Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[star2city]

What's funny is the way the 4 year old is acting is the same way that most posters on this board have been acting. Throwing a temper tantrum and crying in the corner when you don't get your way.

By your own emotional slant on "logic", aren't you responsible for this child's pain? Your desires have offended him. You caused him pain. Isn't possible that you are scarring him for life, and yet you don't give a damn?

That's the same line of twisted reasoning that anti-nickname forces have used for years: that emotional reasoning is O.K. by you when used for your purposes.

[Sioux2007]

Does SIOUXPR not like the Sioux nickname? Why does SIOUXPR care that we are upset about our schools nickname with over 80 years of tradtion? I don't get it!!!

[GeauxSioux]

Repercussions of a nickname

Gerhard Krauthammer, general manager of the New Jersey Jumping Jews of the Eastern Basketball Association, expressed his concern in a press release last week:

[ScottM]

Rather than lecturing, shouldn't you be leading the way by changing your login name and avatar to not include the word "Sioux" and the old, geometric Indan head logo?

Oh there you go, trotting out the old hypocrisy card again.

[Shawn-O]

Repercussions of a nickname

Nice piece.

Gerhard Krauthammer, general manager of the New Jersey Jumping Jews of the Eastern Basketball Association, expressed his concern in a press release last week

I did a double take at this, I thought The Onion was up to something again.

[Siouxdio Apartment]

I am a Fighting Sioux fan ... and support the use of the name ... but understanding all the aspects of the issue continues to be difficult for me. I know that I have always thought of the use of the Sioux name in a manner similar to that Tarek Howard highlighted in his recent opinion letter: "traits of courage, freedom and commitment describe American Indians in ancient times. I couldn

[star2city]

http://www.dl-online.com/event/article/id/.../group/Opinion/

However, my opinion doesn't seem to stand up well against the article referenced above.

The analogies are not proper. First off, Jew refers to someone of a faith and has unfortunately been derogatory. If a name like Hebrews or true tribal names like Israelite, Levite, Judah, Ephraim, etc were used, no one would object. Sioux does not refer to a faith, but a tribe.

[Chewey]

I am a Fighting Sioux fan ... and support the use of the name ... but understanding all the aspects of the issue continues to be difficult for me. I know that I have always thought of the use of the Sioux name in a manner similar to that Tarek Howard highlighted in his recent opinion letter: "traits of courage, freedom and commitment describe American Indians in ancient times. I couldn

[redwing77]

The analogies are not proper. First off, Jew refers to someone of a faith and has unfortunately been derogatory. If a name like Hebrews or true tribal names like Israelite, Levite, Judah, Ephraim, etc were used, no one would object. Sioux does not refer to a faith, but a tribe.

Ummm

You're assuming that the term "Jew" is derogatory.

In truth, it depends upon how you use the term.

If you say the term "Jew" with reference to this basketball team, it's hilarious and not at all derogatory.

If you say the term in a manner such as this:

"Don't Jew me like that."

Ok, THAT is derogatory.

I'm a Jew. I don't see that being derogatory at all.

And as for the "Jumping Jews" I want a Tshirt!

[Fetch]

Fighting Sioux Hockey is almost religion to me

[Siouxdio Apartment]

Fighting Sioux Hockey is almost religion to me

I can relate! I enjoy this board, and the debates and discussions. The various points of view, and the emotion behind them--all have educational aspects for me. Thanks to you all -- except for that twin cities buffalo guy!

[Siouxdio Apartment]

Threatening to withold donations to UND for athletics or academics is immature and also shows a lack of vision. It will hurt all athletic programs, including hockey, the academic programs and the University as a whole. Why would you punish your teams based on something they did not initiate? No matter what one thinks they know from the safety of their home or bar stool, blaming UND officials or the state board does no one any good. If that is what one must do to feel better, God help you get through life. When our University and our atheltic teams need us to do what we can do to help our teams be successful you are saying you will let those kids and the teams down. We can't count on you. I am glad I never had to go t war with some of you folks.

....

The worlds "best college hockey fans" or for that matter "best college athletic team" fans will not let their teams down over this issue. If we withhold one penny of support for UND for athletics, academics or any other worthy cause related to UND over this issue it is a mistake. It is not going to change who our University President is nor should it. Let those who can affect change do their jobs. Write letters to the Tribes, the politicians, the SBoHE, or UND officials, if you wish, but don't be a jerk and don't undermine what those who are trying to do to save this and do not fail our teams and athletes when they need us most.

I like your posts, and your presentations ... like others have said, you put solid information together and present it well. I am on the same page with many of your comments, except on the withholding donation comments. Your relationship to the university is obviously different than mine--yours appears to be closer, and assuming that is true, I understand your viewpoint--support the athletes, students, and programs no matter what. I, on the other hand, do not view it as my responsibility to support the school and/or the athletes. I see it as my responsibility to contribute what I can to improve my community, but I have many avenues in which to do so. I think the school, along with a number of other honorable charitable organizations, have to compete for the limited amount of resources I have available to donate. In this competition, I expect these organizations to present their goals/objectives/performance to potential donors; and in the case of UND and the name, they have not done that to my satisfaction.

In my opinion, the University leadership was primarily silent or neutral. Now, that may be the strategy they chose intentionally--a strategy that appeals to those that oppose the name, and to those that don't care one way or the other, and to other groups/alumni/students/donors; and perhaps that is the strategy they chose because it met the demographics they wanted to reach. In my opinion, I wanted to see them lead the effort instead of letting the effort lead them. Because their strategic communication plan didn't demonstrate that leadership over the past couple years, I feel it is my right to allocate my limited resources to a charitable purpose that has met my expectations. I won't "threaten," I will just make my decision and move on. I don't see that as childish, and I don't think that makes me a jerk. I haven't made my final decision, but I expect this issue will affect my donations over the next few years (a relative recently suffered from ALS and another from MS, and I'm leaning that direction), and then I'll likely re-evaluate.

You say "I'm glad I never had to go to war with you people," ... from my recent experience in Afghanistan and other locales in SW Asia, I don't think our difference of opinion on donating to UND would have stopped us from relying on/looking out for each other in that type of situation. Just my thoughts ...

[mksioux]

Repercussions of a nickname

Nice piece.

Sure...if Mr. Bergson is a junior high student and this was an extra credit project. But the analogy is terribly flawed as others have mentioned. But even given the inherent flaw in the analogy, if you could have a referendum of all the Jewish people in New Jersey and they wanted to retain that name for their basketball team, I'd see nothing wrong with it. But apparently Mr. Bergeson knows better than the people at Spirit Lake. Perhaps he thinks they are too stupid to realize that the name should offend them. He is entitled to his elitist opinion, as many before him have held. However, I have respect for the Sioux people that have chosen not to travel down the victim road and do not choose to find an offense where none is intended.

[ScottM]

Fighting Sioux Hockey is almost religion to me

I hear ya. I've uttered "Oh God!" or "Goddammit!" many times during Sioux games.

[Goon]

I hear ya. I've uttered "Oh God!" or "Goddammit!" many times during Sioux games.

I am guilty as well.

[Blackheart]

In my opinion, the University leadership was primarily silent or neutral. Now, that may be the strategy they chose intentionally--a strategy that appeals to those that oppose the name, and to those that don't care one way or the other, and to other groups/alumni/students/donors; and perhaps that is the strategy they chose because it met the demographics they wanted to reach. In my opinion, I wanted to see them lead the effort instead of letting the effort lead them.

Can I get an Amen? Testify!

[Chewey]

Ummm

You're assuming that the term "Jew" is derogatory.

In truth, it depends upon how you use the term.

If you say the term "Jew" with reference to this basketball team, it's hilarious and not at all derogatory.

If you say the term in a manner such as this:

"Don't Jew me like that."

Ok, THAT is derogatory.

I'm a Jew. I don't see that being derogatory at all.

And as for the "Jumping Jews" I want a Tshirt!

I want a T-Shirt, too. It's pretty simple: Don't Jews who play sports have to jump? What can possibly be wrong with "Jumping Jews"? I like the team name for one school in New York (I forget the name) - The Maccabees.

[petey23]

[krangodance]

The SBoHE can add whatever extra stipulations it feels are appropriate. If the SBoHE says that both tribes need to sign 30 year contracts, then they sign the contracts or the deal's off.

thank you, professor obvious.

[krangodance]

One of the better, pro-Summit arguments I've seen in a while (i don't pay much attention to this thread). UND will never compete at the same level as Duke or North Carolina, but maybe down the road we could be a semi regular showing in the tournament. Maybe, even steal a game in the tournament every once and a while.

well, with those lofty goals, no wonder we're in a hurry to retire the name. just imagine, we could someday say we had a team participate in the first round of an ncaa tournament. oh wait, we've already won national championships. nevermind. name's still worth more.

[krangodance]

But the hockey fans claim that the nickname and "80 years of tradition" are being thrown away just so that basketball can get into the Summit.

It's a worthless, emotionally based argument, but it's what's being parroted at the hockey watercoolers.

well, hockey fans and native americans. but you don't care about their opinion, right?

[krangodance]

Hey there PL!

I knew it was you by the spot on grammar "His one and only internet is to stir the post", classic.

ha! making fun of somebody's grammar on a message board? didn't you know that's the number one no-no in the forum rule book. by law, you can't post for one year.

see ya next year.

[krangodance]

Ummm

You're assuming that the term "Jew" is derogatory.

In truth, it depends upon how you use the term.

If you say the term "Jew" with reference to this basketball team, it's hilarious and not at all derogatory.

If you say the term in a manner such as this:

"Don't Jew me like that."

Ok, THAT is derogatory.

I'm a Jew. I don't see that being derogatory at all.

And as for the "Jumping Jews" I want a Tshirt!

my wife is jewish. she doesn't understand why some think the term "jew" is offensive since that is how you refer to people who are jewish. if you're using it in a context that is meant to be demeening, then obviously the context is inappropriate. the word itself, though, is not.

to say that somebody who is jewish is a jew is the same as saying that somebody who is british is a brit or somebody who is turkish is a turk. i realize that in those examples i'm using nationality and being jewish isn't an attribute of nationality, but you could be an american of spanish descent and say you're a spainaird.

just as with the sioux nickname, it's not the members of that group who are assigning negative connotations to the word, but rather those who are confused and believe that there is something negative associated with the word; a fact which is offensive to members of that group.

my wife certainly doesn't think there's anything wrong with being a jew. members of spirit lake and standing rock don't think there's anything wrong with being sioux. it's the same pretentious people who think they're qualified to speak for these minority groups, even though they don't belong to those groups, who would have us believe those words are "bad".

it really is shameful that people will take a whole group of people and decide for them that names and icons that represent that group are abusive. why not let them decide for themselves if something paying homage to them is being used in poor taste? and if it is, let them decide how such a thing should be changed as to reach its goal of paying homage. if they'd rather get rid of it all together, then i'd support that. i certainly don't want to associate myself with something a love and respect so much if those who are meant to be honored are offended.

i feel like i'm in opposite land on this board sometimes. i support the sioux name and logo as long as the sioux support it. yet those on this board who don't think native americans should be able to decide for themselves how to feel are telling me, and others like me, that we're the ones who are disrespecting native americans.

it's like me saying that women shouldn't have a voice in roe vs wade and then calling those who think women should be the primary voice in that debate sexist.

it's all backwards and the worst part is i know there's no getting through to these pig-headed folks and yet i continue to try to use logic to get them to see the light. i'm like some kind of idiot who does the same thing over and over and expects different results. i don't know, maybe i actually do get through to some of those people, or at least hope i will some day. that's what i'll have to accept because saying nothing just forces me to stew in the illogical arguements presented to the contrary.

[yababy8]

my wife is jewish. she doesn't understand why some think the term "jew" is offensive since that is how you refer to people who are jewish. if you're using it in a context that is meant to be demeening, then obviously the context is inappropriate. the word itself, though, is not.

to say that somebody who is jewish is a jew is the same as saying that somebody who is british is a brit or somebody who is turkish is a turk. i realize that in those examples i'm using nationality and being jewish isn't an attribute of nationality, but you could be an american of spanish descent and say you're a spainaird.

just as with the sioux nickname, it's not the members of that group who are assigning negative connotations to the word, but rather those who are confused and believe that there is something negative associated with the word; a fact which is offensive to members of that group.

my wife certainly doesn't think there's anything wrong with being a jew. members of spirit lake and standing rock don't think there's anything wrong with being sioux. it's the same pretentious people who think they're qualified to speak for these minority groups, even though they don't belong to those groups, who would have us believe those words are "bad".

it really is shameful that people will take a whole group of people and decide for them that names and icons that represent that group are abusive. why not let them decide for themselves if something paying homage to them is being used in poor taste? and if it is, let them decide how such a thing should be changed as to reach its goal of paying homage. if they'd rather get rid of it all together, then i'd support that. i certainly don't want to associate myself with something a love and respect so much if those who are meant to be honored are offended.

i feel like i'm in opposite land on this board sometimes. i support the sioux name and logo as long as the sioux support it. yet those on this board who don't think native americans should be able to decide for themselves how to feel are telling me, and others like me, that we're the ones who are disrespecting native americans.

it's like me saying that women shouldn't have a voice in roe vs wade and then calling those who think women should be the primary voice in that debate sexist.

it's all backwards and the worst part is i know there's no getting through to these pig-headed folks and yet i continue to try to use logic to get them to see the light. i'm like some kind of idiot who does the same thing over and over and expects different results. i don't know, maybe i actually do get through to some of those people, or at least hope i will some day. that's what i'll have to accept because saying nothing just forces me to stew in the illogical arguements presented to the contrary.

Maybe we could send an email to the ACLU and see if they could help advocate for the majority of Sioux to be heard and address the fact that this entire debacle is based on a discriminatory NCAA mandate.

[krangodance]

Maybe we could send an email to the ACLU and see if they could help advocate for the majority of Sioux to be heard and address the fact that this entire debacle is based on a discriminatory NCAA mandate.

ha. yeah, that could make for an interesting twist, huh? at this point, i think it will play out as it should. if standing rock gets a vote put together in time, their decision will be honored (i say their decision without including the decision of spirit lake since both tribes need to approve and spirit lake already approved. therefore, it's all on the standing rock decision. i don't mean to undermine the decision already made at spirit lake). if standing rock doesn't get a vote put together before the november deadline, then the name will be retired.

it seems like everything is going in the right direction at this time and i'm all for getting rid of the name if standing rock either votes to retire or doesn't vote at all.