Facilities Master Plan

[bincitysioux]

Politically, Grand Forks has to be worried about UND eventually building a larger stadium on campus. If they could find a way to expand it to seat 25,000 plus people they could ensure that UND would not outgrow the facility for at least another 20-30 years. They could even host a hockey game or tournament there to help increase revenue.

I doubt the city would entertain the idea of footing the bill to double the size of the Alerus to accomodate even its #1 tenant that cannot currently fill even 2/3 of the available seating of the arena...................

Especially when most council members cite UND's transition to DI as being one of the main factors that the facility loses money every year..................

[IrishSiouxFan]

I doubt the city would entertain the idea of footing the bill to double the size of the Alerus to accomodate even its #1 tenant that cannot currently fill even 2/3 of the available seating of the arena...................

Especially when most council members cite UND's transition to DI as being one of the main factors that the facility loses money every year..................

Attendance will go up after this season. If they think they're losing money now, imagine how much they will lose when UND builds an on campus stadium. Renovating the Alerus helps protect their investment and puts UND in a position for a FBS upgrade.

[bincitysioux]

Attendance will go up after this season. If they think they're losing money now, imagine how much they will lose when UND builds an on campus stadium. Renovating the Alerus helps protect their investment and puts UND in a position for a FBS upgrade.

You and I have disagreed on this subject several times.........................but if UND is to one day expand and join the FBS ranks, I admit I'd get behind the idea alot more if it meant staying indoors in a city-subsidized expanded Alerus vs. an outdoor stadium...................I think the atmosphere would be much better with 10,000 fans in a 25,000 seat indoor stadium that it would with 10,000 fans in a 25,000 seat outdoor stadium............

Plus, I wouldn't have to freeze my ass off in November every other year watching North Dakota duke it out with Lamar for the right to be the first alternate in Ed's Bait Shop Bowl..........................

[bincitysioux]

The Betty is the practice facility - a brass and leather and granite plated one at that. Four courts can be used simultaneously (although not efficiently.) The Betty has like eight locker rooms, with home locker rooms for Volleyball, M&W basketball, and W Soccer, offices for all the coaches, as well as weight rooms and study rooms.

A smaller arena with suites, club seating, and video monitorsoffers something the IPF can't - cash flow - and is about the only way a UND basketball program can break even. The Betty - even if it sells out - just doesn't have the extras that are needed to bring in revenue and sell the game to people under 30.

True sports fans may hate this, but college sports is maybe more about entertainment and socializing than about the game. Why is tailgating so popular? Why is the Ralph so popular? In large part because of the social and entertainment aspect. The Betty offers neither to any degree.

My question is, why couldn't state of the art video boards simply be added to the Betty? The Sioux Center is a beautiful arena and that is about the only thing it is missing. There have been many discussions about the logistics of the Sioux Center, but IMO I think it is a great home for North Dakota basketball. It seats a little over 3,000 and if memory serves Big Sky basketball attendence averages a shade under 3,000. The double header format (which inflated attendance numbers in the DII days) is going to be a thing of the past. When the Sioux Center is full, it provides a great environment.

I've been accused on occaision here of "thinking small" when it comes to the future of North Dakota athletics, and specifically regarding facilities.................but having more "intimate" venues has its advantages too. It provides a better atmosphere on gameday, drives up demand for seating which can escalate ticket prices, drives up Fighting Sioux Club donations in order to procure season tickets, and gives more reason to get sporting events on TV.

[darell1976]

Could the Alerus be transfered into a retractable roof stadium? Just pop the roof off and stick a new roof on it and add seating in the endzones to make us FBS eligible.

[UNDColorado]

Could the Alerus be transfered into a retractable roof stadium? Just pop the roof off and stick a new roof on it and add seating in the endzones to make us FBS eligible.

That would be so cool but I could be wrong here but to me it looks like the Al was built to be permanent; i.e. not able to be expanded. But yeah it would be ideal if it could be expanded into a horseshoe and a retractable roof added in. Anybody have any insight on whether the Al can even be expanded on?

[Sioux_FF]

That would be so cool but I could be wrong here but to me it looks like the Al was built to be permanent; i.e. not able to be expanded. But yeah it would be ideal if it could be expanded into a horseshoe and a retractable roof added in. Anybody have any insight on whether the Al can even be expanded on?

Any ideas what the major announcement is going to be today?

From WDAZ.com this morning. Is this UND related?

Scheels President Steve M. Scheel will make a "major" announcement today at a 5:00 press conference according to a press release. The announcement will take place at the Grand Forks Scheels location at the Med Park Mall on Columbia Road.

[PhillySioux]

If there has been no noise from the athletic department, my guess is that perhaps Scheels is putting an appropriate sized store in GF.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

If there has been no noise from the athletic department, my guess is that perhaps Scheels is putting an appropriate sized store in GF.

And my guess, if that is true, would be the old Target location is FINALLY going to be used.

[dakota fairways]

And my guess, if that is true, would be the old Target location is FINALLY going to be used.

Like Bismarck

[IrishSiouxFan]

That would be so cool but I could be wrong here but to me it looks like the Al was built to be permanent; i.e. not able to be expanded. But yeah it would be ideal if it could be expanded into a horseshoe and a retractable roof added in. Anybody have any insight on whether the Al can even be expanded on?

I was thinking about how they might go about expanding the field for end zone seating while I was at the Drake game last week. I think it could be done, but I'm not sure how it would look or if it would add enough seats to justify the expenditure. It's very unfortunate that expansion was not in the original design, I mean who designs a $100 million facility with a 20-30 shelf life? Apparently the Grand Forks City Council.

[Cratter]

And my guess, if that is true, would be the old Target location is FINALLY going to be used.

Yes, I would assume so. Scheels has been in hush hush talks with the Mall to use the old Target building for some time now.

Looks like things might finally be finalized.

[SIOUXFAN97]

The Alerus is what it is. A concrete box along the highway that made a handful of local people a lot of money (kind of like the Choice Wellness Center will). Sterile and boring (kind of like the Drake game!!). Hopefully Faision is working behind the scenes to secure a long term home for Sioux football for their entry into to the BSC and beyond (WAC/MWC???). Why is it that UND hasn't paid for a football stadium maybe since the 1920's yet it still doesn't have a plan or money set aside for a on-campus football stadium that would cost millions of dollars? I know its nice to have people like Ralph to cut checks for 125 milion dollars but when are we gonna lead the way and get it done.

[UNDColorado]

The Alerus is what it is. A concrete box along the highway that made a handful of local people a lot of money (kind of like the Choice Wellness Center will). Sterile and boring (kind of like the Drake game!!). Hopefully Faision is working behind the scenes to secure a long term home for Sioux football for their entry into to the BSC and beyond (WAC/MWC???). Why is it that UND hasn't paid for a football stadium maybe since the 1920's yet it still doesn't have a plan or money set aside for a on-campus football stadium that would cost millions of dollars? I know its nice to have people like Ralph to cut checks for 125 milion dollars but when are we gonna lead the way and get it done.

+1 Well said sir.

[star2city]

Yes, I would assume so. Scheels has been in hush hush talks with the Mall to use the old Target building for some time now.

Looks like things might finally be finalized.

Could see Scheels building along 42nd south of Alerus too.

[the green team]

The Alerus is what it is. A concrete box along the highway that made a handful of local people a lot of money (kind of like the Choice Wellness Center will). Sterile and boring (kind of like the Drake game!!). Hopefully Faision is working behind the scenes to secure a long term home for Sioux football for their entry into to the BSC and beyond (WAC/MWC???). Why is it that UND hasn't paid for a football stadium maybe since the 1920's yet it still doesn't have a plan or money set aside for a on-campus football stadium that would cost millions of dollars? I know its nice to have people like Ralph to cut checks for 125 milion dollars but when are we gonna lead the way and get it done.

Sorry I don't see the Alerus that way. Most multipurpose venues will have a sterile feel. But it's the fans that make the impact of the atmosphere. I believe the problem is that our fan base has gotten so spoiled with it's facilities that they have lazily grown accustomed to cheer or look to video boards to be entertained or when to cheer and be rowdy. Really, it boils down to the fan- the experience is what you make it...if you're into the game- your going to have a great time if you're just going to just sit there like a tree stump- then I guess you most likely will not have a good time...but then what will? I will say that our TEAM better start playing a little better- like scoring more than 1 offensive touchdown against a non scholarship D1 would help too. The point is I think the Football facility question is far more complex than "sterile & boring"- Unless you were talking about our offense.

[darell1976]

Sorry I don't see the Alerus that way. Most multipurpose venues will have a sterile feel. But it's the fans that make the impact of the atmosphere. I believe the problem is that our fan base has gotten so spoiled with it's facilities that they have lazily grown accustomed to cheer or look to video boards to be entertained or when to cheer and be rowdy. Really, it boils down to the fan- the experience is what you make it...if you're into the game- your going to have a great time if you're just going to just sit there like a tree stump- then I guess you most likely will not have a good time...but then what will? I will say that our TEAM better start playing a little better- like scoring more than 1 offensive touchdown against a non scholarship D1 would help too. The point is I think the Football facility question is far more complex than "sterile & boring"- Unless you were talking about our offense.

The Alerus is just like the Fargodome. If you look at the outside of the building you wouldn't think NDSU plays there except the message sign in the corner of the lot with the word NDSU on the top along with some sponsors. There is no sign that says home of NDSU football or a Bison logo on the building just that pinwheel and the word Fargodome. And on the inside there is no Bison logo on the field just the Fargodome logo. the green team is right its not the building its the fans. 17,000 people will make a difference not a stupid pinwheel, just like 12,000 fans will make a difference not a sign on the outside of the building saying home of UND football.

[SIOUXFAN97]

Sorry I don't see the Alerus that way. Most multipurpose venues will have a sterile feel. But it's the fans that make the impact of the atmosphere. I believe the problem is that our fan base has gotten so spoiled with it's facilities that they have lazily grown accustomed to cheer or look to video boards to be entertained or when to cheer and be rowdy. Really, it boils down to the fan- the experience is what you make it...if you're into the game- your going to have a great time if you're just going to just sit there like a tree stump- then I guess you most likely will not have a good time...but then what will? I will say that our TEAM better start playing a little better- like scoring more than 1 offensive touchdown against a non scholarship D1 would help too. The point is I think the Football facility question is far more complex than "sterile & boring"- Unless you were talking about our offense.

I dare you to find a FCS team that plays on a football field that is more boring that piece of junk rug at the Al? Two giant Alerus logos and two Sioux words in the end zones? I know they replacing the field next year but what are the odds the Alerus center logos will be bigger and more in your face? They should have the interlocking N&D at midfield, with the Big Sky logo at the 25 and North in one end zone and Dakota in the other. The sound system stinks. Me and my three friends that went to the Drake game couldn't hear a word anyone was saying about anything the whole game. The banners that hang from the roof also partially block the video boards too. Also the rise over run or pitch of the seats sucks. I'm only how many rows up when i sit in the last row behind the students yet I feel i'm miles from the action. Compare that to REA where they have the highest pitch possible (ADA sets this i think?) for their seats and sit in the last row of REA and you feel your right on top of the action. In my mind the seating pitch is one the biggest failures in the Alerus that makes that it feel so sterile.

[tnt]

I dare you to find a FCS team that plays on a football field that is more boring that piece of junk rug at the Al? Two giant Alerus logos and two Sioux words in the end zones? I know they replacing the field next year but what are the odds the Alerus center logos will be bigger and more in your face? They should have the interlocking N&D at midfield, with the Big Sky logo at the 25 and North in one end zone and Dakota in the other. The sound system stinks. Me and my three friends that went to the Drake game couldn't hear a word anyone was saying about anything the whole game. The banners that hang from the roof also partially block the video boards too. Also the rise over run or pitch of the seats sucks. I'm only how many rows up when i sit in the last row behind the students yet I feel i'm miles from the action. Compare that to REA where they have the highest pitch possible (ADA sets this i think?) for their seats and sit in the last row of REA and you feel your right on top of the action. In my mind the seating pitch is one the biggest failures in the Alerus that makes that it feel so sterile.

Really, logos on the field is a big concern for you. As for video boards, there are many teams that would love to have video boards period. I've heard fans that come in here and wish they had a facility like it. Is it perfect? No. I can imagine if they do get a new field, then there would be the complaints that it's too cold again, and we go back to the days of 2000-3000 at a playoff game. By the way, have you ever heard of the DakotaDome?

[IrishSiouxFan]

Really, logos on the field is a big concern for you. As for video boards, there are many teams that would love to have video boards period. I've heard fans that come in here and wish they had a facility like it. Is it perfect? No. I can imagine if they do get a new field, then there would be the complaints that it's too cold again, and we go back to the days of 2000-3000 at a playoff game. By the way, have you ever heard of the DakotaDome?

But he makes a very valid point, that the Alerus Center doesn't feel like it's a part of the university. It is lacking in the same culture that makes the REA feel like a true UND tradition. I realize that we are struggling with attendance and we always will as long as we continue to schedule home games against "Nobody State University", that and getting beat by "Nobody State University". The Alerus might be okay for now but it's definitely not the permanent home of UND football and as stakeholders in this program we are more than ready to see a glimpse of the future. You are right that a lot of schools would love to have the Alerus and the video boards, but we are not most schools, we are much, much better than that and expect exceptional things from an institution we this proud of.

[goyotes]

Really, logos on the field is a big concern for you. As for video boards, there are many teams that would love to have video boards period. I've heard fans that come in here and wish they had a facility like it. Is it perfect? No. I can imagine if they do get a new field, then there would be the complaints that it's too cold again, and we go back to the days of 2000-3000 at a playoff game. By the way, have you ever heard of the DakotaDome?

The original Dome in the Dakotas is definitely showing its age, but unlike the Alerus it is owned by USD. This eliminates the need for an indoor practice and/or indoor track facility.

Also, unlike the Alerus, it has some expansion capability. Current plans are to build a basketball/volleyball arena that will seat approx 6,000 and will be attached to the Dome, with athletic offices, etc in the space between the two facilities. Once the arena is complete, the Dome will be remodeled and additional seating added to bring the capacity upto 16,000. All the permanent seats were replaced this summer with new red chair back seats. New turf is also planned as part of the remodeling, but could be put in as soon as 2012.

In summary, I would rather own and control the facility then have to lease it from someone else.

[PhillySioux]

Yes, I would assume so. Scheels has been in hush hush talks with the Mall to use the old Target building for some time now.

Looks like things might finally be finalized.

Scheels confirmed move to old target space in 2014. Big deal for that mall.

[the green team]

I dare you to find a FCS team that plays on a football field that is more boring that piece of junk rug at the Al? Two giant Alerus logos and two Sioux words in the end zones? I know they replacing the field next year but what are the odds the Alerus center logos will be bigger and more in your face? They should have the interlocking N&D at midfield, with the Big Sky logo at the 25 and North in one end zone and Dakota in the other. The sound system stinks. Me and my three friends that went to the Drake game couldn't hear a word anyone was saying about anything the whole game. The banners that hang from the roof also partially block the video boards too. Also the rise over run or pitch of the seats sucks. I'm only how many rows up when i sit in the last row behind the students yet I feel i'm miles from the action. Compare that to REA where they have the highest pitch possible (ADA sets this i think?) for their seats and sit in the last row of REA and you feel your right on top of the action. In my mind the seating pitch is one the biggest failures in the Alerus that makes that it feel so sterile.

Actually, I have a feeling that a lot of FCS schools would love our facilities. Which Louisiana schools did we play? I heard those were just aweful places... but I'm not here to get into a pissing match. The one example I do want to pass along that applies to my point that the fans are a big factor--occurred tonight at the Betty. I admit, I'm glad we have the Betty- in fact grateful, but I-- who go to a lot of basketball games, don't think it's a great venue for UND basketball. I've said that before, however the reason it was fun to be at the Betty tonight for Volleyball is because the fans were spectacular. It was fun, I didn't need video boards, I don't need logos- I need a absolutely dedicated to the cause fan base. We could have played in the Pit of Despair (Princess Bride) for all I care, but as long as we had an active student body, along with regular fans, loud, boisterous and having a good time- that's all I need. That can make any facility feel like home.

[MplsBison]

The original Dome in the Dakotas is definitely showing its age, but unlike the Alerus it is owned by USD. This eliminates the need for an indoor practice and/or indoor track facility.

Also, unlike the Alerus, it has some expansion capability. Current plans are to build a basketball/volleyball arena that will seat approx 6,000 and will be attached to the Dome, with athletic offices, etc in the space between the two facilities. Once the arena is complete, the Dome will be remodeled and additional seating added to bring the capacity upto 16,000. All the permanent seats were replaced this summer with new red chair back seats. New turf is also planned as part of the remodeling, but could be put in as soon as 2012.

In summary, I would rather own and control the facility then have to lease it from someone else.

Those sound like great upgrades for USD.

I was surprised to learn how much smaller the two research universities in South Dakota are compared to the two research universities in North Dakota - particularly USD. Looks like the regional colleges in SD have more enrollment and pull than the regional colleges in ND and that makes up the difference. In particular, SD Mines has the other accredited engineering school in SD instead of USD, where as UND has the other accredited engineering school in ND.

But I'm sure both a looking for growth opportunities that have come with the DI move.

[bisonh8er]

So basically what some people are saying is ya our stadium sucks, but their stadium sucks worse so we don't need a new stadium? Personally, I think if the football program wants to really be a contender then recruits have to have a reason to come here. Its no different then opportunity cost in business. What we lack in things such as weather has to be made up in different areas. If that means improving our facilities to set us apart then so be it. You have to make the opportunity of playing at UND greater than some of the other schools we will compete against or the recruits we need will never come.