darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? I would say you had a point if they competed at the same level, but they don't. Fisher is the Knights and what is Grand Forks Central....Knights. Distance between cities is 15 miles. Was Fisher brought up in 1994 during the nickname process? No, Knights was a finalist because its in the school song. There is no reason UND can't be the Roughriders along with Red River, just keep the colors and have a different logo and its fine. Quote
jdub27 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 And how, exactly, is a February 2012 news article evidence of "continuous" use? Are you looking for a yearly update from opposing coaches saying "Yep, still bringing up that train wreck of a nickname mess"? Or are you going off the assumption that that since once the nickname was dropped, that clearly resolved the issue and every opposing coach decided it wasn't worth bringing up anymore? Quote
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 To believe that UND's nickname status is not used against it by opponents (everywhere from the recruiting trail to the playing surface) is naivety writ epic. Admit it: If the tables were turned, you'd use it. So what you're saying is that recruiters have the same disregard for logic as the NCAA fear mongers on this site? Or is it the recruits? Call me naive, but I think that UND is better served by not having such simple-minded individuals enrolled as students. 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 So what you're saying is that recruiters have the same disregard for logic as the NCAA fear mongers on this site? Or is it the recruits? Call me naive, but I think that UND is better served by not having such simple-minded individuals enrolled as students. I think UND is better served with an NCAA approved nickname. 1 Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Fisher is the Knights and what is Grand Forks Central....Knights. Distance between cities is 15 miles. Was Fisher brought up in 1994 during the nickname process? No, Knights was a finalist because its in the school song. There is no reason UND can't be the Roughriders along with Red River, just keep the colors and have a different logo and its fine. It wasn't brought up in 1994, but it was brought up several years prior when some people said we can't use Knights because "Climax-Fisher has asked us not to" and wah, wah, wah. I was a student at Central during that time and I remember getting sick and tired of hearing what everybody else wanted when those people had little or no stake in the future of the school. I didn't care what Climax-Fisher wanted then and I still don't care today. And that is why I am not particularly sympathetic towards people that don't want us to use Roughriders because GFRR uses it. As a result of genuflecting to everybody else, we got stuck with Maroon and Grey for several years, which was a total joke. I do not want UND to make the same mistake. 2 Quote
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Are you looking for a yearly update from opposing coaches saying "Yep, still bringing up that train wreck of a nickname mess"? Or are you going off the assumption that that since once the nickname was dropped, that clearly resolved the issue and every opposing coach decided it wasn't worth bringing up anymore? All I'm looking for is people to stop using fear tactics. If you're going to say UND needs a nickname because X, and X is specious on its face, then you'd better be willing to back it up and support it. Rank speculation is hardly called for here, and serves no one. If it's an opinion, state it like one. 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 It wasn't brought up in 1994, but it was brought up several years prior when some people said we can't use Knights because "Climax-Fisher has asked us not to" and wah, wah, wah. I was a student at Central during that time and I remember getting sick and tired of hearing what everybody else wanted when those people had little or no stake in the future of the school. I didn't care what Climax-Fisher wanted then and I still don't care today. And that is why I am not particularly sympathetic towards people that don't want us to use Roughriders because GFRR uses it. As a result of genuflecting to everybody else, we got stuck with Maroon and Grey for several years, which was a total joke. I do not want UND to make the same mistake. Exactly, we choose a name not based on anyone else but what was good for the school. Knights is in the song and it was that or Pride, if we actually cared about being unique and cared about what people across the river felt GFC would've been the Pride. Same situation you just said, who cares if RR is the Roughriders or Saskatchewan, or this school or that team. Lets pick a name and roll with it. NDSU is the Bison along with half a dozen or more schools in the NCAA and in Canada (we play the Bisons every year in hockey). Fighting Sioux was a great name and unique as no one else had it, but thats over so lets get a name and start a new chapter in UND history that began in 1883. 1 Quote
jdub27 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 So what you're saying is that recruiters have the same disregard for logic as the NCAA fear mongers on this site? Or is it the recruits? Call me naive, but I think that UND is better served by not having such simple-minded individuals enrolled as students. All I'm looking for is people to stop using fear tactics. If you're going to say UND needs a nickname because X, and X is specious on its face, then you'd better be willing to back it up and support it. Rank speculation is hardly called for here, and serves no one. If it's an opinion, state it like one. There is an opposing coach on record saying that it was used against UND. There is a former UND head coach saying it was used against them. Your argument is that since no one has said anything in the media the last couple years that means it has stopped despite the nickname issue still being unresolved? UND coaches aren't going to continuously bring it up because all schools have various things used against them in recruiting and this is part of the hand they've been dealt (though on the surface, it should be a resolvable one). I guess I'm not sure what you're looking for in terms of proof of it and whether or not you want to believe it or just pretend it doesn't exist is your prerogative. But if someone is going to claim that the nickname issue hasn't, doesn't or won't have any bearing on what happens on the field, they are wrong. 5 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 All I'm looking for is people to stop using fear tactics. If you're going to say UND needs a nickname because X, and X is specious on its face, then you'd better be willing to back it up and support it. Rank speculation is hardly called for here, and serves no one. If it's an opinion, state it like one. How about this...let's pick a name because all UND is being talked about is being without a nickname. NDSU is being talked about because of their athletics and what they do on the field (or court), every time UND plays they always bring up the nickname issue, (why there is no nickname, and why the Fighting Sioux got retired). Are people in Grand Forks still talking about the Redskins being retired or the Warriors at 3 different schools? I bet the numbers is only a handful as their new nicknames has taken over. Same with UND, this cooling off period was to stick a band Aid on an open wound, and going with no name is causing an infection to that wound. Picking a new name will kickstart the healing process and in 20 years that wound will be just a little scar. 2 1 Quote
scpa0305 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 It is continuously used against UND on the recruiting trail. Whether what opposing coaches are telling recruits is true or not doesn't matter, what matters is it is another way to put doubt in recruits mind that there could be some sort of instability or future consequences down the road. This was especially true when UND didn't have a conference and was looking for one or were facing possible sanctions, but have continued on because the matter isn't settled. It will continue to be so until the nickname issue is put to bed. Choosing "no nickname" doesn't do this. What? This doesn't make sense whatsoever to me. The hockey team as done just fine without a nickname. The other sports simply need to coach and recruit better. Tyson Jost just named UND and Denver as potential landing spots. Do you think his train of thought is revolving around the nicknames each school has or doesn't have? I don't. I think the nickname is so far down his line of thinking that it wouldn't even be listed in a pro vs con analysis for each school. 1 Quote
UND1983 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 What? This doesn't make sense whatsoever to me. The hockey team as done just fine without a nickname. The other sports simply need to coach and recruit better. Tyson Jost just named UND and Denver as potential landing spots. Do you think his train of thought is revolving around the nicknames each school has or doesn't have? I don't. I think the nickname is so far down his line of thinking that it wouldn't even be listed in a pro vs con analysis for each school. The hockey team also has a 100 million dollar arena to sell and possibly the best history in the NCAA hockey. Football and basketball do not and have to fight for everything they get just to try and build their program. Anything that can be used against them is a problem. The conference and name issue were verified problems. 2 1 Quote
jdub27 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 What? This doesn't make sense whatsoever to me. The hockey team as done just fine without a nickname. The other sports simply need to coach and recruit better. Tyson Jost just named UND and Denver as potential landing spots. Do you think his train of thought is revolving around the nicknames each school has or doesn't have? I don't. I think the nickname is so far down his line of thinking that it wouldn't even be listed in a pro vs con analysis for each school. I guess I'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you. Hakstol seemed to understand it when he came out publicly in favor of retiring the nickname because of the challenges it caused for the athletic department, some of which still continue to exist because the issue still isn't resolved. Hockey is one of the sports that would be least affected by any issues and even so, they have a $100+ million state of the art arena to fallback on. You aren't comparing apples to apples. Just because it doesn't have a huge effect on hockey doesn't mean it isn't an issue within the rest of the athletic department. But I guess the other programs just need to recruit better. You know what would make that easier? Not having to deal with the nickname issue in additional to the typical BS stuff they (and all other coaches) go up against. 1 2 Quote
scpa0305 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 The hockey team also has a 100 million dollar arena to sell and possibly the best history in the NCAA hockey. Football and basketball do not and have to fight for everything they get just to try and build their program. Anything that can be used against them is a problem. The conference and name issue were verified problems. Really, ok then. Some of you will know more than me. I definitely get the conference but the nickname? The name is retired, so the conference is set in stone. Quote
UND1983 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Really, ok then. Some of you will know more than me. I definitely get the conference but the nickname? The name is retired, so the conference is set in stone. As I said before, it was an issue. Not anymore due to no sanctions or naughty list. Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 As I said before, it was an issue. Not anymore due to no sanctions or naughty list. Unless UND goes the no-nickname route and the NCAA says naughty naughty then we may revisit that list. Quote
homer Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Really, ok then. Some of you will know more than me. I definitely get the conference but the nickname? The name is retired, so the conference is set in stone. Is the name officially retired if only North Dakota is selected as the replacement? Does it meet criteria set forth by the NCAA? Quote
Hayduke Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Unless UND goes the no-nickname route and the NCAA says naughty naughty then we may revisit that list. Exactly. Even if I would hear from the NCAA that it was okay, I don't trust them. They could tell me that the sky was blue and I'd go outside and look for myself. We don't want sanctions. If we don't comply with a nickname may end up on double-secret probation. Then, we'll have a toga party. Because it won't matter what we do...we're going to get caught. 1 Quote
Popular Post Siouxperfan7 Posted June 22, 2015 Popular Post Posted June 22, 2015 UND is getting a new nickname. There are 7 names left. The new nickname will be 1 of those 7 names. Roughriders is the best available option. Roughriders fits the criteria laid out by the committee more than the other 6 names left. Roughriders should be the new nickname of UND. It really is that simple. 10 Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 UND is getting a new nickname. There are 7 names left. The new nickname will be 1 of those 7 names. Roughriders is the best available option. Roughriders fits the criteria laid out by the committee more than the other 6 names left. Roughriders should be the new nickname of UND. It really is that simple. Except this whole process has been everything but simple. Quote
SWSiouxMN Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Except this whole process has been everything but simple. Something tells me that it is going to get messier. Quote
bigskyvikes Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Unless UND goes the no-nickname route and the NCAA says naughty naughty then we may revisit that list. I like reading these arguments, NIMH, is the only one making sense, and SCPA hit the nail on the head! I always wait for this paranoid comment to come in like Darell said! Let me ask you, do you think you know more about what UND can/cannot do on the nickname issue then they do? Simple question! Quote
homer Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 I like reading these arguments, NIMH, is the only one making sense, and SCPA hit the nail on the head! I always wait for this paranoid comment to come in like Darell said! Let me ask you, do you think you know more about what UND can/cannot do on the nickname issue then they do? Simple question! The NCAA is the only one that knows for certain what will be acceptable and what will not. They have made the rules and moved the goalposts where ever they have for the last 5+ years. Do you know for certain that not officially choosing a new nickname will be accepted by the NCAA? Quote
bigskyvikes Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 The NCAA is the only one that knows for certain what will be acceptable and what will not. They have made the rules and moved the goalposts where ever they have for the last 5+ years. Do you know for certain that not officially choosing a new nickname will be accepted by the NCAA? Yes, because it is still an option to choose for a nickname from the people in the 'know'! Quote
jackal Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Yes, because it is still an option to choose for a nickname from the people in the 'know'! lol Quote
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Yes, because it is still an option to choose for a nickname from the people in the 'know'! People who also thought they were in the "know" thought a state law would force the NCAA to take the Sioux name off the list. How did that turn out? Until we see a statement from the NCAA, choosing the "no nickname" as a nickname is still a scary slope. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.