What Needs to Happen

[Teeder11]

I am a proud J-School grad; it was a sad, sad mess to watch that program be butchered alive.

Ditto!

[Chewey]

Elimination of the School of Communication still pisses me off. And to think that at one time the journalism department at UND was one of the very best in the nation. Donald Gillmor, a former journalism professor at the UND who later moved to the University of Minnesota School of Journalism faculty, once commented that UND's journalism program was the best between the Twin Cities and the West Cost.. Dr. Gillmor went on to become an established legal scholar, especially as it related to communications law, and published a number of books and papers in that area. Dr. Gillmor was an outstanding journalism educator.

Journalism itself is fodder for comic relief in this day and age, in my opinion. When people stop reporting raw factual information and start interjecting agendas and obfuscate facts or hedge them to service such agendas or when one side is reported 10 to 1 over another opposing viewpoint (see GF Herald on the nickname/logo issue), there is no journalism; there is only propaganda. Sadly, that's what journalism has devolved into - New York Times, Wall Street Journal (although these guys are a lot more objective and true to the facts than the NYT), etc. Egos and agendas have superseded facts. It's not too hard, really. Just interview people and/or observe them and report what they say or do. When egos are held in check, how hard can it be?

[Teeder11]

Journalism itself is fodder for comic relief in this day and age, in my opinion. When people stop reporting raw factual information and start interjecting agendas and obfuscate facts or hedge them to service such agendas or when one side is reported 10 to 1 over another opposing viewpoint (see GF Herald on the nickname/logo issue), there is no journalism; there is only propaganda. Sadly, that's what journalism has devolved into - New York Times, Wall Street Journal (although these guys are a lot more objective and true to the facts than the NYT), etc. Egos and agendas have superseded facts. It's not too hard, really. Just interview people and/or observe them and report what they say or do. When egos are held in check, how hard can it be?

Extremely. I've wrote many UND nickname articles in my days at UND and then later at the Herald and I always thought it interesting that two polarized sides could see the exact same series of facts, quotes and background text so differently. I would get phone calls, e-mails and, in that day, snail mail letters, about articles from folks on both ends of the nickname debate complaining that their side was wronged, slighted, maligned, marginalized, misquoted, a victim of biased reporting, had facts purposefully omitted, was not given equal column inches, etc. Now, mind you, I am not talking about the sources within these stories, rather these were comments from readers who contacted me and revealed their stance on the issue one way or the other. And again, these were not a series of charges leveled against me and my coverage of the issue as a general rule, rather these opinions would be offered up from both sides about the same single article. Two colored perceptions reading the same thing and coming to two complete opposite opinions about that same single piece. That's what made the nickname issue, in particular, so hard to cover. I did my best (as a nickname supporter) to set my biases aside and just report on the facts and quote both sides, but that didn't seem good enough for either side.... so to answer your question, with this hyper-polarized, hyper-sensitized issue, in this hyper-PC and hyper-anti-PC reactionary environment, it is very hard to do.

[GeauxSioux]

One of the best pieces I have seen written about the nickname issue in a while..... Sioux Everybody!

I agree with just about everything written. While the NCAA rule is PC crap and not evenly applied, the NCAA will ultimately win and UND will have to change the name.

My advice to North Dakota is as follows: ditch the Native American nickname, start a contest among current students and alumni to choose a new one and reap the financial benefits. Even though North Dakota has the lowest rate of unemployment of any state in the U.S., there still has to be something more pressing for legislatures to discuss than this, don't ya think?

[darell1976]

One of the best pieces I have seen written about the nickname issue in a while..... Sioux Everybody!

I agree with just about everything written. While the NCAA rule is PC crap and not evenly applied, the NCAA will ultimately win and UND will have to change the name.

I agree. UND needs to change the name and move on.

[BigChief]

Not sure if anyone posts these cartoons from Indian Country Today magazine:

[Chewey]

Not sure if anyone posts these cartoons from Indian Country Today magazine:

A complete idiot must have done that. What a racist cartoon! Actually, the opposite is true and such would be proved if a vote were allowed.

[mikejm]

One of the best pieces I have seen written about the nickname issue in a while..... Sioux Everybody!

That's a horribly-written article and is fraught with errors. The writer is correct in that the nickname will be changed, but the article itself is almost unreadable.

[IrishSiouxFan]

That's a horribly-written article and is fraught with errors. The writer is correct in that the nickname will be changed, but the article itself is almost unreadable.

"The University of Louisiana-Monroe (ULM) experienced similar financial gain when it switched from "Indians" to "Warhawks". Plus, the new nickname has to be one of the best in all of sports, collegiate or otherwise. The merchandising opportunities alone made the switch worthwhile."

Hmmm... Don't know about that. The only good thing that will come out of us retiring the nickname will be not having to listen to a bunch of over sensitive, liberal cry babies who will fight tooth and nail to make sure the Sioux's name isn't used by a university athletic team but will do little to address the real problem the people on the reservations face. It just goes to show that nickname opponents are only PC when it's convenient and easy.

[mizzou/sioux]

Journalism itself is fodder for comic relief in this day and age, in my opinion. When people stop reporting raw factual information and start interjecting agendas and obfuscate facts or hedge them to service such agendas or when one side is reported 10 to 1 over another opposing viewpoint (see GF Herald on the nickname/logo issue), there is no journalism; there is only propaganda. Sadly, that's what journalism has devolved into - New York Times, Wall Street Journal (although these guys are a lot more objective and true to the facts than the NYT), etc. Egos and agendas have superseded facts. It's not too hard, really. Just interview people and/or observe them and report what they say or do. When egos are held in check, how hard can it be?

Chewey, while "journalism itself is fodder for comic relief" may indeed have a basis in fact, it is not a recent development in journalism. Having studied journalism at both UND and in graduate school at the University of Missouri-Columbia and having thoroughly studied the history of journalism, this interjection of agendas and perhaps questionable facts is not at all new. Back in colonial days journalism was intensely personal at times. Editor-publishers were jailed on occasion when they printed material deemed objectionable by a political opponent. In fact, many journalists were politicians themselves. The revered and esteemed Benjamin Franklin was not only a printer-publisher but a politician of the first order. Franklin was also involved with postal service and delivery. He had his hands in everything. Not that that is necessarily bad. You talk about agendas. Well, believe me, there were plenty of agendas back then as well. The ill-thought-out Alien and Sedition Acts back in President John Adams' time is hardly something to harken back to.

[dakota fairways]

OK, back on topic. This is D-Week with the NCAA.

Friday will bring clarity to the NCAA's position, as if we don't already have it. Is there a snowball in downtown Phoenix that didn't melt in August? I don't think I saw the sun rise in the west this morning. Much as I wish the NCAA would relent and see the light, I fear that they just want this fight off their plate and will not budge from their previous stance.

Hope that Carlson brings examples of the state honoring Native Americans, such as state highway signs, the logos on the doors of the Highway Patrold and the name Lake Sakakawea to prove there is not malicious intent, but one way or the other, UND needs the blessing of the NCAA to achieve Big Sky membership and 'smart' money is on the side that says they will not get it.

[darell1976]

OK, back on topic. This is D-Week with the NCAA.

Friday will bring clarity to the NCAA's position, as if we don't already have it. Is there a snowball in downtown Phoenix that didn't melt in August? I don't think I saw the sun rise in the west this morning. Much as I wish the NCAA would relent and see the light, I fear that they just want this fight off their plate and will not budge from their previous stance.

Hope that Carlson brings examples of the state honoring Native Americans, such as state highway signs, the logos on the doors of the Highway Patrold and the name Lake Sakakawea to prove there is not malicious intent, but one way or the other, UND needs the blessing of the NCAA to achieve Big Sky membership and 'smart' money is on the side that says they will not get it.

I too wish somehow or someway the NCAA will accept the Spirit Lake's blessing, but if they say "no" to the nickname then let it be done. Repeal the law immediately and restart the retirement. No more Al Carlson's hail mary passes that will just get intercepted, and no more talk about saving the name and killing our chances with the Big Sky and college athletics. Monday is the day we are to go on the H&A list and life could be hell if we are to stay on that list. Please end this either with a name saving decision or a name changing decision. This could be the final nail in the coffin.

[Hawkster]

I'm of the opinion that the NCAA is going to say we need to stick to the agreement that was signed by all parties involved. It's just time to get on with the inevitable and move on.

Hopefully the NCAA understands that our hands are tied until the special session in November.

[darell1976]

I'm of the opinion that the NCAA is going to say we need to stick to the agreement that was signed by all parties involved. It's just time to get on with the inevitable and move on.

Hopefully the NCAA understands that our hands are tied until the special session in November.

Not really. There was no said punishment if UND retired the name. It just said the AG will consider (not force) a lawsuit against the NCAA.

[dakota fairways]

The problem really is that there is nothing to motivate the NCAA to relent on their position. They have been getting beaten down every time they turn around... USC, Cam Newton, Ohio State, and on and on... They must just be feeling that they have to win one and this is one they have already won, so they won't back down at this point. It seemed, back when the meeting was originally scheduled and the NCAA was going to come to North Dakota to talk to the legislators & the governor, that they may have been willing to talk, but they appear to have taken the hard line on the Fighting Sioux now.

Mr. Carlson doesn't seem to have anything in his back pocket to pull out and save the name, at least not that he has leaked to the press, so the result,as Darell put it will be a name-changing decision.

[The Sicatoka]

Better odds on Friday:

- Al Carlson convincing the NCAA to change its position

- me getting a hole in one.

[SIOUXFAN97]

The problem really is that there is nothing to motivate the NCAA to relent on their position. They have been getting beaten down every time they turn around... USC, Cam Newton, Ohio State, and on and on... They must just be feeling that they have to win one and this is one they have already won, so they won't back down at this point. It seemed, back when the meeting was originally scheduled and the NCAA was going to come to North Dakota to talk to the legislators & the governor, that they may have been willing to talk, but they appear to have taken the hard line on the Fighting Sioux now.

Mr. Carlson doesn't seem to have anything in his back pocket to pull out and save the name, at least not that he has leaked to the press, so the result,as Darell put it will be a name-changing decision.

HOPE MR CARLSON HAS SOME MAFIA CONNECTIONS AND PULLS OUT FILES ON EACH OF THOSE NC$$ CROOKS AND FLASHES IT TO THEM AND THEN MAKES THEM AN OFFER THEY CAN'T REFUSE!!!

[ScottM]

Better odds on Friday:

- Al Carlson convincing the NCAA to change its position

- me getting a hole in one.

What's your handicap?

[Rick]

What's your handicap?

Depends who you ask. His wife gives a completely different answer than he does.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

HOPE MR CARLSON HAS SOME MAFIA CONNECTIONS AND PULLS OUT FILES ON EACH OF THOSE NC$$ CROOKS AND FLASHES IT TO THEM AND THEN MAKES THEM AN OFFER THEY CAN'T REFUSE!!!

Looks like someone was watching mobweek on amc!

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Depends who you ask. His wife gives a completely different answer than he does.

BAM!

[The Sicatoka]

What's your handicap?

My swing. {bah-dump-bump ... TING!}

[GeauxSioux]

First I want to say that I am will be sad when the Fighting Sioux name is goine. My dad played BB for UND, I have been a Fighting Sioux fan since the '60's. As a fan of the University of North Dakota, I don't want the athletic department and for that matter the entire university dragged through the mud and slime for years to come. The Big Sky has threatened to not allow membership, Minnesota and Wisconsin will not play UND, and others will follow. UND would likely be an independent and stuck on an island in the arctic. Sica use of the word pariah, will be pretty accurate.

There is an SBoHE this meeting this Thursday in Minot. Action needs to be taken.

Jon Backes (current Board president) and Grant Shaft (Board president July 1st) are both UND law school graduates and I'm sure will get this moving, with all that has transpired in the past few days.

The SBoHE needs to take control of the nickname issue back from the legislature. Constitutionally, it IS theirs to control. They need to advise Dalrymple and Stenehjem of their intent, so they are not blindsided (I doubt that they would be, but courtesy would dictate advising).

The SBoHE then directs UND to retire the name. UND will follow direction as stipulated by the SBoHE, as UND is under their authority.

Yes, this likely head to court, but better sooner than later.

What won't happen?? The NCAA is not going to change their mind. They are not going to allow a law passed after a settlement agreement was made to force them to change their mind. It won't stand up legally, so they have no reason to back down. They will continue to point to the settlement and say they are done with the issue and impose sanctions, should UND maintain use of the Fighting Sioux name.

I am a fan of the University of North Dakota and will always be, no matter what the nickname is.

I don't typically quote myself, but what I said last June needs to happen.

[darell1976]

I don't typically quote myself, but what I said last June needs to happen.

The SBoHE needs to take control of the nickname issue back from the legislature. Constitutionally, it IS theirs to control.

What are they waiting for? Just stop this whole legislation thing and tell the state we controll this matter. The name is being retired at our (and the NCAA's) request. Game over. I just don't get it.

[Oxbow6]

_{Not disagreeing with much of anything in this thread. But does anyone else see how this whole ongoing nickname fiasco is just a total cluster **** and is really no more than a microcosm of what is wrong with our country in it's current state.}