Tom Buning and Gene Taylor on KFGO Today

[bincitysioux]

Here are my thoughts on today's interview:

As always, Bunning was a class act and represented UND extremely well. When asked by Big Ed what it will take to resume the rivalry as early as 2007, Bunning replied, "I'm ready". Also, I was a little worried that Buning may come off as "begging" NDSU for a game. Obviously, this is not the case as UND football for the last 4-5 years has experience all-time highs in attendance and televison covereage. He did great job to point out that both A.D.s, know the importance of a rivalry as Buning came from Army, and Taylor came from Navy. As already reported, Taylor had reservations, saying yes, it would probably make sense for 2007 with the scheduling situations at both schools, but he was reluctant to schedule for 2007 because with NDSU being playoff eligible in 2008 there was no way that he would consider a non-counter on the schedule in 2008, so he felt it would be unfair to players, coaches, and fans, to play the game for one year, and then have to discontinue it for a indeterminable amount of time. He also threw out that it would be unfair to play only in football to other coaches and not in the other sports.

I had to chuckle to myself the way that Gene Taylor mentioned that Roger Thomas basically put a stop to the rivalry and the reason was because in 2004 the playoff implications were a serious factor for a DII (UND) playing a DI (NDSU). He said that since Buning came to UND, they have had open converstions about the games. But now, when the shoe is on the other foot, he doesn't want to play UND because it will potentially hurt NDSU's playoff chances in 2008. I completely understand that philosophy, just as I did in 2003 when UND decided not to play NDSU in the 2004 season...........................why, because it would have hurt their playoff chances. I personally see alot less benefit for NDSU playing UND in 2008 than in 2007. Had UND moved up first and was at the same point in transition that NDSU currently is, I would absolutely feel the same way. However, it appears to me that apparently Gene Taylor may have learned something about being an A.D. form Roger Thomas.

As I try to examine the situation from an objective point of view (as objective as a die-hard Sioux fan can, that is ) , I gathered this: If I were an NDSU booster/alumni/fan I would be very upset. To claim that NDSU has a significant amount of schools willing to come to Fargo that would generate the same amount of interest as a UND football game in Fargo is laughable. The reason I would be upset is because I know that college athletics is many things, but first and foremost, it is a business. And, IMHO, it is bad business to assume that it would be good business to turn down a sure sell-out crowd on my home field. To add to that, it would be a game that would provide statewide network TV exposure, along with cable TV coverage in the tri-state area. If I had a vested interest in NDSU athletics, I don't see how paying a guarantee of $30,000-50,000 to get a DII or a willing (likely low-interest) FCS school which would probably draw around 12,000-13,000 fans would be more desireable/beneficial/profitable to NDSU than having a team that offers a sure sell-out come to Fargo for apparently free. Economics 101, people, do they offer that course anywhere in Fargo?

[bincitysioux]

Oh yeah, the best quote of the interview by far was when Gene Taylor said, "it is not a matter of if the rivalry will resume, but when."

That ought to really set off Lakesbison!

[NDSU grad]

Georgia Southern's coming to Fargo in 2008 to return the trip we made down there this past year. From the site SiouxMD linked they were penalized about 5.5 scholarships and it looks like that was for the 2005-2006 academic year; whether they're still under probation I have no idea.

A top level FCS team to open the season would almost be guaranteed a sellout at the Fargodome. The Bison always draw well for the opener, even for crappy opponents.

As a Bison fan, I am not upset we will not play the Sioux in 2007. I am quite indifferent about the whole thing, and have really enjoyed the rivalry being halted. I honestly think it would be best for the well-being of both schools in the long-term if the rivalry was never resumed, but I realize that will probably not happen. I really think the hatred and animosity that exists between the two institutions could be tempered somewhat if they never met on an athletic field again.

[siouxforeverbaby]

Georgia Southern's coming to Fargo in 2008 to return the trip we made down there this past year. From the site SiouxMD linked they were penalized about 5.5 scholarships and it looks like that was for the 2005-2006 academic year; whether they're still under probation I have no idea.

A top level FCS team to open the season would almost be guaranteed a sellout at the Fargodome. The Bison always draw well for the opener, even for crappy opponents.

As a Bison fan, I am not upset we will not play the Sioux in 2007. I am quite indifferent about the whole thing, and have really enjoyed the rivalry being halted. I honestly think it would be best for the well-being of both schools in the long-term if the rivalry was never resumed, but I realize that will probably not happen. I really think the hatred and animosity that exists between the two institutions could be tempered somewhat if they never met on an athletic field again.

um, if what NDSU and UND fans have said to each other both in life and on boards like this are any indication, that one ain't ever gonna happen. I truly believe that UND and NDSU will play each other and it will be a good thing. I grew up in ND and have missed that game ever since they haven't played. I realize that to people that aren't from around here it is hard to understand, but let me put it this way, to me growing up the Sioux-Bison game was my Super Bowl. I never liked the actual Super Bowl, but I loved the rivalry.

[Matt]

Before NDSU made the move up, there were many people in Fargo asking who would go to the games for the 5-10 years when the Bison were getting their butts kicked by unfamiliar teams few care about, before they could get competitive. I think the fact that didn't come to fruition is a key reason Taylor can say no to Buning. Let's face it, if NDSU were having trouble selling tickets, UND would be on the schedule for '07. They would then need something from UND. How can Taylor afford to keep UND off the schedule? Because he has the cash from last year, and the breathless anticipation of Bison fans waiting for the '07 schedule.

[Gothmog]

um, if what NDSU and UND fans have said to each other both in life and on boards like this are any indication, that one ain't ever gonna happen. I truly believe that UND and NDSU will play each other and it will be a good thing. I grew up in ND and have missed that game ever since they haven't played. I realize that to people that aren't from around here it is hard to understand, but let me put it this way, to me growing up the Sioux-Bison game was my Super Bowl. I never liked the actual Super Bowl, but I loved the rivalry.

Apparently 50% of NDSU fans don't miss the rivalry and don't want to see it resumed. You'd think that a few of those fans are also from "around here."

I'm also a native North Dakotan and I agree with NDSU Fan, both schools are better off without the hatred and animosity generated by this poisonous athletic rivalry.

[Dagger]

One of the biggest misconceptions around is that everyone, including Bison and Sioux fans, said that the Bison were going to get their butts kicked when they went DIAA. Sioux fans and Bison fans actually have said for years that the quality of play in the NCC was extremely high and very comparable to DIAA. When NDSU decided to go DIAA it was only then that NDSU put forth the idea that DIAA was a totally different level of football, meaning a whole lot better. The bottom line is that when the top teams in DII have played some of the better teams in DIAA they have beaten them or gave them a good game. NDSU and UND have both proved that. Nobody that really followed and understood football ever doubted that the Bison would do just fine in DIAA football. Believe me I'm not saying that DIAA football isn't better, it just isn't the huge junp that Bison fans are trying to portray NOW. The Sioux will do just fine when they get going in DIAA football. The fact is the Bison weren't even a playoff team when they left DII and almost immediately were a ranked team in DIAA. A person doesn't need to say anymore than that.

[Stromer]

Apparently 50% of NDSU fans don't miss the rivalry and don't want to see it resumed. You'd think that a few of those fans are also from "around here."

I'm also a native North Dakotan and I agree with NDSU Fan, both schools are better off without the hatred and animosity generated by this poisonous athletic rivalry.

And what made this rivalry so poisonous? It has always been a good rivalry but this break has elevated it to the madness setting. Instead of seeing who is better on the field and then taunting the other team for a year, we sit on boards like this one and debate who is the most evil, why we hate the other, who is a coward, and how many babies the other teams posters eat. It isn't healthy to be obsessed like this, yet both sides are. If we could just play and get a result, the attention could be taken away from the negative actions of both institutions and the focus would be back on athletics. By the way, I don't think we schedule NDSU until we are fully funded and are a counter towards NDSU. That way both teams are even and it will not hurt the chances of NDSU making the playoffs. After resuming, the rivalry should be an every year occurance. Its a joke not to have a in state rivalry, an even bigger joke when this rivalry was one of the longest in the nation. This thing started out like Michigan-Michigan St., its a rivalry but not a lot of hatred. When resumed, I don't think another rivalry can compare to the amount of hatred held by both of these teams fans.

[Matt]

One of the biggest misconceptions around is that everyone, including Bison and Sioux fans, said that the Bison were going to get their butts kicked when they went DIAA. Sioux fans and Bison fans actually have said for years that the quality of play in the NCC was extremely high and very comparable to DIAA. When NDSU decided to go DIAA it was only then that NDSU put forth the idea that DIAA was a totally different level of football, meaning a whole lot better. The bottom line is that when the top teams in DII have played some of the better teams in DIAA they have beaten them or gave them a good game. NDSU and UND have both proved that. Nobody that really followed and understood football ever doubted that the Bison would do just fine in DIAA football. Believe me I'm not saying that DIAA football isn't better, it just isn't the huge junp that Bison fans are trying to portray NOW. The Sioux will do just fine when they get going in DIAA football. The fact is the Bison weren't even a playoff team when they left DII and almost immediately were a ranked team in DIAA. A person doesn't need to say anymore than that.

I don't think you really mean everyone thought that. Of course they didn't. I can fill pages on this topic with media hits referencing the "misconception" that NDSU would struggle for x number of years, and I'm not just talking about the time frame immediately preceding the move. That discussion goes back decades. Sure, many people also thought they could compete. But I brought that up not to argue the point, only to support the suggestion that because the football program isn't having trouble selling tickets, they are able to keep UND off the schedule.

[lakesioux]

Apparently 50% of NDSU fans don't miss the rivalry and don't want to see it resumed. You'd think that a few of those fans are also from "around here."

I'm also a native North Dakotan and I agree with NDSU Fan, both schools are better off without the hatred and animosity generated by this poisonous athletic rivalry.

Good point. I am writing a letter to Steinbrenner & Epstein to IMMEDIATELY cancel the poisonous rivalry between the Yankees & Red Sox. CC Fargo South - Fargo North, Red River - Central, and virtually every soccer team in Europe. Surely those fans will catch our fever to temper the competitiveness of our 2 flagship universities. Now that's "Minnesota Nice"!!

If you can tell me that you never enjoyed this rivalry from a tractor in the fall, sitting on a bench at Dakotah Field or Memorial Stadium, while picking off some birds in Northern Minnesota or poking friendly fun at fans from the other team AND you are a Bison fan, I'm not sure you have any business here. Try reading. Non-competitively of course.

We don't need to beg for this game b/c clearly it's good for the entire area. I think that Michigan & Michigan State play each other every year and neither city has burned down. Same for Texas - Texas Tech (minus the burn down part), Colorado - Colorado State, etc. and every other rivalry that makes college football wonderful.

[UND-1]

Before NDSU made the move up, there were many people in Fargo asking who would go to the games for the 5-10 years when the Bison were getting their butts kicked by unfamiliar teams few care about, before they could get competitive. I think the fact that didn't come to fruition is a key reason Taylor can say no to Buning. Let's face it, if NDSU were having trouble selling tickets, UND would be on the schedule for '07. They would then need something from UND. How can Taylor afford to keep UND off the schedule? Because he has the cash from last year, and the breathless anticipation of Bison fans waiting for the '07 schedule.

You have to give Bison fans credit, they bought into this D1-AA thing bigtime.

[Bison Dan]

You have to give Bison fans credit, they bought into this D1-AA thing bigtime.

You bet! Chance to play new (good) teams from all over the country. The ability to play full DI teams ie: MN, Ball State, Iowa State and not be penalized for it by some mickey mouse dii rules committee. What's not to like?

[BisSioux]

Show me one true sellout at the Fargodome (since the last time UND played there) without thousands of tickets being given away or sold at substantially reduced prices.

Before NDSU made the move up, there were many people in Fargo asking who would go to the games for the 5-10 years when the Bison were getting their butts kicked by unfamiliar teams few care about, before they could get competitive. I think the fact that didn't come to fruition is a key reason Taylor can say no to Buning. Let's face it, if NDSU were having trouble selling tickets, UND would be on the schedule for '07. They would then need something from UND. How can Taylor afford to keep UND off the schedule? Because he has the cash from last year, and the breathless anticipation of Bison fans waiting for the '07 schedule.

[DI IN FARGO]

Show me one true sellout at the Fargodome (since the last time UND played there) without thousands of tickets being given away or sold at substantially reduced prices.

Much to your dismay the NDSU vs. SDSU game was a true sellout, holds the record attendance for any sporting event in ND. I was there and it was electric. You guys can keep harping but we don't have to give tickets away to the number one sporting event in ND.

[star2city]

I can fill pages on this topic with media hits referencing the "misconception" that NDSU would struggle for x number of years, and I'm not just talking about the time frame immediately preceding the move. That discussion goes back decades. Sure, many people also thought they could compete. But I brought that up not to argue the point, only to support the suggestion that because the football program isn't having trouble selling tickets, they are able to keep UND off the schedule.

This is rewriting history. Of all sports, football was the one everyone agreed that NDSU would have success. Basketball and most of the Olympic sports were the ones that everyone agreed NDSU would need to write off.

Miles and his basketball team, more than anyone, has proven this wrong. But then again, look at SDSU's mens team- that what was anticipated for NDSU. BTW, SDSU women's team has proven that a former NCC team can be highly competitive in DI.

[petey23]

Much to your dismay the NDSU vs. SDSU game was a true sellout, holds the record attendance for any sporting event in ND. I was there and it was electric. You guys can keep harping but we don't have to give tickets away to the number one sporting event in ND.

I know funny and that right there is funny as I am looking at the sticker that I peeled off the front page of the forum for 2 for 1 tickets to bison football games in case you were too busy to run down to cynthia's cakes and get them free.

[Bison Dan]

Show me one true sellout at the Fargodome (since the last time UND played there) without thousands of tickets being given away or sold at substantially reduced prices.

Thousands of tickets given away - YOU know that for a fact? There were some general admin ticket deals (end zone seating)during the year but the SDSU game was packed with people being turned away. The game was great with a large SDSU contingent. Don't let your jealousy make you say stupid things. With your declining fb attendance I think it's funny that you poo poo our attendance. From the BISON Media Blog "FWIW, a home game generally nets 80-100K. Northeastern game netted 90K, after an 80K guarantee. SDSU netted 200K, as it was a sellout with no guarantee."

[aff]

Thousands of tickets given away - YOU know that for a fact? There were some general admin ticket deals (end zone seating)during the year but the SDSU game was packed with people being turned away. The game was great with a large SDSU contingent. Don't let your jealousy make you say stupid things. With your declining fb attendance I think it's funny that you poo poo our attendance. From the BISON Media Blog "FWIW, a home game generally nets 80-100K. Northeastern game netted 90K, after an 80K guarantee. SDSU netted 200K, as it was a sellout with no guarantee."

Are you sure you didn't pay SDSU something for that game? I have a hard time believing that SDSU would travel to the fargo dome twice in a row with no compensation from NDSU for their lost home game (which likely would have netted them quite a bit of money also at home). Even if it was scheduled by the conference that way, I would think some sort of compensation would be in order for playing two games in a row at the fargodome.

[star2city]

I really think the hatred and animosity that exists between the two institutions could be tempered somewhat if they never met on an athletic field again.

When NDSU fans accusingly talk about the hatred between the schools, they are speaking about their own heart-felt emotions. There is a very one-sided hatred here and it is not coming from UND fans. Look at the Bison board (heaven help me): it is filled with screed after screed of UND venom. Here, there are less than half the number of posts, and many of them are by Bison fans or Bison fans masquerading as Sioux fans. When NDSU changes its school song that is mockingly derogatory and obscene about UND, and when NDSU fans no longer rejoice in that song, then I could possibly agree that the emotions in this issue are not one-sided.

[bincitysioux]

From the BISON Media Blog "FWIW, a home game generally nets 80-100K. Northeastern game netted 90K, after an 80K guarantee. SDSU netted 200K, as it was a sellout with no guarantee."

Well there you have it then, I would be concerned if the leader of my university's athletic department felt netting $90,000 is better than netting $200,000. I wasn't a business major, but I know stupid when I see it.

[Bison Dan]

Well there you have it then, I would be concerned if the leader of my university's athletic department felt netting $90,000 is better than netting $200,000. I wasn't a business major, but I know stupid when I see it.

So RT was stupid to stop scheduling NDSU in all sports?

[The Sicatoka]

So RT was stupid to stop scheduling NDSU in all sports?

At the time, the question was,

"Is NDSU throwing away a fiscally sweet deal by leaving the NCC?"

I say the jury is still out.

[Bison Dan]

At the time, the question was,

"Is NDSU throwing away a fiscally sweet deal by leaving the NCC?"

I say the jury is still out.

So what's UND's reason for leaving? You may say the jury is still out but you won't find many in your camp.

[The Sicatoka]

So what's UND's reason for leaving? You may say the jury is still out but you won't find many in your camp.

The fiscal jury? Roll open the NDSU books.

[jimdahl]

So what's UND's reason for leaving? You may say the jury is still out but you won't find many in your camp.

There's no question UND would have preferred the status quo (a stable NCC and D-II). However, externalities outside our control (changing D-II and loss of our peers in the NCC) eliminated that as an option. Forced to choose between declining with D-II and the NCC or make a risky reclassification, UND is making the only obvious choice.

No doubt there's some fiscal risk, but I think UND is planning for and managing it quite responsibly (as demonstrated by the Bisonville Forensic Accounting club's repeated failures at unearthing fiscal distress at UND in excess of that at NDSU).