schools that have Division I hockey programs. Western Michigan and Bowling Green are Division I across the board. An MSU official recently told me that it would be nice to have a DI school in the WCHA, as it would give the league a vote during NCAA DI meetings.

[Smoggy]

IF ND turns down the NCHC and goes independent, what I would like to see is that WMU and BGSU invite all the NCHC schools into the CCHA, rename the CCHA the NCHC, and therefore keep the autobid. Such a manuever is called a reverse takeover in the corporate world - but could also apply here. That way, the NCHC playoff champ would gain an autobid the first and second year of the conference.

If this happened would all the CCHA commish and staff stay in place?

And no way does the NCAA not give NCHC and B1G an auto bid. They need those teams and their fans in the tourney. I don't think the NCHC needs an auto bid, but the B1G on the other hand...