Kelley has deceived the media and you

[star2city]

Are North Dakotan's really that gullible to fall for Kelley's fables? Why are so many normally reasonable on this board believing Kelley, when Kelley has purposely betrayed UND athletics in the past in order to oust the Sioux name.

If Kelley had a similar reputation with money as he does with the Sioux name, Kelley would have swindled you all out of your fortunes. But the media and North Dakotan's are allowing Kelley to swindle the Sioux name out of our legacy.

Wake up people. Demand integrity in our leadership and demand answers from the media.

FACT: Douple has accused Kelley of conniving a story about the nickname to prevent UND from gaining Summit League affiliation. Douple was double-crossed by Kelley, so Douple had motivation for making the accusation. If Kelley hadn't denied the rumor, Kelley would have had to resign.

To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss.

FACT: Kelley has gone on radio and stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted on the Sioux name. Fullerton has emphatically denied that this has already happened. In fact, Kelley has said through a spokesman that the Big Sky Presidents voted, unbeknownst to him (Kelley), so Kelley heard it second hand. Someone is lying again.

FACT; Fullerton wants to add Idaho and Utah State to the Big Sky, and then go to two divisions: one FCS and one FBS. Every single school in the Big Sky would be needed for this goal to be accomplished. UND's membership is absolutely vital to this goal.

FACT; The biggest issue prior to the Big Sky meetings was the fate of the conference tournaments: would it be on campus or would it be in a secondary location like Las Vegas? Fullerton wanted campus locations. Numerous Big Sky Presidents have objected to traveling to certain locations on short notice: like Grand Forks, where fares are outrageous with less than a weeks notice.

FACT: Fullerton has stated that UND may not be able to host conference tournaments: (To be revealed: ostensibly because of the nickname but really because of the economics of the fares.) The Big Sky Presidents may vote on this issue this fall.

FACT: Kelley himself has said that the Big Sky Presidents didn't make a big issue out of the Sioux name, while he (Kelley) was present.

FACT: The media has not quoted a single Big Sky President to verify anything that transpired at the Big Sky meetings.

FACT: All the information we have from the Big Sky is from Kelley and from Fullerton, but even those versions differ from each other.

FACT: Not a single Big Sky school has an anti-nickname measure like Minnesota. In order for these Presidents to even vote on such a matter, most would want and need authorization from their own schools and government.

FACT: The media campaign that Kelley has launched is straight from a political attack manual.

FACT: No one in the media has even asked basic questions: like did Kelley have input into Fullerton's letter.

FACT: The Big Sky has no policy on Indian nicknames, even after the meeting.

FACT: The NCAA stated in it's press release that the Big Sky had a nickname policy that agreed with its own.

FACT: The NCAA received faulty information somewhere. How embarrassing for such an esteemed organization.

Who fed the NCAA faulty information? That person is in big big trouble. Who could it be?

Trusting Kelley is a mark of shame on this University and on us.

[Chewey]

Are North Dakotan's really that gullible to fall for Kelley's fables? Why are so many normally reasonable on this board believing Kelley, when Kelley has purposely betrayed UND athletics in the past in order to oust the Sioux name.

If Kelley had a similar reputation with money as he does with the Sioux name, Kelley would have swindled you all out of your fortunes. But the media and North Dakotan's are allowing Kelley to swindle the Sioux name out of our legacy.

Wake up people. Demand integrity in our leadership and demand answers from the media.

FACT: Douple has accused Kelley of conniving a story about the nickname to prevent UND from gaining Summit League affiliation. Douple was double-crossed by Kelley, so Douple had motivation for making the accusation. If Kelley hadn't denied the rumor, Kelley would have had to resign.

To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss.

FACT: Kelley has gone on radio and stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted on the Sioux name. Fullerton has emphatically denied that this has already happened. In fact, Kelley has said through a spokesman that the Big Sky Presidents voted, unbeknownst to him (Kelley), so Kelley heard it second hand. Someone is lying again.

FACT; Fullerton wants to add Idaho and Utah State to the Big Sky, and then go to two divisions: one FCS and one FBS. Every single school in the Big Sky would be needed for this goal to be accomplished. UND's membership is absolutely vital to this goal.

FACT; The biggest issue prior to the Big Sky meetings was the fate of the conference tournaments: would it be on campus or would it be in a secondary location like Las Vegas? Fullerton wanted campus locations. Numerous Big Sky Presidents have objected to traveling to certain locations on short notice: like Grand Forks, where fares are outrageous with less than a weeks notice.

FACT: Fullerton has stated that UND may not be able to host conference tournaments: (To be revealed: ostensibly because of the nickname but really because of the economics of the fares.) The Big Sky Presidents may vote on this issue this fall.

FACT: Kelley himself has said that the Big Sky Presidents didn't make a big issue out of the Sioux name, while he (Kelley) was present.

FACT: The media has not quoted a single Big Sky President to verify anything that transpired at the Big Sky meetings.

FACT: All the information we have from the Big Sky is from Kelley and from Fullerton, but even those versions differ from each other.

FACT: Not a single Big Sky school has an anti-nickname measure like Minnesota. In order for these Presidents to even vote on such a matter, most would want and need authorization from their own schools and government.

FACT: The media campaign that Kelley has launched is straight from a political attack manual.

FACT: No one in the media has even asked basic questions: like did Kelley have input into Fullerton's letter.

Trusting Kelley is a mark of shame on this University and on us.

Excellent post, Star. Couldn't agree more.

[star2city]

Excellent post, Star. Couldn't agree more.

Added a few more lines about the information fed to the NCAA. How could the NCAA sent out a press release stating that the Big Sky has a policy, and not even check with the Big Sky? The Big Sky could have clearly answered that no such policy existed. Is the NCAA so quick to send out press relases, that it doesn't even check facts? Or did the NCAA want to bully the Big Sky into implementing one?

Kelley's resignation is imminent.

[The Sicatoka]

Al Carlson put it "the well has been poisoned".

I'll say the bell has been rung.

You can't unring a bell.

Al Carlson's bill was a renig on a legal agreement.

That's not how North Dakotans do business.

There's no honor in that.

The NCAA won't change.

UND will have to.

Accept it.

[darell1976]

Al Carlson put it "the well has been poisoned".

I'll say the bell has been rung.

You can't unring a bell.

Al Carlson's bill was a renig on a legal agreement.

That's not how North Dakotans do business.

There's no honor in that.

The NCAA won't change.

UND will have to.

Accept it.

I agree the clock is at 00:00 in the 4th quarter. GAME OVER! Time to move on.

[UND1983]

Kelley isnt going anywhere.

[rochsioux]

Al Carlson's bill was a renig on a legal agreement.

That's not how North Dakotans do business.

There's no honor in that.

I don't believe the agreement and the efforts to get the nickname approved were done in good faith.

Therefore I have no problem with any attempt to get that agreement changed or invalidated.

[Dagger]

Al Carlson was the poison in this situation.

[PhillySioux]

I don't believe the agreement and the efforts to get the nickname approved were done in good faith.

Therefore I have no problem with any attempt to get that agreement changed or invalidated.

What does that mean? And who was acting in bad faith? The republican AG that signed the settlement and recommended the settlement to the board?

[dakota fairways]

... To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss...

Sorry, Star, I don't follow this connection. How is the NDSBoHE Douple's boss? To make that connection through NDSU's (& UND's pending) conference affiliation and the presidents of those institutions seems to be a bit of a stretch.

[Hawkster]

Added a few more lines about the information fed to the NCAA. How could the NCAA sent out a press release stating that the Big Sky has a policy, and not even check with the Big Sky? The Big Sky could have clearly answered that no such policy existed. Is the NCAA so quick to send out press relases, that it doesn't even check facts? Or did the NCAA want to bully the Big Sky into implementing one?

Kelley's resignation is imminent.

Care to supply proof to all those "facts"? You just keep throwing out stuff with no proof and hope something hits the target. I suggest you go with the flow because the train isn't going to stop, especially at this late point in time.

[tnt]

Care to supply proof to all those "facts"? You just keep throwing out stuff with no proof and hope something hits the target. I suggest you go with the flow because the train isn't going to stop, especially at this late point in time.

Don't want to address the "facts" part of your post, but I think what he is saying is that your remark about the train going is exactly what Kelley wanted, to get people so worried that they would not follow through on the extra time to make one final effort with the nickname. I have been a believer that it was basically gone when they gave up the lawsuit, so I am not naive to what is going to be reality, but one does have to wonder a bit about who is telling the truth -- because flat out, someone is lying-- and we know that is a fact.

[The Sicatoka]

... -- because flat out, someone is lying-- and we know that is a fact.

Well, that's the NCAA when they called such monikers "hostile and abusive".

But the NCAA is too big to fail so they won't be allowed to.

[the green team]

It is one thing to be anonymous on this site, but you start throwing things out that tries to insinuate that a lone individual is responsible for this- or at least is most responsible for this- is a pretty bold accusation. If that is indeed the case, I would recommend actually putting your name to something like that. Own it, stand by it, I would if I'm going to throw something like that out there-don't just throw it out behind a moniker- that's pretty easy to do without having to be called to prove what you have to say, I'm just saying provide all the evidence for it. It's like when Al Carlson was on Hennen the other day and he used that phrase "poisoning of the wells" what was disappointing in that whole conversation was that Mr. Hennen never said..."that's a bold accusation, do you have any evidence of this" he never did- he just jumped on the let's contribute to the conspiracy bandwagon.

[Matt]

Whose word are you taking in this Star, Kelley or Douple? It seems like you trust Douple more today, but reading your past posts about him that's hard for me to believe.

[PhillySioux]

Are North Dakotan's really that gullible to fall for Kelley's fables? Why are so many normally reasonable on this board believing Kelley, when Kelley has purposely betrayed UND athletics in the past in order to oust the Sioux name.

If Kelley had a similar reputation with money as he does with the Sioux name, Kelley would have swindled you all out of your fortunes. But the media and North Dakotan's are allowing Kelley to swindle the Sioux name out of our legacy.

Wake up people. Demand integrity in our leadership and demand answers from the media.

FACT: Douple has accused Kelley of conniving a story about the nickname to prevent UND from gaining Summit League affiliation. Douple was double-crossed by Kelley, so Douple had motivation for making the accusation. If Kelley hadn't denied the rumor, Kelley would have had to resign.

To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss.

FACT: Kelley has gone on radio and stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted on the Sioux name. Fullerton has emphatically denied that this has already happened. In fact, Kelley has said through a spokesman that the Big Sky Presidents voted, unbeknownst to him (Kelley), so Kelley heard it second hand. Someone is lying again.

FACT; Fullerton wants to add Idaho and Utah State to the Big Sky, and then go to two divisions: one FCS and one FBS. Every single school in the Big Sky would be needed for this goal to be accomplished. UND's membership is absolutely vital to this goal.

FACT; The biggest issue prior to the Big Sky meetings was the fate of the conference tournaments: would it be on campus or would it be in a secondary location like Las Vegas? Fullerton wanted campus locations. Numerous Big Sky Presidents have objected to traveling to certain locations on short notice: like Grand Forks, where fares are outrageous with less than a weeks notice.

FACT: Fullerton has stated that UND may not be able to host conference tournaments: (To be revealed: ostensibly because of the nickname but really because of the economics of the fares.) The Big Sky Presidents may vote on this issue this fall.

FACT: Kelley himself has said that the Big Sky Presidents didn't make a big issue out of the Sioux name, while he (Kelley) was present.

FACT: The media has not quoted a single Big Sky President to verify anything that transpired at the Big Sky meetings.

FACT: All the information we have from the Big Sky is from Kelley and from Fullerton, but even those versions differ from each other.

FACT: Not a single Big Sky school has an anti-nickname measure like Minnesota. In order for these Presidents to even vote on such a matter, most would want and need authorization from their own schools and government.

FACT: The media campaign that Kelley has launched is straight from a political attack manual.

FACT: No one in the media has even asked basic questions: like did Kelley have input into Fullerton's letter.

FACT: The Big Sky has no policy on Indian nicknames, even after the meeting.

FACT: The NCAA stated in it's press release that the Big Sky had a nickname policy that agreed with its own.

FACT: The NCAA received faulty information somewhere. How embarrassing for such an esteemed organization.

Who fed the NCAA faulty information? That person is in big big trouble. Who could it be?

Trusting Kelley is a mark of shame on this University and on us.

There a few themes here that seem to be at odds with each other. You seem to imply that 1) Kelley was/is pulling BigSky strings in order turn up the pressure towards nickname retirement; and that 2) the BigSky is all too happy to be influenced by Kelley because secretly they want UND out due to expenses; and that 3) the BigSky needs UND terribly because of impending Idaho/Utah St invites.

Unless you are mocking the conspiracy theorist/Kelley hater/We should hire the bones of Tom Clifford types. In which case, ignore my comment and

[SIOUXFAN97]

im starting to actually believe douple now more and more considering what happened when mr. berkeley came back from the bsc meetings and all of sudden......................

[yababy8]

Here are your facts:

Following the impressive vote by the Spirit Lake people and the attempt for a democratic process at Standing Rock which were circumvented by politics, kellys position should have been At LEAST to come out publicly and to say to the ncaa,

"hey guys I think that we should reconsider the situation we have here at north dakota. The large majority of Sioux Native Americans here in our state feel that the name should stay. THEREFORE pushing for a name change may infact be the WRONG" thing to do. And I know the NCAA isn't in the business of doing the wrong thing, right?"

Needless to say kelly did not do that. Further the incident with Duple where are the odds on favorite for the contest of who lied, falls squarely in the lap of Kelly 4 a couple of reasons:

(1). Had kelly overtly lied, I have to believe that he would have been fired or at least been forced to retract that statement. Neither happened.

(2). It is not very likely that Duple would have made that up out of the blue. there are some people in the world that would overly makeup stuff like that, but they're usually not commissioners of a league in the ncaa.

Kelly needs to be let go there's no question about that.

The fact that he has never advocated for the name in any situation speak every volume needed to know where this guys allegiance lies.

He is nothing more than an agent for the name change forces which lurk among the rational fair minded Sioux fans who fight for what is RIGHT!

BTW my name is Michael Scudder.

[star2city]

Whose word are you taking in this Star, Kelley or Douple? It seems like you trust Douple more today, but reading your past posts about him that's hard for me to believe.

Douple's original story about the nickname preventing UND from gaining admittance to the Summit League was always contrived. The nickname has been unfairly vilified for years, and sooner or later people began to believe it.

As Carlson stated, a now open dirty little secret is that certain members of the SBoHE always wanted the nickname gone. The SBoHE and Chapman hatched the nickname scheme with Douple, with Kelley complicit in it.

Since Douple's continued employment relies on NDSU's support at Summit President's meetings, Douple couldn't go out and expose the whole story, only the part about Kelley being involved. The SBoHE would have demanded Douple's scalp if Douple told more. Many of the SBoHE members probably never knew about any fix, including Shaft and Espegaard.

One of the reasons that the nickname vote was so lopsided in the legislature was that legislators were so outraged by SBoHE nickname fix. That as well as the Chapman situation has totally antagonized the legislature toward the SBoHE.

There a few themes here that seem to be at odds with each other. You seem to imply that 1) Kelley was/is pulling BigSky strings in order turn up the pressure towards nickname retirement; and that 2) the BigSky is all too happy to be influenced by Kelley because secretly they want UND out due to expenses; and that 3) the BigSky needs UND terribly because of impending Idaho/Utah St invites.

The expenses that the Big Sky is concerned about are potential for UND to host a post-season tournament. Since there is often only five days to purchase a airplane ticket, there wouldn't be any cheap fares. For regular conference games, the air expenses are much much less, as those travel arrangements are made months in advance.

For Fullerton's dream of an FBS/FCS conference to happen, UND has to be part of the conference: nickname or not.

[yababy8]

Al Carlson put it "the well has been poisoned".

I'll say the bell has been rung.

You can't unring a bell.

Al Carlson's bill was a renig on a legal agreement.

That's not how North Dakotans do business.

There's no honor in that.

The NCAA won't change.

UND will have to.

Accept it.

Hey Sicatoca, u should get a job with the NCAA since u are in the Business of telling others what to do.

Thank you anyway, I have no interest in accepting it. Just like I have no interest in accepting uneducated fatscists telling me and other fair minded rational people who happen to love the Sioux name and all that it symbolizes that we must give away what we love for no good reason.

[star2city]

It is one thing to be anonymous on this site, but you start throwing things out that tries to insinuate that a lone individual is responsible for this- or at least is most responsible for this- is a pretty bold accusation. If that is indeed the case, I would recommend actually putting your name to something like that. Own it, stand by it, I would if I'm going to throw something like that out there-don't just throw it out behind a moniker- that's pretty easy to do without having to be called to prove what you have to say, I'm just saying provide all the evidence for it. It's like when Al Carlson was on Hennen the other day and he used that phrase "poisoning of the wells" what was disappointing in that whole conversation was that Mr. Hennen never said..."that's a bold accusation, do you have any evidence of this" he never did- he just jumped on the let's contribute to the conspiracy bandwagon.

The facts have been laid out, and Kelley's inconsistencies stick out like a sore thumb. Must be tough if you have an emotional attachment to Kelley, but life is full of surprises and people disappointments: deal with them.

My background is in highly hazardous chemical manufacturing. In that environment, layer after layer of precautions are designed, checked, and verified. The most difficult issue are people issues: especially liars. In my world, liars tell lies that kill people and harm society. I have zero tolerance for liars. In the academic world maybe, liars are unfortunately tolerated. If you have a problem questioning Kelley's ethics, you have a problem.

[the green team]

Here are your facts:

Following the impressive vote by the Spirit Lake people and the attempt for a democratic process at Standing Rock which were circumvented by politics, kellys position should have been At LEAST to come out publicly and to say to the ncaa,

"hey guys I think that we should reconsider the situation we have here at north dakota. The large majority of Sioux Native Americans here in our state feel that the name should stay. THEREFORE pushing for a name change may infact be the WRONG" thing to do. And I know the NCAA isn't in the business of doing the wrong thing, right?"

Needless to say kelly did not do that. Further the incident with Duple where are the odds on favorite for the contest of who lied, falls squarely in the lap of Kelly 4 a couple of reasons:

(1). Had kelly overtly lied, I have to believe that he would have been fired or at least been forced to retract that statement. Neither happened.

(2). It is not very likely that Duple would have made that up out of the blue. there are some people in the world that would overly makeup stuff like that, but they're usually not commissioners of a league in the ncaa.

Kelly needs to be let go there's no question about that.

The fact that he has never advocated for the name in any situation speak every volume needed to know where this guys allegiance lies.

He is nothing more than an agent for the name change forces which lurk among the rational fair minded Sioux fans who fight for what is RIGHT!

BTW my name is Michael Scudder.

Do you know a lot of Conference Commissioners? I don't, but I happen to believe that behavior wise that they are no different than a crafty politician. Just look at all the bluffing & feints & plays of certain conferences trying to gain members. Conference Commissioners in my estimation are no angels, and I certainly would never put it past one to lie, especially if they feel it is to the benefit of his or her conference and it's member institutions. Or they want to project a certain perception. Character wise from my perspective they shouldn't be put on a pedestal.

[ScottM]

Kelley is an NCAA fifth-columnist, spy, traitor to UND and eats live puppies!!!!!

[planetearth]

I find it ironic that the subheading of this thread is "With past record, why on earth do you believe him?"

Pot, meet kettle.

http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/15759-big-sky-meetings/page__view__findpost__p__507440

http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/15759-big-sky-meetings/page__view__findpost__p__507513

[bincitysioux]

Are North Dakotan's really that gullible to fall for Kelley's fables? Why are so many normally reasonable on this board believing Kelley, when Kelley has purposely betrayed UND athletics in the past in order to oust the Sioux name.

If Kelley had a similar reputation with money as he does with the Sioux name, Kelley would have swindled you all out of your fortunes. But the media and North Dakotan's are allowing Kelley to swindle the Sioux name out of our legacy.

Wake up people. Demand integrity in our leadership and demand answers from the media.

FACT: Douple has accused Kelley of conniving a story about the nickname to prevent UND from gaining Summit League affiliation. Douple was double-crossed by Kelley, so Douple had motivation for making the accusation. If Kelley hadn't denied the rumor, Kelley would have had to resign.

To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss.

FACT: Kelley has gone on radio and stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted on the Sioux name. Fullerton has emphatically denied that this has already happened. In fact, Kelley has said through a spokesman that the Big Sky Presidents voted, unbeknownst to him (Kelley), so Kelley heard it second hand. Someone is lying again.

FACT; Fullerton wants to add Idaho and Utah State to the Big Sky, and then go to two divisions: one FCS and one FBS. Every single school in the Big Sky would be needed for this goal to be accomplished. UND's membership is absolutely vital to this goal.

FACT; The biggest issue prior to the Big Sky meetings was the fate of the conference tournaments: would it be on campus or would it be in a secondary location like Las Vegas? Fullerton wanted campus locations. Numerous Big Sky Presidents have objected to traveling to certain locations on short notice: like Grand Forks, where fares are outrageous with less than a weeks notice.

FACT: Fullerton has stated that UND may not be able to host conference tournaments: (To be revealed: ostensibly because of the nickname but really because of the economics of the fares.) The Big Sky Presidents may vote on this issue this fall.

FACT: Kelley himself has said that the Big Sky Presidents didn't make a big issue out of the Sioux name, while he (Kelley) was present.

FACT: The media has not quoted a single Big Sky President to verify anything that transpired at the Big Sky meetings.

FACT: All the information we have from the Big Sky is from Kelley and from Fullerton, but even those versions differ from each other.

FACT: Not a single Big Sky school has an anti-nickname measure like Minnesota. In order for these Presidents to even vote on such a matter, most would want and need authorization from their own schools and government.

FACT: The media campaign that Kelley has launched is straight from a political attack manual.

FACT: No one in the media has even asked basic questions: like did Kelley have input into Fullerton's letter.

FACT: The Big Sky has no policy on Indian nicknames, even after the meeting.

FACT: The NCAA stated in it's press release that the Big Sky had a nickname policy that agreed with its own.

FACT: The NCAA received faulty information somewhere. How embarrassing for such an esteemed organization.

Who fed the NCAA faulty information? That person is in big big trouble. Who could it be?

Trusting Kelley is a mark of shame on this University and on us.

Good lord................