Nickname on Ballot at Spirit Lake

[ScottM]

Now that the Sioux name/logo are on their way out the door, perhaps the name change crowd can focus on more "menial" issues ...

American Indians have an infant death rate that is 40 percent higher than the rate for whites. They are twice as likely to die from diabetes, 60 percent more likely to have a stroke, 30 percent more likely to have high blood pressure and 20 percent more likely to have heart disease. American Indians have disproportionately high death rates from unintentional injuries and suicide, and a high prevalence of risk factors for obesity, substance abuse, sudden infant death syndrome, teenage pregnancy, liver disease and hepatitis.

After Haiti, men on the impoverished Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations in South Dakota have the lowest life expectancy in the Western Hemisphere.

On the Standing Rock Reservation in North Dakota, Indian Health Service staff say they are trying to improve conditions. They point out recent improvements to their clinic, including a new ambulance bay. But in interviews on the reservation, residents were eager to share stories about substandard care.

The same clinic failed to diagnose Victor Brave Thunder with congestive heart failure, giving him Tylenol and cough syrup when he told a doctor he was uncomfortable and had not slept for several days. He eventually went to a hospital in Bismarck, which immediately admitted him. But he had permanent damage to his heart, which he attributed to delays in treatment. Brave Thunder, 54, died in April while waiting for a heart transplant.

Ron His Horse is Thunder, chairman of the Standing Rock tribe, says his remote reservation on the border between North Dakota and South Dakota can't attract or maintain doctors who know what they are doing. Instead, he says, "We get old doctors that no one else wants or new doctors who need to be trained." His Horse is Thunder often travels to Washington to lobby for more money and attention, but he acknowledges that improvements are tough to come by. "We are not one congruent voting bloc in any one state or area," he said. "So we don't have the political clout."

Oh come on, Ronnie. While you were railing against the UND name/logo, people were dying on your watch. Way to watch out for your people ...

Dorgan's swath of the country is the hardest hit in terms of Indian health care. Many reservations there are poor, isolated, devoid of economic development opportunities and subject to long, harsh winters

[darell1976]

But see when the UND nickname is gone healthcare will greatly improve and the conditions of the reservations will be great. Its because the Sioux nickname is to blame for them not getting good healthcare. I would like to ask Ronnie when UND changed their name and you can't protest our college anymore what is life going to be like on the Rez since protesting the nickname is everything to him.

[redwing77]

But see when the UND nickname is gone healthcare will greatly improve and the conditions of the reservations will be great. Its because the Sioux nickname is to blame for them not getting good healthcare. I would like to ask Ronnie when UND changed their name and you can't protest our college anymore what is life going to be like on the Rez since protesting the nickname is everything to him.

I also expect to see a 30% jump in High School graduation rates, college enrollment (not just at UND) will skyrocket, and alcoholism will be stamped out forever.

I also expect that I'll win the lottery 5 times straight without buying any lottery tickets, I'll be named Humanitarian of the Year for 25 of the 48 continental United States, and George W. Bush will be granted a Nobel Prize for his efforts in Iraq.

Seriously, though, I wonder what they'll blame next when the nickname is gone?

I'm kinda interested in finding out what the activists will turn on next?

[82SiouxGuy]

I also expect to see a 30% jump in High School graduation rates, college enrollment (not just at UND) will skyrocket, and alcoholism will be stamped out forever.

I also expect that I'll win the lottery 5 times straight without buying any lottery tickets, I'll be named Humanitarian of the Year for 25 of the 48 continental United States, and George W. Bush will be granted a Nobel Prize for his efforts in Iraq.

Seriously, though, I wonder what they'll blame next when the nickname is gone?

I'm kinda interested in finding out what the activists will turn on next?

There will probably be a group that blames UND and the Fighting Sioux nickname for years. "If UND had changed the name in the 1970s then things would have been different."

[Ray77]

When were the tribal elections to take place? Wasn't that supposed to be July 15 (yesterday), or am I mistaken?

[dmksioux]

When were the tribal elections to take place? Wasn't that supposed to be July 15 (yesterday), or am I mistaken?

The Standing Rock Election did take place yesterday. I haven't found a link, but according to WDAY/WDAZ this morning, Charlie Murphy had the most votes 500 some, Ron HHIT had like 223, and Avis Little Eagle had 221. If I heard correctly, the top two vote getters move on to the main election in September. I am also not sure what stance the other two candidate have in regards to the Sioux name.

[Ray77]

The Standing Rock Election did take place yesterday. I haven't found a link, but according to WDAY/WDAZ this morning, Charlie Murphy had the most votes 500 some, Ron HHIT had like 223, and Avis Little Eagle had 221. If I heard correctly, the top two vote getters move on to the main election in September. I am also not sure what stance the other two candidate have in regards to the Sioux name.

2 votes?!! We were 2 votes shy of never having to hear from Ron His Donkey's Farting again?!!

[dmksioux]

2 votes?!! We were 2 votes shy of never having to hear from Ron His Donkey's Farting again?!!

They stated the votes haven't been certified yet so they are not official. With the way the tribal elections are run...who knows...perhaps he was on the short side of the vote.

[star2city]

Bismarck Tribune from 2006

Murphy is a nickname supporter:

Charles Murphy, a former chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, has been appointed to the state Board of Higher Education. Murphy, who may be the board's first American Indian member, said he would support a University of North Dakota effort to keep its "Fighting Sioux" nickname.

"I'm very honored," Murphy said Friday after Gov. John Hoeven named him to the panel. "I'm looking forward to working with the state of North Dakota to help improve (the university system) ... I hope that I can bring a lot of good things to the table."

Murphy served as chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe for 18 years. He did not seek re-election in 2005, and was succeeded by Ron His Horse Is Thunder.

Murphy has also been chairman of Sitting Bull College, a tribal college at Fort Yates, and of United Tribes Technical College, of Bismarck, which is operated by North Dakota's five American Indian tribes.

He said he believed it should be up to UND as to whether it should retain its Fighting Sioux nickname and Indian head logo, which the NCAA has deemed hostile and abusive to American Indians. The NCAA says UND may not use the nickname and logo in postseason tournaments, and that the school will not host NCAA events unless it drops both.

Murphy said he has heard support from tribal members for keeping the nickname and logo. "I don't have a problem with it," he said.

[dmksioux]

Here is the only news link I can find so far...

http://www.wdaz.com/news/index.cfm?id=1588

[Ray77]

They stated the votes haven't been certified yet so they are not official. With the way the tribal elections are run...who knows...perhaps he was on the short side of the vote.

Even if it does come down to Murphy and RHHIT, am I correct in my thought that only one of them will win, and it looks good since Murphy had double the votes in this primary? Although, you never know where the other 200 and some votes that the other person who took 3rd will go to.

[krangodance]

hypothetically, let's say this plays out:

1. charlie murphy wins the general election, which i heard was to take place on 9/30.

2. charlie murphy announces he will put the nickname issue to a vote within the standing rock tribe.

would it be too late anyways? since the votes won't be counted until 9/30 and approved on 10/1, how could a vote even happen before the name would be retired?

does anybody from the board of higher education who has any pull even look at these forums? if so, what are you going to do about the above scenario? it seems to me that any logical person or board would have to extend the retirement date until standing rock has an opportunity to vote on the issue. i mean, we are talking about 80 years of tradition here.

if we do get that close to gaining the permission we need to keep the name under ncaa regulations, it seems like the board of higher education would have to basically be admitting that they don't care what the native american community has to say on the issue if they chose not to extend the retirement date.

i realize the summit league is an issue now as well, but is the summit league commissioner really so obtuse as to not give us a little more time if we do get so close to gaining the permission they say we need in order to keep the sioux name and still join their league?

honestlly, what can it hurt? the reality is that the ncaa gave us until october 2010. spirit lake has already shown their support. if charlie murphy comes out as a supporter of the name and he still wins the general election, wouldn't that make it clear that both tribes support the name? once that has been established, it only makes sense to give the tribes time to decide whether they want to approve a 30-year contract.

basically i'm pleading to anybody on the board of higher education and/or anybody in the summit league's commissioner's office to be reasonable here. this is too important to take lightly. if we do get as close as it looks like we very well could in the next few months, it seems like the only logical thing to do is give it a bit more time. the summit league could even allow und in under the provision that they have until the ncaa deadline of 10/2010 to get a 30-year contract agreement from both tribes.

if that date comes and goes and the issue still isn't resolved or a 30-year contract is explicitly shot down, then fine, we retire the name as per ncaa regulations and we remain in the summit league without the name. however, if the issue is resolved and a 30-year contract is approved, then we keep the name, which satisfies both the ncaa provision and the summit league provision, provided the summit league can give us the necessary extension.

this is an extremely sensitive topic and to supercede the arrangement already established by the ncaa at a time when we could very well be less than six months shy of satisfying the ncaa requirements for keeping the name almost seems vindictive. i certainly hope that's not what's going on here.

[dmksioux]

My guess is that if Mr. Murphy adopts the nickname debate for his platform for the general election, the nickname supporters will start to pressure Ron HHIT to strike a deal with the university prior to the election or else risk being voted out of his current position of Tribal Chair. Whether or not this comes to fruition and whether or not Ron HHIT wants to play ball is yet to be determined.

[Oxbow6]

basically i'm pleading to anybody on the board of higher education and/or anybody in the summit league's commissioner's office to be reasonable here. this is too important to take lightly. if we do get as close as it looks like we very well could in the next few months, it seems like the only logical thing to do is give it a bit more time. the summit league could even allow und in under the provision that they have until the ncaa deadline of 10/2010 to get a 30-year contract agreement from both tribes.

When has there been any "REASONABLE" thought process in this whole nickname/logo ordeal?? The SBoHE has done nothing but pander to those who feel that the nickname/logo has to go...i.e. NCAA, the liberal pinheads at UND and a minority of NA's who are anti-nickname. I agree with everything in your post, but this issue has gone so far off track in appeasing the "squeaky wheels" that I think the outcome of removing the nickname/logo is inevitable.

[krangodance]

When has there been any "REASONABLE" thought process in this whole nickname/logo ordeal?? The SBoHE has done nothing but pander to those who feel that the nickname/logo has to go...i.e. NCAA, the liberal pinheads at UND and a minority of NA's who are anti-nickname. I agree with everything in your post, but this issue has gone so far off track in appeasing the "squeaky wheels" that I think the outcome of removing the nickname/logo is inevitable.

unfortunately, it has felt that way for some time. i still have a shred of hope though since there's clear support from the sioux community and that's really the key. however, it may not matter this late in the game. we'll see.

[star2city]

My guess is that if Mr. Murphy adopts the nickname debate for his platform for the general election, the nickname supporters will start to pressure Ron HHIT to strike a deal with the university prior to the election or else risk being voted out of his current position of Tribal Chair. Whether or not this comes to fruition and whether or not Ron HHIT wants to play ball is yet to be determined.

Seems HHIT wants a legacy regardless if he is reelected or not: the removal of the Sioux name from UND. It seems the deadline has to be extended beyond Oct 1st for their to be any hope.

[DamStrait]

Seems HHIT wants a legacy regardless if he is reelected or not: the removal of the Sioux name from UND. It seems the deadline has to be extended beyond Oct 1st for their to be any hope.

I think Kelly wants the name gone and the state board is obliging him - it seems those that opposed having the name changed have now grown weary since not only is the fight being carried by the usual very few extremists, but also now by the NCAA, UMTC, and Douple (i.e. Chapman). We now have more promise than ever of working out a long term agreement that everyone will have to respect and it seems it has been determined that it will be pissed away no matter what. It's incredibly sad and stupid beyond words.

[darell1976]

I think if Murphy wins and the UND nickname will gain approval with the Standing Rock (our ally is Archie Fool Bear, since he says they already approve the name back in a ceremony in the 60's) i think the board and Kelly will have no choice but to honor what the native americans on both tribes want, plus imagine the outcry on and off campus...Kelly would be jeapordizing his job by ignoring everyone and change the name including alumni$$$$$$. I think so far this is good news about Murphy, and now its just a wait and see game. September may be the month that saves or sinks the nickname.

[Blackheart]

Charlie Murphy....git'r'done!!

[homer]

What happens if Oct. 1st comes and the name is retired? Than Mr. Murphey gets elected, the tribe works with UND and Spirit Lake and they decide that they will allow UND to keep the nickname. Could the Fighting Sioux nickname pull a Brett Favre and come out of retirement? Its a serious question. If they retire the nickname do you suppose there is any hope of them getting everything worked out and bringing it back before they chose a new nickname?

[Ray77]

What happens if Oct. 1st comes and the name is retired? Than Mr. Murphey gets elected, the tribe works with UND and Spirit Lake and they decide that they will allow UND to keep the nickname. Could the Fighting Sioux nickname pull a Brett Favre and come out of retirement? Its a serious question. If they retire the nickname do you suppose there is any hope of them getting everything worked out and bringing it back before they chose a new nickname?

This could have all been avoided if they hadn't upped the deadline. And if the reason to do that had to do with the Summit League, then why not up the deadline to 12/31/2009? They knew when the tribal elections would be, and that gives 3 months after the election for this exact scenario.

[Bison Dan]

What happens if Oct. 1st comes and the name is retired? Than Mr. Murphey gets elected, the tribe works with UND and Spirit Lake and they decide that they will allow UND to keep the nickname. Could the Fighting Sioux nickname pull a Brett Favre and come out of retirement? Its a serious question. If they retire the nickname do you suppose there is any hope of them getting everything worked out and bringing it back before they chose a new nickname?

From what I've read on this board I understand that the agreement with the NCAA is contingent on the tribes continuous support. When a new chief comes in and he doesn't like the name out it goes. I also think that the SBoE wanted a 30 year agreement which I don't know if a tribe can do that. Usually when a new administration comes in everything is voided from the old one. I think the UND admin just wants this thing to go away.

[ScottM]

From what I've read on this board I understand that the agreement with the NCAA is contingent on the tribes continuous support. When a new chief comes in and he doesn't like the name out it goes. I also think that the SBoE wanted a 30 year agreement which I don't know if a tribe can do that. Usually when a new administration comes in everything is voided from the old one. I think the UND admin just wants this thing to go away.

I don't disagree. Without a valid long-term agreement between the state and the appropriate governing bodies of each tribal group, I think we would be revisiting this issue every time a new election was held, somebody felt "insulted" by a misuse of the name, the NC$$ took a different view of the world, etc. The "settlement" was designed to be a search for the Holy Grail, and dropping the name/logo was the implicit price of a relatively smooth move to D1.

[Big A HG]

[Blackheart]

I don't disagree. Without a valid long-term agreement between the state and the appropriate governing bodies of each tribal group, I think we would be revisiting this issue every time a new election was held, somebody felt "insulted" by a misuse of the name, the NC$$ took a different view of the world, etc. The "settlement" was designed to be a search for the Holy Grail, and dropping the name/logo was the implicit price of a relatively smooth move to D1.

I sent Grant Shaft a little message after the recent election and received a reply...see below...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Message for Grant Shaft:

Don't be short sighted on the UND nickname issue...it can still be saved...The current roadblock (Ron His Horse is something) is going to probably lose the election at the end of Sept....you have a chance of saving this still...think of what that might do for your current position...Come on, I heard you are a decent guy, do we really have to give up the Sioux name on 10/1 or do we have some wiggle room?

Name

- UND 1990

REPLY

UND Name and Logo‏

From: grant.shaft@ndus.edu

Sent: Fri 7/17/09 3:32 PM

To: name@hotmail.com

Name: Thank you for your email. I am closely watching the election atStanding Rock and do understand what the implications may be. I am of theopinion, as I believe the rest of the Board of Higher Education is, thatwe intended to accomodate the July and September elections at StandingRock. Therefore, if, as a result of the elections, it is clear that theyintend to approve the use of the name and logo with a long term agreement,and our timeline is the only roadblock, I would urge that the timeline beextended to accomodate them. Our dates are not, in my view, what isimportant, it is the intent to let the tribes speak. Hope this clarifies.Grant Shaft