Bemidji State in the WCHA?

[krangodance]

i need to stop coming to this site, it just keeps depressing me that hockey is over. now it's baseball season. i really do not enjoy baseball. i guess it's time to get my canoe and hiking gear out and spend some time with nature until football season starts.

[siouxweet]

The only problem is that now with the new RPI formula, playing a strong schedule actually hurts you. Cupcake city actually gives a team a better shot.

which explains our scheduling of merrimack.

[808287]

like i stated my point is they hardly trael. as pointed out those were over 8 seasons. thats my point. i dont care one way or another. just pointing out they hardly travel non conference and its proven in the chedules going back a ways. thats all. the michigan tourney is usually the only one every season with a few spread in here and there.

go sioux

go beavers

lets the beavs in

But....if we let the Beavers in the Gophers will NEVER win the DQ cup!!!

[redwing77]

i need to stop coming to this site, it just keeps depressing me that hockey is over. now it's baseball season. i really do not enjoy baseball. i guess it's time to get my canoe and hiking gear out and spend some time with nature until football season starts.

Sorry, but the end of the hockey season + beginning of the baseball season = Sportscenter watchable. Why? Because college basketball is wrapping up, NBA is wrapping up... a nd that means that ESPN goes from basketball nutjobs to noticing other sports.

The later the NHL season ends as compared to the NBA postseason, the more airtime hockey gets on sportscenter.

[Hammersmith]

I thought I'd throw in this tidbit coming out of the Fargo media(WDAY & The Forum):

MSUM exploring possibility of starting Division I hockey program

[star2city]

I thought I'd throw in this tidbit coming out of the Fargo media(WDAY & The Forum):

MSUM exploring possibility of starting Division I hockey program

Sources say they would use the UP Center if it were to happen.

Often wondered why MSU-Moorhead hadn't publicly tossed this idea out before. If they had to drop football to sponsor DI hockey, they'd be very much ahead in publicity/attendance.

[gfhockey]

If Moorhead-state got into the WCHA, you can kiss UW, UM and some other schools good bye.

[gopherz]

If Moorhead-state got into the WCHA, you can kiss UW, UM and some other schools good bye.

Absolutely. Hopefully its not the same situation with BSU. I feel like all its going to take is 1, or 2 at most, Big 10 schools picking up D1 hockey programs. With the revenues in those athletic departments, it wouldn't be far fetched by any means.

[gfhockey]

I think Moorhead would have to get established first. BSU is getting itself established. Maybe Moorhead should join bemidjis conference.

Or maybe we should jsut re-aligh the whole NC$$?

[Smoggy]

I think Moorhead would have to get established first. BSU is getting itself established. Maybe Moorhead should join bemidjis conference.

Or maybe we should jsut re-aligh the whole NC$$?

I agree about getting established and have been saying all along that it would be better for each bloated conference to get teams to join a different. Re-alignment would probably be best. But if you are the NCAA how do you do it? By Rivalries? By old original conferences? By location (scariest for us in a way out west)?

Maybe much smaller 6 team conference pods are needed and play it like a major sports league where each year the different conferences play all teams in conference 4 times and then rotate each play either home or away against a different conference with a sprinkling of extra non-conference games.

[yzerman19]

I wouldnt give a nickel to save BSU at the expense of the integrity of the WCHA and the established successful programs. If saving BSU cost UND the Gopher, Wisconsin, Pioneer, Tiger or Bulldog series I would vehemently oppose admitting BSU. As a lifelong Sioux fan living in Mpls, quite honestly I could care less about Bemidji, BSU, or the Beaver hockey program.

I am routing for them as underdogs in the tourney, but I will be disappointed if any concessions are made to let them in.

Worry about the Sioux, screw the Beavers.

[Smoggy]

I wouldnt give a nickel to save BSU at the expense of the integrity of the WCHA and the established successful programs. If saving BSU cost UND the Gopher, Wisconsin, Pioneer, Tiger or Bulldog series I would vehemently oppose admitting BSU. As a lifelong Sioux fan living in Mpls, quite honestly I could care less about Bemidji, BSU, or the Beaver hockey program.

I am routing for them as underdogs in the tourney, but I will be disappointed if any concessions are made to let them in.

Worry about the Sioux, screw the Beavers.

Even if it means college hockey going to a 12 team playoff and we don't make it because of this?

[gfhockey]

I like the idea of having smaller sub conferences in a conference. Like the big 12.

[fightingsioux4life]

I wouldnt give a nickel to save BSU at the expense of the integrity of the WCHA and the established successful programs. If saving BSU cost UND the Gopher, Wisconsin, Pioneer, Tiger or Bulldog series I would vehemently oppose admitting BSU. As a lifelong Sioux fan living in Mpls, quite honestly I could care less about Bemidji, BSU, or the Beaver hockey program.

I am routing for them as underdogs in the tourney, but I will be disappointed if any concessions are made to let them in.

Worry about the Sioux, screw the Beavers.

If established hockey power Michigan had taken this attitude towards us in the 1940's, we would not have a program to worry about. All "established successful programs" started out like Bemidji State, including us. They became "established succecssful programs" because other "established successful programs" were willing to schedule them and, at some point, allow them to join an established conference. This is how college hockey has survived and thrived and developed a rabid, passionate fan base that sustains it through tough times and an overall lack of media coverage by the ESPN's of the world.

With all due respect, your viewpoint on this issue is very shallow, short-sighted and totally unbecoming a Sioux hockey fan considering our own history of overcoming big-school snobbery and lack of resources (until recent times) to build one of the best (if not the best) Division I hockey programs of all time. If we lose the Bemidji State program, I will blame Bruce McLeod first and foremost for shamelessly lobbying against their admission into the league. But I will also blame fans like yourself who have forgotten the very roots from which programs like North Dakota sprung so many years ago.

If all we focus on are scheduling difficulties and the annual share of the playoff pie, we risk losing much more than the 16 team tournament that we fought so long to obtain. We risk losing the heart and soul of College Hockey itself, which is what makes it so special to those of us that follow it each and every winter. Programs like Bemidji State embody that spirit and they are the programs that will sustain us through tough times (economic or otherwise) and maintain a quality product for years to come.

End Rant.

[The Sicatoka]

(blatant re-post from another thread)

Folks, ...

Talk's cheap; it takes money to buy whiskey.

What WCHA people are saying publicly is one thing.

How they vote is determined solely by the fiscal impacts (to themselves) that they perceive.

This also applies to MSU-Moorhead's recent statements:

Talk's cheap; Do they have the money?

(Considering the cuts they're talking about at that school due to budget issues ... )

Put another way?

To see how all of this will play out just ... Follow the Benjamins.

[The Sicatoka]

Re-alignment would probably be best. But if you are the NCAA how do you do it?

The NCAA doesn't do it.

Conferences are alignments of schools, by schools, to mutual benefit*.

The NCAA doesn't create conferences, the schools do.

The NCAA just recognizes them as legitimate for NCAA competition and potential post-season play.

* What's the biggest potential "mutual benefit" realignment out there in college hockey?

I know it's a running joke, but for those who would form it it would be the Big Ten Hockey Conference: television, name opponents for conference play (think: gate revenue).

[yzerman19]

We did just fine under the old NCAA format.

I would actually prefer the NCAA tournament to be run like the WJC with a round robin.

Imagine this set up

Pool A

WCHA regular season champ

CCHA playoff champ

ECAC regular season champ

Hockey East Playoff champ

At large bid

Pool B

WCHA playoff Champ

CCHA regualr season champ

ECAC palyoff champ

Hockey East regular season champ

At large bid

Each team gets four round robin games played over 2 weeks

Ties settled by goal differential

unlike the WJC, we still keep the frozen 4 where:

2nd place B plays 1st place A

2nd place A plays 1st place B

There would most likely be more than 2 at large bids, because we will see dual winners.

We have more hockey games this way and have at least 10 teams make it.

We no longer have a regional format and a situation where one and done. You could have multiple host cities for the round robin play.

[fightingsioux4life]

We did just fine under the old NCAA format.

I would actually prefer the NCAA tournament to be run like the WJC with a round robin.

Imagine this set up

Pool A

WCHA regular season champ

CCHA playoff champ

ECAC regular season champ

Hockey East Playoff champ

At large bid

Pool B

WCHA playoff Champ

CCHA regualr season champ

ECAC palyoff champ

Hockey East regular season champ

At large bid

Each team gets four round robin games played over 2 weeks

Ties settled by goal differential

unlike the WJC, we still keep the frozen 4 where:

2nd place B plays 1st place A

2nd place A plays 1st place B

There would most likely be more than 2 at large bids, because we will see dual winners.

We have more hockey games this way and have at least 10 teams make it.

We no longer have a regional format and a situation where one and done. You could have multiple host cities for the round robin play.

Sounds interesting, as long as the infernal shootout is not included.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Could the WCHA create and run its own sub-conference? Sorta like European soccer. Get a bunch of teams and have two conferences under the WCHA umbrella. Could have one "power" conference and one "weak" conference. Have teams put in either the "power" or the "weak" based on the past year's performance. Or just have two divisions to the WCHA. I don't know if it would work or be reasonably or anything, but just ideas.

[yzerman19]

If established hockey power Michigan had taken this attitude towards us in the 1940's, we would not have a program to worry about. All "established successful programs" started out like Bemidji State, including us. They became "established succecssful programs" because other "established successful programs" were willing to schedule them and, at some point, allow them to join an established conference. This is how college hockey has survived and thrived and developed a rabid, passionate fan base that sustains it through tough times and an overall lack of media coverage by the ESPN's of the world.

With all due respect, your viewpoint on this issue is very shallow, short-sighted and totally unbecoming a Sioux hockey fan considering our own history of overcoming big-school snobbery and lack of resources (until recent times) to build one of the best (if not the best) Division I hockey programs of all time. If we lose the Bemidji State program, I will blame Bruce McLeod first and foremost for shamelessly lobbying against their admission into the league. But I will also blame fans like yourself who have forgotten the very roots from which programs like North Dakota sprung so many years ago.

If all we focus on are scheduling difficulties and the annual share of the playoff pie, we risk losing much more than the 16 team tournament that we fought so long to obtain. We risk losing the heart and soul of College Hockey itself, which is what makes it so special to those of us that follow it each and every winter. Programs like Bemidji State embody that spirit and they are the programs that will sustain us through tough times (economic or otherwise) and maintain a quality product for years to come.

End Rant.

I appreciate the nature of your postion. It is well written and (unlike many posters) is not a personal attack.

While I understand the history that allowed us into the fray, I must contend that times have changed. I sincerely doubt that UND would be admitted if we were in BSU's position today. Without our history, tradition, and facilities, it would be a no brainer to not admit UND. Small University, small population...tough sell.

It is important to take perspective and realize that hockey will never be a national game in the USA. It will never draw the following of tens of millions like "March Madness" or the BCS bowls. We were even bumped for lacrosse, because a MD vs UVA lacrosse game will draw more viewers and more advertising revenue.

It is important for hockey fans to be comfortable with the fact that we are a small and rabid group. We will not change that. Admitting additional teams will not change that.

I fear that adding additional teams will do little to improve the game and will simply dilute resources much as expansion did in the NHL.

[yzerman19]

Sounds interesting, as long as the infernal shootout is not included.

Shootout sickens me too. Do it as a skill competition for fun. It should never determine a playoff winner. I think the only place that happens is in International play.

[Goon]

Even if it means college hockey going to a 12 team playoff and we don't make it because of this?

If Division one hockey loses more schools that will happen. So that is why I think something will work it's way out.

It's all about the first step someone is going to blink..

[Smoggy]

The NCAA doesn't do it.

Conferences are alignments of schools, by schools, to mutual benefit*.

The NCAA doesn't create conferences, the schools do.

The NCAA just recognizes them as legitimate for NCAA competition and potential post-season play.

* What's the biggest potential "mutual benefit" realignment out there in college hockey?

I know it's a running joke, but for those who would form it it would be the Big Ten Hockey Conference: television, name opponents for conference play (think: gate revenue).

I realize all that but was going with the conversation of the NCAA being asked to step in.

After years of thinking it would be the worst thing, I'm beginning to think the BTHC may be good for college hockey.

[fightingsioux4life]

I appreciate the nature of your postion. It is well written and (unlike many posters) is not a personal attack.

While I understand the history that allowed us into the fray, I must contend that times have changed. I sincerely doubt that UND would be admitted if we were in BSU's position today. Without our history, tradition, and facilities, it would be a no brainer to not admit UND. Small University, small population...tough sell.

UND is small (13,000 enrollment) in a city of 50,000 and we still sell out a 12,000 seat arena night after night after night. That is passion and dedication by our fan base and it is what makes College Hockey successful. And it will make Bemidji State successful, especially if you put them in a first-class league (WCHA). Recruiting will improve, as will strength of schedule. They've managed to succeed in a low-rent league (CHA) for years and have even made it to the Frozen Four as the 16th (and final) seed. They've earned their stripes. Now it's time we reward them for it.

It is important to take perspective and realize that hockey will never be a national game in the USA. It will never draw the following of tens of millions like "March Madness" or the BCS bowls. We were even bumped for lacrosse, because a MD vs UVA lacrosse game will draw more viewers and more advertising revenue.

This is why losing a program is not acceptable for college hockey. D-I Basketball could lose a program and nobody would notice it was gone (there are over 330 D-I basketball programs). But take one college hockey program out of 58 and it does significant dammage to the sport as a whole. The fact that it isn't a national sport is why we have to protect our own, especially traditional hockey schools like BSU. I would rather lose Alabama-Huntsville then Bemidji State, just because the Beavers have a better chance of surviving in the long-term. And that is what this should be about, the long-term. Not short-term scheduling difficulties or the biases of Mr. McLeod.

It is important for hockey fans to be comfortable with the fact that we are a small and rabid group. We will not change that. Admitting additional teams will not change that.

I am comfortable with it, but we cannot get too small. We don't want to lose what we have gained over the last 10 years or so (16 team tournament, more competitive teams, more talent, ect). If we can keep the number of teams at around 60, we'll be okay.

I fear that adding additional teams will do little to improve the game and will simply dilute resources much as expansion did in the NHL.

I don't think saving one program is analogous to the over-expansion of the NHL, but I see your point. If we start admitting MIAC teams, then I'll start worrying. But I think this is a prudent and responsible action by the WCHA; IF our league has the guts to pull the trigger on it.

[Big A HG]

They've managed to succeed in a low-rent league (CHA) for years and have even made it to the Frozen Four as the 16th (and final) seed.

The final seed went to Ohio State. BSU was the lowest ranked team in the tournament.