2022 Football Season

[The Sicatoka]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

... I do not limit by opinion of organizations to whether or not they’ve filed using a 990. 

That's good, because Altru Health Systems and the Altru Health Foundation and Altru Alliance are non-profit 990 filers and you and I may need them one day. 

[Irish]

6 hours ago, iramurphy said:

I will let you and the other folks who are beating this to death on some facts. First of all, you all have some valid points and valid concerns. Why you all seem to have a need to continue to throw these comments into most every thread says more about the people posting than it does about the coaches and programs. Positive change not only in sports but in successful organizations is not driven by those whose primary contributions are firing someone and complaining. There are a number of people working to move our programs forward but that group doesn’t include those with this attitude and it won’t. It is complicated because the discussions include not only FB but other sports and always what is best for UND and how it can be done successfully and to be able to sustain that success over time. It includes some who also want to bring back swimming, women’s hockey, baseball and so it’s complicated.So I guess if it makes you folks feel better, feel free to continue to the same negative rhetoric. The difference makers have no time for that nonsense, because seldom,  if ever, is there anything that would contribute to making the necessary positive change to move all programs forward.  Some of us had to learn that by experience and regret the time wasted with the shortsighted negative thinking. 

As usual you make your points well - I am glad that there is a group like you described who are trying to advance UND athletics.  I think this fan board gets negative because 1 - It's a fan board and 2 - many feel absolutely left out and in the dark about anything that is going on behind the scenes - with little or no info from our AD.  All we see is what's happening on the field or in the gym.  Most of us are supporting Athletics as much as we can but cannot afford a seat at the table.  Football gets the brunt of this because many are passionate about the sport.  You have to admit it has been a frustrating 14+ years.  I'm glad your group is all beer and skittles and sunshine but you need at least one realistic voice.  If it supported extending Bubba and is discussing bringing back Women's Hockey then I'm not so sure it is the voice of reason (and in the latter case flogging a dead horse).  The push for upgraded facilities has been a big positive.  You seem to navigate both worlds well - please let your group know that there is a strong passion for winning programs here and many feel like a little more info or input would go a long way.  

[sioux24/7]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:21 PM, SIOUXFAN97 said:

https://goyotes.com/sports/football/roster/gerrit-poncius/11964

https://gobison.com/sports/football/roster/hunter-poncius/17984

their dad played at UND...whiffed on both of these guys?  assuming we offered?

This must be the dad I talked to in Vermillion last year. He wasn’t a fan of Bubba. 

[Sioux>Bison]

10 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Why would NDSU funding buy out Bubba’s contract? And UND does have money, just heavily situated in hockey.  

And Bubba has been extended twice now despite losing seasons; the notion that “it’s happened now so we have to deal with it” is certainly not a solution, but rather an excuse. 

You’re right in that UND definitely does need to raise more money for football, however. 
 

Exactly our fanbase must not have any fans with high expectations…… and with deep pockets……. 
 

get used to seeing Bubba until his contract expires, any complaints calling for him to be fired before that time just hurts the program because we all know we don’t have the $$$$ to do it!

[The Sicatoka]

The commercial the B1G is running on BTN (for the B1G championship game at Lucas) includes … a UND highlight!
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/2ZQp/2022-big-ten-football-championship-indianapolis-lucas-oil-stadium 

 

Of course it’s Tommy getting sacked at Nebraska … 

[Mama Sue]

About the 990 status: What it obligates the REA to do is everything for a “public benefit.” I would have to look at their filed AOI (Articles of Incorporation) to see the wording. The purpose is/should be written very flexible. A private group/individual can not have tangible benefits.

We added “while generally promoting the arts” to one non profit I helped start.  So with the REA, benefit UND athletics could be interpreted as anything to put more athletes on the field/ice/court or spectators in the seats. And the IRS does watch plus the state. Even in small communities people watch and report. And I am sure Ralph had 100 Philadelphia lawyers set this up (or whomever did). My comments are really irrelevant.

[iramurphy]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

As usual you make your points well - I am glad that there is a group like you described who are trying to advance UND athletics.  I think this fan board gets negative because 1 - It's a fan board and 2 - many feel absolutely left out and in the dark about anything that is going on behind the scenes - with little or no info from our AD.  All we see is what's happening on the field or in the gym.  Most of us are supporting Athletics as much as we can but cannot afford a seat at the table.  Football gets the brunt of this because many are passionate about the sport.  You have to admit it has been a frustrating 14+ years.  I'm glad your group is all beer and skittles and sunshine but you need at least one realistic voice.  If it supported extending Bubba and is discussing bringing back Women's Hockey then I'm not so sure it is the voice of reason (and in the latter case flogging a dead horse).  The push for upgraded facilities has been a big positive.  You seem to navigate both worlds well - please let your group know that there is a strong passion for winning programs here and many feel like a little more info or input would go a long way.  

Don’t think the folks trying to move things forward is “ all beer, skittles and sunshine”.  Far from it. Some understand what it takes to turn programs around, resurrect businesses, and even how we can lose our edge.

Some, and I am one of them, see no purpose in calling for coaching change publicly until the change is going to be made. Public calls for coaching change usually has an adverse effect on recruiting and creates negative vibes on the team and staff. We all have the same goal and that is championship FB as well as tourney appearances and conference championships in all sports. Obviously there are those who feel otherwise. Bringing back other sports isn’t fiscally feasible without a designated sugar daddy right now, but it would be a mistake not to listen to all stakeholders to see what they bring to the table. I think we will see improvement in MBB, WBB this year. We have made big strides in VB. We seem to be making strides in FB but need to get better each week. We have hockey where it needs to be financially. Now we need to get our other sports there too. It isn’t easy. 

[UND1983]

1 hour ago, sioux24/7 said:

This must be the dad I talked to in Vermillion last year. He wasn’t a fan of Bubba. 

Lmfao..ok.

[sioux24/7]

1 minute ago, UND1983 said:

Lmfao..ok.

Ok? I like Bubba. Just saying he complained to me. 

[UND1983]

4 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

Ok? I like Bubba. Just saying he complained to me. 

Referring to his response. Bubba isn't why his kids didn't come to UND.  

[sioux24/7]

1 minute ago, UND1983 said:

Referring to his response. Bubba isn't why his kids didn't come to UND.  

Oh gotcha yeah I figured he held a bit of a grudge because of that but yeah he came up to me and started complaining. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Don’t think the folks trying to move things forward is “ all beer, skittles and sunshine”.  Far from it. Some understand what it takes to turn programs around, resurrect businesses, and even how we can lose our edge.

Some, and I am one of them, see no purpose in calling for coaching change publicly until the change is going to be made. Public calls for coaching change usually has an adverse effect on recruiting and creates negative vibes on the team and staff. We all have the same goal and that is championship FB as well as tourney appearances and conference championships in all sports. Obviously there are those who feel otherwise. Bringing back other sports isn’t fiscally feasible without a designated sugar daddy right now, but it would be a mistake not to listen to all stakeholders to see what they bring to the table. I think we will see improvement in MBB, WBB this year. We have made big strides in VB. We seem to be making strides in FB but need to get better each week. We have hockey where it needs to be financially. Now we need to get our other sports there too. It isn’t easy. 

Where is the quickest, easiest place to find UND athletic budget broken down by sport?   There is a bit of a cart/horse aspect to this too.  This weekend and the game vs USD, what will the potential lost revenue be with the stadium half full and half the concessions stands operating?

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 hours ago, sioux24/7 said:

This must be the dad I talked to in Vermillion last year. He wasn’t a fan of Bubba. 

nope....just poking around on ndac's o lineman and saw the one and then the link to his bro at sodak

[Irish]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Don’t think the folks trying to move things forward is “ all beer, skittles and sunshine”.  Far from it. Some understand what it takes to turn programs around, resurrect businesses, and even how we can lose our edge.

Some, and I am one of them, see no purpose in calling for coaching change publicly until the change is going to be made. Public calls for coaching change usually has an adverse effect on recruiting and creates negative vibes on the team and staff. We all have the same goal and that is championship FB as well as tourney appearances and conference championships in all sports. Obviously there are those who feel otherwise. Bringing back other sports isn’t fiscally feasible without a designated sugar daddy right now, but it would be a mistake not to listen to all stakeholders to see what they bring to the table. I think we will see improvement in MBB, WBB this year. We have made big strides in VB. We seem to be making strides in FB but need to get better each week. We have hockey where it needs to be financially. Now we need to get our other sports there too. It isn’t easy. 

I recognize that you are working hard and have hard work to do as almost every program bottomed out recently and many are now on the upswing.  I Hear what you are saying about calling for a coaching change.  However, after an extremely frustrating 5-6 season last year - complete with many poor coaching decisions here is all fans got from the Athletic Department - we are extending Bubba even though his contract is not up and by the way - hardcore fans can no longer stand and cheer on the team from the walkways. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

8 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

But it opens them wide to audit and loss of tax exempt status. So they best live to the words in such a manner that a reasonable person could recognize it. 

Again, if there's a better way, please do define it. 

The better way to do it would be to not have a separate entity from UND athletics receive over 50% of all ticket revenue and also be able to make independent decisions despite recommendation from UND athletics. The fact REA, inc. files as tax exempt is sort of irrelevant to the issue I initially highlighted.  

REA is primarily used for hockey, but the agreement allows REA to take over 50% of all UND athletics ticket revenue. The discordance there is propagating the ongoing imbalance with UND athletics. I get the national football versus basketball argument, but the niche hockey vs football argument is one that UND will continually find themselves losing. But UND for the past 20 years has had their hands tied; they now have no choice but to emphasize hockey at a rate that hurts football, basketball. Hell, it led to baseball being cut. 

Internally is this an issue? Maybe not, because there are several local traditionalists who are beyond fine with the status quo. But externally, UND athletics as a whole is a laughing stock. Has been since going DI in 2008. Especially compared to NDSU, regionally speaking. UND hockey is in tip top shape, sure, but since going DI, UND football has been overshadowed big-time by regional rival NDSU; UND M basketball has made it to one national tournament whereas NDSU has made it to several; and UND cut M baseball. UND women’s basketball and volleyball has had mixed success. 
 

In summary, I don’t think having a separate entity from UND athletics operating the REA is as advantageous as the tax exempt status alludes to. In fact, it further extends the disproportionate situation at UND. UND athletics has lost autonomy in its large scale decision making. To some, unfortunately, and sadly, that’s how they like it. Also, most athletic department hires are entirely complicit with the status quo. No attempt to buck the trend or right the ship, as they say. 

[Mama Sue]

UND FB FAN…..very, very good perspective…blending public and private money is always a problem….I can think of several local examples….setting the joint powers agreement (or whatever) is key….what are the long term implications? A former administrator always said,”Don’t ask any questions. Don’t sign anything. It will get taken care of.”

lots of things I did not know until I purchased a ticket through REA (why?).

[The Sicatoka]

8 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

UND athletics has lost autonomy in its large scale decision making. 

Aren't you one who doesn't trust any decision by the AD regarding hiring and firing?

And then you want to give full autonomy to that AD over revenues and budgets as well? 

You believe UND should be doing things just like NDSU is the way you sound. Based on this pattern if we were at Duke you'd be railing BB was overemphasized to the detriment of FB. At Johns Hopkins you'd be calling out lacrosse as harming FB. 

 

[The Sicatoka]

UND football spending is top third of MVFC football spending the last five years. 
https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/91ae0812 

Where UND may lag, but is still mid-pack is football coaching salaries. 
https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/21705f66 

 

*I've included Murray State in the dataset. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

You believe UND should be doing things just like NDSU is the way you sound. 

Hard to argue with NDSU’s success, but there system is certainly still fraught with concerns and controversy. Look no further than their recent presidency change. 
 

All in all, I do think having the athletic department and AD (who yes, I have some concerns with) make the final decisions is what is best for all of UND athletics. REA, Inc. is not what is best for UND athletics as a whole; quite frankly, it’s a private venture heavily emphasized towards hockey and that hurts other sports - football and basketball - to a degree. Also, for example, if UND would like to place a Fighting Hawks logo on the ice or even just for the basketball/volleyball teams on center court in the Betty, what happens? It gets declined due to selfish private decisions.

Lastly, hard to argue that some of the AD’s questionable decisions regarding budgeting and staffing have not been heavily influenced by the private ventures of REA.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

UND football spending is top third of MVFC football spending the last five years. 
https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/91ae0812 

Where UND may lag, but is still mid-pack is football coaching salaries. 
https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/21705f66 

 

*I've included Murray State in the dataset. 

Not surprising to anyone familiar with UND football in the context of regional powers (SDSU, NDSU). But thank you for providing the information here. 
 

Top third (budget) and mid-pack (salary) just within conference does not scream excellence. In fact, I’d argue it projects more average than anything else. Not surprisingly, those are the mean results of UND’s football success, also. Money talks in this day and age of college athletics. UND and REA, inc. push for it to talk for hockey, leaving other sports at a disadvantage, the degree of which can be further argued. 
 

Really, this comes down to philosophy. Do you think UND’s athletic success and regional popularity will be both sustainable and, more importantly, capable of growth by emphasizing college hockey and leaving other programs at average level funding? 

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

... but there system is certainly not fraught with concerns and controversy. Look no further than their recent presidency change. 

Seriously?
Have you missed the news this week? 
Bresciani left Cook a hot steaming turd sandwich.

You say "not fraught with concerns and controversy".
Even ... < gasp > ... NDSU Football is under budget review. 

I say there's "concerns and controversy" at NDSU when the NDSU Engineering school had $942,000.00 lopped from their budget* by the provost yesterday. Their Pharm school class is half the size of just a few years ago. And the ugly hits are still coming. 

 

*it's good to know people who know people

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Top third (budget) and mid-pack (salary) just within conference does not scream excellence.

When the top of your conference is the top of the country? 

[The Sicatoka]

17 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Do you think UND’s athletic success and regional popularity will be both sustainable and, more importantly, capable of growth by emphasizing college hockey and leaving other programs at average level funding? 

Given UND Hockey has been the region's exception since the late 1970s, and both NDSU and SDSU had declining enrollment this fall*, I'd go with what's worked. 

 

Earl Strinden (RIP) set up the UND Alumni Association and Foundation. Look at the good things that has done. Earl was part of setting up the REA fiscal organizations. I do not believe he did that in a manner to harm UND. (Words I never thought I'd type follow, because Earl besides being a UND backer was a politician) ---  I trust what Earl Strinden left behind. 

 

*UND grew slightly. 

[Kab]

When UND was cutting expenses and ndsu wasn’t people thought brescani must be a genius and the Fargo GOBC was singing  his praises.

now we know he was sort of a crooked old bastard 

the governor better not come up with some shenanigans to get ndsu money some how 

[Mama Sue]

30 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Seriously?
Have you missed the news this week? 
Bresciani left Cook a hot steaming turd sandwich.

You say "not fraught with concerns and controversy".
Even ... < gasp > ... NDSU Football is under budget review. 

I say there's "concerns and controversy" at NDSU when the NDSU Engineering school had $942,000.00 lopped from their budget* by the provost yesterday. Their Pharm school class is half the size of just a few years ago. And the ugly hits are still coming. 

 

*it's good to know people who know people

I read that this week and posted somewhere on this forum (?where) about their $10M+ shortfall due to declining enrollment. We will all feel the pinch…even (God forbid) our scared 18 hole golf course. Historically, our city has used a “drink, drive, safely with the lights on” for projects. I think it will be worse before it is better for all of us.