Negotiated Settlement?

[The Whistler]

If there is anyone with a brain at the University they should just drop the name when the 3 years is up and then not adapt a new nickname. There is no rule with the NC$$ that you have to have a nickname, I'm guessing, so with no new nickname what will everyone call our sports teams? Just go back to the North Dakota jerseys in hockey and use the interlocking ND on all others. Problem solved.

If it comes to that then I support your idea.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

Sheeps. A lot of y'all must be, or shoulda been, undertakers the way we been shoveling dirt on this deal

as if the name is dead and done. Me, perhaps, included.

After a few deep breaths, I have come around to believing that this thing is far from over. Some good solid advocacy, some well-placed intentions, some commitment to programs and legacy, and a bit of cash on the barrel to boot will keep the name, and logo, well afloat.

I am quite sure of it. The tribal leaders have both boatloads of pride, and plenty of need. They are also both smart and highly respected. They will know how to leverage this deal, and will readily see the wisdom in doing so.

The activists will go in search of some new cause, unless the University agrees to give them 9-5 jobs at a fair wage as part of the deal.

Smoke 'em if you've got 'em.

[Goon]

Is the Pope Catholic?

The pope is from Germany

[The Whistler]

The red flag is that we get our approval on a day to day basis. The tribes can approve it one day and disapprove it the next. Who would agree to that?

[Sioux,CO]

The red flag is that we get our approval on a day to day basis. The tribes can approve it one day and disapprove it the next. Who would agree to that?

Exactly. We would be at the mercy of both tribes right to change their minds and force us to change the name within a year. That is a death nail.

[Matt]

QUOTE:

UND must win approval from the tribal councils of both the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake reservations.

If that approval is granted, it may be withdrawn at any time and UND must change its nickname within one year, said Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem.

This is the part that is the deal breaker for me. The idea that a future tribal council can put the issue back on their agenda so soon after the deadline and change their mind. I heard Scott Hennen interview the AG who said (paraphrase) that the tribe's decision is no more permanent than laws passed by the legislature are permanent until the next session can change them. True enough. However, in the context of ncaa policy, the ncaa certainly could consider the tribal council's decision binding for whatever length of time they choose. Any settlement should include language making the tribal decision binding for ncaa policy for an extended period of time. Maybe not in perpetuity, but certainly long enough for this issue with the accompanying emotional and financial implications it has, to rest for a while.

I know the Seminole tribe has solidarity with FSU on this issue, but with the tribal politics I have seen in this state, I have no such confidence here.

[kvinbe]

I'm very proud of the way that the people of North Dakota (American Indians and people of other cultures) and its leaders are handling this situation. By securing a settlement, our leaders have ensured that this issue will be handled with respect, dignity, and integrity. Our actions are now demonstrating that we are not what the NCAA was depicting us to be. If it's a good thing to keep the name, it will be kept. If it's not, it will go.

Thank God cooler heads prevailed. This is one issue where fanaticism has no place. Though the word "fan" is derived from "fanatic," I for one believe that we can be great fans without becoming fanatics.

Yes, go Sioux, but first, go University of North Dakota (with respect, dignity, and integrity).

[BigGame]

Casinos exist because most people enjoy gambling, not support or oppose the owners views. Should UND fans never go to Mystic Lake casino because they support Minnesota's athletic program?

Oh, now I get it. Some groups are allowed to protest and look like they are doing the world a favor and people of the opposing viewpoint are not allowed the same. So hypocricy just needs to remain the norm for everyone then?

[iramurphy]

There would be no reason to stop supporting UND athletics. The kids and coaches had nothing to do with this. There is no reason to rag on the attorney General or the other attorneys involved. I believe most legal minds felt we would win this lawsuit and the NCAA would be able to make sure they properly follow all of their own procedures and guidelines then return to court and make it stick. some times you need to be smart enough to cut your losses. The only thing I object to is that there is no reason to place any restrictions on the Ralph. Heck, its a piece of history and we should save it for generations yet to come.

Choosing the name was done for the right reason and will be discontinued for the wrong reason. The logo and traditions of UND Fighting Sioux Athletics are something to be proud of and this decison doesn't change that.

The Fighting Sioux have never been the name. The Fighting Sioux are not the Native American tribes. Other than recognizing their place in the history of the state of ND the Sioux American Indians have nothing to do with UND athletics. The Fighting Sioux are the University of North Dakota student body, alumni and supporters who have made Fighting Sioux Athletics what it is. The name and logo don't change that. If it does, then the activists and the NCAA will be able to claim a big victory.

I would initiate plans to change the name or simply drop the name effective next school year. If one or more of the tribes wish the privilage and recognition that goes along with being associated with UND athletics then let them request the privilage and UND can decide if they are honorable enough to continue the name.. If they don't, I wouldn't approach them. They have chosen to no longer associate their history with UND and I would simply say too bad for you and ignore them. No protests, no harrassments, no special programs but make sure they are treated with the same fairness and respect as any other of our students or our states citizens. Some day they may regret the decision but who cares? It is their choice now. Their leaders seem to want to polarize their people and kids and so I would say good luck and you are welcome to go to school here, all you need is and ACT of 23(or whatever it is) and a GPA of 2.5 (or whatever it is). You will not be placed on committees or given places of honor that you don't earn with your own deeds, same as anyone else. They are not to be mistreated harrassed or in anyway treated differently.

Many of them will say agreed and many of them will say wait a minute, that isn't what we want. My answer is that of today your leaders have decided you no longer wish to hold a place of honor and respect at UND based on your history. It was a great run, but good luck. We will get on with the next chapter of a storied and proud heritage at UND without you. I am a big supporter of the name and the great logo but I wouldn't be willing to prostitute the University and especially Fighting Sioux atheltics to a group of people who are not interested in continuing this relationship. It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work.

Go Sioux!

[NorthDakotaHockey]

It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work.

Geez. You didn't need to drag me into this thing, did you?

I agree with everything else that you say.

[johndahl]

Well, if we can't be the Sioux because it's politically incorrect, maybe we can be the Casino-Owning Americans.

No, not for that reason - out of respect for Ralph Engelstad, of course

[Hawkster]

I said a long time ago this would happen, and a million dollars later, it did. I just hope we don't insult the tribal leadership with some kind "incentive" to let us keep the name.

[OETKB]

There would be no reason to stop supporting UND athletics. The kids and coaches had nothing to do with this. There is no reason to rag on the attorney General or the other attorneys involved. I believe most legal minds felt we would win this lawsuit and the NCAA would be able to make sure they properly follow all of their own procedures and guidelines then return to court and make it stick. some times you need to be smart enough to cut your losses. The only thing I object to is that there is no reason to place any restrictions on the Ralph. Heck, its a piece of history and we should save it for generations yet to come.

Choosing the name was done for the right reason and will be discontinued for the wrong reason. The logo and traditions of UND Fighting Sioux Athletics are something to be proud of and this decison doesn't change that.

The Fighting Sioux have never been the name. The Fighting Sioux are not the Native American tribes. Other than recognizing their place in the history of the state of ND the Sioux American Indians have nothing to do with UND athletics. The Fighting Sioux are the University of North Dakota student body, alumni and supporters who have made Fighting Sioux Athletics what it is. The name and logo don't change that. If it does, then the activists and the NCAA will be able to claim a big victory.

I would initiate plans to change the name or simply drop the name effective next school year. If one or more of the tribes wish the privilage and recognition that goes along with being associated with UND athletics then let them request the privilage and UND can decide if they are honorable enough to continue the name.. If they don't, I wouldn't approach them. They have chosen to no longer associate their history with UND and I would simply say too bad for you and ignore them. No protests, no harrassments, no special programs but make sure they are treated with the same fairness and respect as any other of our students or our states citizens. Some day they may regret the decision but who cares? It is their choice now. Their leaders seem to want to polarize their people and kids and so I would say good luck and you are welcome to go to school here, all you need is and ACT of 23(or whatever it is) and a GPA of 2.5 (or whatever it is). You will not be placed on committees or given places of honor that you don't earn with your own deeds, same as anyone else. They are not to be mistreated harrassed or in anyway treated differently.

Many of them will say agreed and many of them will say wait a minute, that isn't what we want. My answer is that of today your leaders have decided you no longer wish to hold a place of honor and respect at UND based on your history. It was a great run, but good luck. We will get on with the next chapter of a storied and proud heritage at UND without you. I am a big supporter of the name and the great logo but I wouldn't be willing to prostitute the University and especially Fighting Sioux atheltics to a group of people who are not interested in continuing this relationship. It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work.

Go Sioux!

Very well said. I believe that being forced to change the nickname because of lack of support from the Tribes will equate to the end of an era. Eventually, you will see the special programs/placements lose support at UND.

This settlement is a blow to free speech everywhere. To me, this was always an issue of free speech, not whether or not we could convince the NCAA that we had tribal support. UND (ND Board) has caved in on the real issue here, and thus UND has become another victim to the seemingly unstoppable wave of PC thought police that are infecting this country like a runaway virus.

[Goon]

Many of them will say agreed and many of them will say wait a minute, that isn't what we want. My answer is that of today your leaders have decided you no longer wish to hold a place of honor and respect at UND based on your history. It was a great run, but good luck. We will get on with the next chapter of a storied and proud heritage at UND without you. I am a big supporter of the name and the great logo but I wouldn't be willing to prostitute the University and especially Fighting Sioux atheltics to a group of people who are not interested in continuing this relationship. It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work.

Go Sioux!

I detect a bit of genius in that post. I like it.

[johndahl]

I'll probably get blasted for this idea but here goes nothing......

There seems to be much hatred towards the NCAA for mandating this. Some have said that its "illegal" or "unconsitutional" for the NCAA to govern. To that my response is.... leave the NCAA. The NCAA is a group or club. Just like any self governed group the members must play by the rules. If UND and its supporters want to keep the name....then leave. If you want to say then ditch the name. It's pretty simple. Also, I have heard many criticize the NCAA and refer to it as NC$$.... Please feel free to give the NCAA its money back once a conference is gained for non-football sports. I"m sure that the NCAA would love to not have to give monies from the NCAA basketball tournaments to UND.

That's not true. The NCAA can't ban black men from trying out for sports, or do other things that violate equal protection or other civil rights. But in this case they seem to make a distinction between Fighting Sioux and Fighting Irish, which is illegal. Note also that they aren't really a private organization, as they're run by mostly state actors (i.e. public universities).

Leaving the NCAA because one believes they're violating equal protection civil rights isn't a reasonable response.

[Hammersmith]

As for long-term tribal approval, just agree to it only if it's for 99 years and can only be revoked by a 75% vote of the entire tribe or something. That should keep council politics out of it and keep the name secure unless UND does something really bad to piss the tribe off(how often have you seen 75% of a voting group agree on something?).

[Dak]

I said a long time ago this would happen, and a million dollars later, it did. I just hope we don't insult the tribal leadership with some kind "incentive" to let us keep the name.

UND is not a whore. IF they want to support us fine. If not it's their loss.

[jimdahl]

That's not a bad point, but you could hold those events at the Alerus just fine under the NCAA regulations, right? I don't go to too many football games, but I think the only logo that might create a problem would be on the field.

Unfortunately, no. The NCAA intentionally made the stick a bit bigger than that. Any team deemed to currently have a hostile and abusive nickname, logo, or mascot is banned from hosting any NCAA tournament at any venue. In participating, they can't use their "hostile" imagery; but under no circumstances are they ever allowed to host.

Further, under the previous rules, any team that plays at a venue with any such nicknames, logos, or mascots is also subject to the above restrictions on post-season play. That's why judging the granite logos outside of UND's control (at REA) not to invoke the penalty is such a big deal.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Well, looks like its come down to this:

-you have three years to accomplish what hasn't been done in the last fifteen (or more) years.

-if not, you have four years to kowtow to the NCAA's small committee of PC-heads and change to a bright fuzzy color.

Right now, I have more in common with the "we spent a million dollars for THIS?" posters than anyone else. I cannot see much this "settlement" bought you other than three years to ease into a name/logo change. The sword of Damocles will be forever over your heads; even if you initially reach some sort of an agreement with the tribes, given the one year notice it won't be long before the children on the reservations keep coming back for more and more and more; and the adults at the University will eventually tire of the endless meetings to listen to people stuck back in the 1800's talking about smallpox blankets-they'll just say "we can't come to an agreement" and before you know it your school will be the Praire Winds or whatever.

An added deadline to accomplish something you had been trying to do all along isn't productive.

[oldralph]

I say let's get on with changing the name. And let us never forget how the tribes have let us down when we needed their support. As they say, payback is a bitch and they are going to learn this....that's not a threat or anything...this is nothing to get that worked up about. We can do a great job getting a new namesake and the best part is we will no longer have to cater to a group of people in the hopes they will side with us. They are on their own now...no more special deals or additional programs and buildings. Let's get on with ignoring the Sioux tribes, they don't deserve the attention.

Personally I'd like to see UND named the North Stars. They could change the Sioux logos to Stars and it really does fit...the University of North Dakota North Stars...has a nice ring, don't you think?

[HockeyMom]

the University of North Dakota Fighting Scotsmen

BRILLIANT!

We could start an "If it's not Scottish, it's crap!" chant!!!

[Oxbow6]

BRILLIANT!

We could start an "If it's not Scottish, it's crap!" chant!!!

I'm still laughing!! Amid all the disappointment from the 'settlement" and reading much of this thread, that was a classic!!

[HockeyMom]

Seriously people, have a positive attitude about all of this......please. We don't know what anyone is thinking.

*points to sig*

Too many of you want to jump off the bridge too early, too often.

Let it settle for a little while before you give up.

The glass is half full, not half empty.

[tnt]

There would be no reason to stop supporting UND athletics. The kids and coaches had nothing to do with this. There is no reason to rag on the attorney General or the other attorneys involved. I believe most legal minds felt we would win this lawsuit and the NCAA would be able to make sure they properly follow all of their own procedures and guidelines then return to court and make it stick. some times you need to be smart enough to cut your losses. The only thing I object to is that there is no reason to place any restrictions on the Ralph. Heck, its a piece of history and we should save it for generations yet to come.

Choosing the name was done for the right reason and will be discontinued for the wrong reason. The logo and traditions of UND Fighting Sioux Athletics are something to be proud of and this decison doesn't change that.

The Fighting Sioux have never been the name. The Fighting Sioux are not the Native American tribes. Other than recognizing their place in the history of the state of ND the Sioux American Indians have nothing to do with UND athletics. The Fighting Sioux are the University of North Dakota student body, alumni and supporters who have made Fighting Sioux Athletics what it is. The name and logo don't change that. If it does, then the activists and the NCAA will be able to claim a big victory.

I would initiate plans to change the name or simply drop the name effective next school year. If one or more of the tribes wish the privilage and recognition that goes along with being associated with UND athletics then let them request the privilage and UND can decide if they are honorable enough to continue the name.. If they don't, I wouldn't approach them. They have chosen to no longer associate their history with UND and I would simply say too bad for you and ignore them. No protests, no harrassments, no special programs but make sure they are treated with the same fairness and respect as any other of our students or our states citizens. Some day they may regret the decision but who cares? It is their choice now. Their leaders seem to want to polarize their people and kids and so I would say good luck and you are welcome to go to school here, all you need is and ACT of 23(or whatever it is) and a GPA of 2.5 (or whatever it is). You will not be placed on committees or given places of honor that you don't earn with your own deeds, same as anyone else. They are not to be mistreated harrassed or in anyway treated differently.

Many of them will say agreed and many of them will say wait a minute, that isn't what we want. My answer is that of today your leaders have decided you no longer wish to hold a place of honor and respect at UND based on your history. It was a great run, but good luck. We will get on with the next chapter of a storied and proud heritage at UND without you. I am a big supporter of the name and the great logo but I wouldn't be willing to prostitute the University and especially Fighting Sioux atheltics to a group of people who are not interested in continuing this relationship. It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work.

Go Sioux!

Don't think it could have been layed out any better. The publicity and cultural awareness derived from the nickname will slowly fade away, and after a while many Native Americans might wonder how and why their leadership led them down that path. I can only hope that UND leadership would use this approach and realize what a priviledge it is to be aligned with the University of North Dakota.

[HockeyMom]

I'm still laughing!! Amid all the disappointment from the 'settlement" and reading much of this thread, that was a classic!!

There were so many more posts that I wanted to make fun of, but I figured that people would get all upset.......I'm just trying to make light of the situation before people start taking their own lives.

I had the perfect line for "UND is not a whore" but I'm sure I would've offended Sioux-cia or something. LMFAO