Joe Finley

[The Sicatoka]

Where was the rest of the team on those oddman rushes.

Finley's defensive partner made decisions that left him covering odd-man rushes more than once.

Finley's defensive partner had his lowest performing game of his season that fateful Thursday.

[sprig]

Finley's defensive partner made decisions that left him covering odd-man rushes more than once.

Finley's defensive partner had his lowest performing game of his season that fateful Thursday.

That's no doubt correct, Sic; unfortunately for Finley, he was the one in the camera on national TV, most didn't even realize there was a dman missing (or who he was) from the picture (as well as 3 forwards).

The defense taking lots of chances was the norm for the year, imo they should be more selective in when/where to take those chances. The coaches obviously wanted it played that way as it went on all year. The lack of a high end offensive opponent (as well as the allowed holding and interference in the WCHA) made up for that type of play all year long in the regular season.

[redwing77]

Finley's defensive partner made decisions that left him covering odd-man rushes more than once.

Finley's defensive partner had his lowest performing game of his season that fateful Thursday.

Doesn't matter. Finley was in the picture, so it is Finley's fault.

(P.S. You're 100% right, but still)

[Goon]

Finley's defensive partner made decisions that left him covering odd-man rushes more than once.

Finley's defensive partner had his lowest performing game of his season that fateful Thursday.

There could be an argument that the whole team played poorly, no goaltending, no scoring and defensively, the Sioux were outcoach and the team looked lost. To blame Finley for everything is just not right.

[happy]

Does finley like his draft team? Is he a free agent after August after his senior year?

[siouxweet]

There could be an argument that the whole team played poorly, no goaltending, no scoring and defensively, the Sioux were outcoach and the team looked lost. To blame Finley for everything is just not right.

agree 100%. well stated. hopefully this season they can get the frozen four thing figured out.

[yababy8]

There could be an argument that the whole team played poorly, no goaltending, no scoring and defensively, the Sioux were outcoach and the team looked lost. To blame Finley for everything is just not right.

I put up a post about this before but given the constant Finley debate I will say it again.

I was at the Pepsi center for the meltdown and I re-watched the game three times since then. And here is the fact of the matter when it comes to who did and did not do what;

(Sans Johnn Filllipy) Genoway pretty much single handedly lost that game for us.

In all but one of the first five goals he made a horrible move or lack of a move that either allowed the shot or was the primary error that led to the shot. Please, before you contest this with me, I suggest you watch the game again. Just fast forwad to the goals (carefull, they come often). Further I can say that in three of the goals there was nothing Finley could have done to save the situation (please don't tell me he could have stopped the first goal, Genoway is out there figure skating and leaves the puck sitting there for an fast fast break. That was an very unexpected error and there would be no reason for finley to think Genoway would have melted that much.)

..I cannot remeber the fourth goal at the moment. I'll go watch it if anyone wants to make the bogus argument that Finley should have saved him. By the way, If I recall correctly on one of his goof-up goals Finley wasn't even on the ice with him. He had already changed- I think with Chorney...

Now where is the coversation about Genoway and whether or not the forward convert has a complete enough skill set and defesive acumen to succeed at the D1 level? let's start that thread.

Here is what I have to say about Genoway;

Awesome skater. Often very aggresive offesive defensemen. Very good insincts and vision on the offesive side. Adequate on the defesive side but very green when it comes to defesive decision making and vision. Can be exposed by teams with offesive skill as seen against BC. This was not realized last year until the frozen four because the WCHA in its new defensive minded paradigm presented no team that had the offesive talent to expose the flaw.

Don't get mr wrong, I like Genoway. I like his intesity and he is obviously a great competitor but he aint a defensive expert.

[Trunk Monkey]

I put up a post about this before but given the constant Finley debate I will say it again.

I was at the Pepsi center for the meltdown and I re-watched the game three times since then. And here is the fact of the matter when it comes to who did and did not do what;

(Sans Johnn Filllipy) Genoway pretty much single handedly lost that game for us.

In all but one of the first five goals he made a horrible move or lack of a move that either allowed the shot or was the primary error that led to the shot. Please, before you contest this with me, I suggest you watch the game again. Just fast forwad to the goals (carefull, they come often). Further I can say that in three of the goals there was nothing Finley could have done to save the situation (please don't tell me he could have stopped the first goal, Genoway is out there figure skating and leaves the puck sitting there for an fast fast break. That was an very unexpected error and there would be no reason for finley to think Genoway would have melted that much.)

..I cannot remeber the fourth goal at the moment. I'll go watch it if anyone wants to make the bogus argument that Finley should have saved him. By the way, If I recall correctly on one of his goof-up goals Finley wasn't even on the ice with him. He had already changed- I think with Chorney...

Now where is the coversation about Genoway and whether or not the forward convert has a complete enough skill set and defesive acumen to succeed at the D1 level? let's start that thread.

Here is what I have to say about Genoway;

Awesome skater. Often very aggresive offesive defensemen. Very good insincts and vision on the offesive side. Adequate on the defesive side but very green when it comes to defesive decision making and vision. Can be exposed by teams with offesive skill as seen against BC. This was not realized last year until the frozen four because the WCHA in its new defensive minded paradigm presented no team that had the offesive talent to expose the flaw.

Don't get mr wrong, I like Genoway. I like his intesity and he is obviously a great competitor but he aint a defensive expert.

My recollection of the game as well - Genoway, one of my favorite players, made several critical mistakes that directly lead to several of the BC goals.

[iramurphy]

My recollection of the game as well - Genoway, one of my favorite players, made several critical mistakes that directly lead to several of the BC goals.

I am not sure anyone played well in that game. It is a team game. We laid an egg. There was good talent last year and we will have good talent again this year. We have good coaching and if we get good goal tending should be able to make another run. It isn't rocket science it is hockey. All you as a fan need is a goofy hat and a beer and show up on time. The rest will take care of itself.

UND will be lucky if Finley is back. He has improved year after year and will likely be ready for his best year yet. Too many people let their goofy hat get in their eyes or too many beers if they think there isn't a team in the country that wouldn't love to have him.

[Siouxmama]

Does finley like his draft team? Is he a free agent after August after his senior year?

Yes, he does.

[redwing77]

The flaw with talking about Genoway's role in all of this is that Genoway is a fan favorite.

It is ALWAYS easier to blame a player you don't like rather than to own up and state that your favorite, or one of your favorite, players had a bad game.

iramurphy is right. As a team we played awful hockey. Genoway had his worst game of the season. Yet after the game there were fingers pointed at two people mainly: Finley and Hakstol. There is some valid points made about questioning the preparation of Hak for this game, but there were zero valid points made about Finley.

It is a crying shame that we live in a world where there are people who enjoy putting people down, putting the "hating" on, and generally being destructive towards people who really don't deserve it.

You don't have to be excited that Finley is staying. You don't have to like Finley. But I really think the "Please Go" statements (and worse) needs to stop.

[#1fan]

The flaw with talking about Genoway's role in all of this is that Genoway is a fan favorite.

It is ALWAYS easier to blame a player you don't like rather than to own up and state that your favorite, or one of your favorite, players had a bad game.

iramurphy is right. As a team we played awful hockey. Genoway had his worst game of the season. Yet after the game there were fingers pointed at two people mainly: Finley and Hakstol. There is some valid points made about questioning the preparation of Hak for this game, but there were zero valid points made about Finley.

It is a crying shame that we live in a world where there are people who enjoy putting people down, putting the "hating" on, and generally being destructive towards people who really don't deserve it.

You don't have to be excited that Finley is staying. You don't have to like Finley. But I really think the "Please Go" statements (and worse) needs to stop.

[stickboy1956]

The flaw with talking about Genoway's role in all of this is that Genoway is a fan favorite.

It is ALWAYS easier to blame a player you don't like rather than to own up and state that your favorite, or one of your favorite, players had a bad game.

iramurphy is right. As a team we played awful hockey. Genoway had his worst game of the season. Yet after the game there were fingers pointed at two people mainly: Finley and Hakstol. There is some valid points made about questioning the preparation of Hak for this game, but there were zero valid points made about Finley.

It is a crying shame that we live in a world where there are people who enjoy putting people down, putting the "hating" on, and generally being destructive towards people who really don't deserve it.

You don't have to be excited that Finley is staying. You don't have to like Finley. But I really think the "Please Go" statements (and worse) needs to stop.

What should have Hakstol done differently in preparing his team? It was his 4th F4 as a head coach and has 2 trips as an assistant w/Blais.

[hky]

What should have Hakstol done differently in preparing his team? It was his 4th F4 as a head coach and has 2 trips as an assistant w/Blais.

How about insist that his defensemen play defense first when Gerbe was on the ice, rather than let Chay take the chances he was able to get away with all year, but not this day.

[stickboy1956]

How about insist that his defensemen play defense first when Gerbe was on the ice, rather than let Chay take the chances he was able to get away with all year, but not this day.

... and we know he didn't tell his players this? Didn't we have a pretty good GAA coming into that game?

[redwing77]

What should have Hakstol done differently in preparing his team? It was his 4th F4 as a head coach and has 2 trips as an assistant w/Blais.

I'm not critical of Hakstol at all. There's only so much a coach can do. The players have to go out on the ice and execute it well otherwise divine intervention would be required for a positive outcome.

To be honest, I only partially paid attention to the points when they were made. I was too stubborn (and still am) that this loss was a TEAM loss, not dependent upon a certain player or coach. Therefore, by assumption, then Hakstol falls as part of the problem. He did not coach well enough and the players didn't play well enough. Therefore, we lost.

Likewise, Gerbe isn't THE Reason BC won. Muse seemed to play very well. Their defense did a pretty good job too.

#1fan - You cited my post but I saw no added text. Did I miss something?

[siouxweet]

Stu Bickel just crapped his pants. I wonder if he can stand behind Lucia for an entire series.

looks like he chickened out and signed with the Ducks to avoid running up against Big Joe.

[soohockey15]

I put up a post about this before but given the constant Finley debate I will say it again.

I was at the Pepsi center for the meltdown and I re-watched the game three times since then. And here is the fact of the matter when it comes to who did and did not do what;

(Sans Johnn Filllipy) Genoway pretty much single handedly lost that game for us.

In all but one of the first five goals he made a horrible move or lack of a move that either allowed the shot or was the primary error that led to the shot. Please, before you contest this with me, I suggest you watch the game again. Just fast forwad to the goals (carefull, they come often). Further I can say that in three of the goals there was nothing Finley could have done to save the situation (please don't tell me he could have stopped the first goal, Genoway is out there figure skating and leaves the puck sitting there for an fast fast break. That was an very unexpected error and there would be no reason for finley to think Genoway would have melted that much.)

..I cannot remeber the fourth goal at the moment. I'll go watch it if anyone wants to make the bogus argument that Finley should have saved him. By the way, If I recall correctly on one of his goof-up goals Finley wasn't even on the ice with him. He had already changed- I think with Chorney...

Now where is the coversation about Genoway and whether or not the forward convert has a complete enough skill set and defesive acumen to succeed at the D1 level? let's start that thread.

Here is what I have to say about Genoway;

Awesome skater. Often very aggresive offesive defensemen. Very good insincts and vision on the offesive side. Adequate on the defesive side but very green when it comes to defesive decision making and vision. Can be exposed by teams with offesive skill as seen against BC. This was not realized last year until the frozen four because the WCHA in its new defensive minded paradigm presented no team that had the offesive talent to expose the flaw.

Don't get mr wrong, I like Genoway. I like his intesity and he is obviously a great competitor but he aint a defensive expert.

Yep, cause the salty offense was just POURING goals past Muse....

[Siouxtimestwo]

I know I'm attempting to speak for a number of people, which is never a good idea, so I'll just give you my thoughts on Joe and you guys let me know if you agree. I don't dislike Finley personally, although you should hear my wife, a die-hard UND fan, curse him. Joe is a physical presence on the ice, one whom I would agree has gotten better each year he's played here. It was a tough adjustment learning to play at the college level, especially with his size.

Without getting too philosophical, Finley in a way represents the new definition of Sioux hockey and I think some fans don't like the new way we play. UND has had big, physical defensemen for a number of years, but they always seemed to have an attitude of aggression. For whatever reason, Joe is physical, but he just doesn't seem to have the nastiness that a Greene, for example, had. It always amuses me when other schools label us as dirty, because that is the polar opposite of what I've seen out of our teams under Hak. If anything, I think we play on our heels too much and are too soft. That doesn't mean I think Hakstol is a poor coach or should be replaced. He just has a different philosophy and wants to play a different style of play than Dean or Gino. That style has been highly successful, as evidenced by the Frozen Four trips, but it's not always pretty on the eyes, especially the slow starts.

The loss to BC this year wasn't heartbreaking so much because of the score or the disappointment of not winning it all, but rather it was the fact that we got beat by the old Fighting Sioux. Slap an 80s or 90s Sioux jersey on that BC team and you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. Those teams didn't win the title every year, nor should the Sioux be expected to now, but the style of play made it seem like they were working harder. This past year's Sioux team gave it everything they had, they were simply outclassed. However, our current style of play and our slow starts will always leave some fans wondering if the boys really are giving it their all since they're not flying up and down the ice like teams past have. Joe's play is typical of this. Of course he's working hard and doing his best. His draft status and his limited offensive ability are always going to be leave him open to criticism, whether fair or unfair. He's out there for one reason, to be an enforcer on defense. Our team philosophy is to stress defense and play it safe, so when a team skates circles around us, it's hard to stomach when we realize that could have been us 5 years ago.

Genoway was brought up earlier, for good reason because he didn't play well. Genoway doesn't get criticized like Finley not only because he's a fan favorite, but also because he's a throwback player. When he gets burned and is out of position trying to make a play, it's no different than Finley getting skated past. No matter how it happens, it's a goal, but fans who yearn for the free-flowing offensive hockey of years past are willing to forgive a player for trying to create offense.

[mikejm]

Allow to me help out here:

[Siouxmama]

Allow to me help out here:

The wheels on the bus go round and round...........and unfortunately they are running over Sioux players.

[redwing77]

The wheels on the bus go round and round...........and unfortunately they are running over Sioux players.

Depending upon the player, the bus' wheels go forward and reverse and forward again and reverse....

[The Whistler]

How does Finley's partner falling down and coughing up the puck to one of the fastest players in the country reflect poorly on his play.

At least in the first instance he did a terrific job of turning around (unlike the BC player who was ready to go) and almost caught up to him on the other side of the ice.

In my world that was almost a great play by Joe.

[Siouxtimestwo]

So nobody's got anything to say. Of course the people who want Finley to leave are idiots. That doesn't mean anyone who discusses a player's mistakes intelligently should be lumped in with the idiots. Anyone who blindly defends a player and claim them to be flawless are just as moronic as the people who blindly hate them. Against BC, no one played well. People who blame that solely on Finley are idiots. People that think Finley is the best player on the ice merely because he was a first round draft pick are idiots as well.

I want Finley to stay, but I want us as a team to quit trying to be Mini-Wisconsin and open up the game a little bit. I'm old enough to remember when merely good enough wasn't acceptable at UND. You had to be exceptional to play for the Fighting Sioux. We didn't roll out 2 scoring lines and 2 forward lines who were just out there to give the other guys a break. Finley will be better next year and we'll support him no matter what. Supporting a player doesn't mean you can't call an apple an apple when they make a bad play or have a bad game.

Are any of you parents? Do you consider yourself or other parents to be poor parents if you get after or reprimand your children when they make mistakes, or do you just blindly ignore any issues or problems and hope they will magically go away? Then why do some of you treat other fans that way? Just because someone says something critical of a player when he makes a mistake doesn't mean they're terrible fans. People on both sides of the Finley argument need to grow up. If you think you're so much better than everyone else that you take pleasure in ripping your fellow fans, I'm sure the Gophers would gladly accept you on their bandwagon.

[yababy8]

Yep, cause the salty offense was just POURING goals past Muse....

Our offense was on a roughly 20 game beaten once streak without "pouring" goals past anyone.

Now I agree that the Sioux need to focus more on offense as a team. I think last year they were just plain bad at setting up anyone offensivly. Those who felt that BC played like we used to are in my opinion right on. I don't think the Sioux have really had that style since Hack has been calling the shots... remember the days of Blake, Panzer, Hoogs, and many other crafty fowards who worked the puck down the ice with creativity and purpose. I remember Haks first year and I was like oh I guess we are a dump and run team now..

Our teams have done pretty well employing that style but I prefer the BC or 90's Sioux style much more as a fan.