Illinois State @ UND 11/13/21

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

No

I can agree that Tommy can improve the running aspect of his game.  I think he is really good and has a higher ceiling than where he currently is, and I think he can learn from this season and run more.  Are you in agreement there, or do you think one of the backups is a better option at this point?  I just don't think Tommy is getting enough credit for his accuracy, and even though so many of the passes are short yardage throws, I don't think a guy like Quincy can both complete those throws at that high of a completion percentage while taking as few sacks as Tommy.  Quincy hasn't shown that he has much ability at all to make the short throws consistently, imo. 

3 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Do you remember the ISU TD pass?  Was he open because he was a burner and just had that knack for getting open?   The offense stinks this fall, my hope is it is Danny compensating for personnel issues and not just the way it will be.

 

Is this the TD you're referring to? 

 

[nodak651]

This is the type of reception some of you don't give Tommy enough credit for.

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

30 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I can agree that Tommy can improve the running aspect of his game.  I think he is really good and has a higher ceiling than where he currently is, and I think he can learn from this season and run more.  Are you in agreement there, or do you think one of the backups is a better option at this point?  I just don't think Tommy is getting enough credit for his accuracy, and even though so many of the passes are short yardage throws, I don't think a guy like Quincy can both complete those throws at that high of a completion percentage while taking as few sacks as Tommy.  Quincy hasn't shown that he has much ability at all to make the short throws consistently, imo. 

 

Schuster definitely can improve, and timely running is an obvious area. Other limitations  are largely tangible and hard to improve on, like arm strength and speed. With all that said, Schuster is so-so. He’s certainly not the source of all of UND’s problems but he doesn’t scare opposing defenses either, in my opinion. Perhaps one should poll opposing defensive coordinators to get their actual view, but just by hunch.  He was voted all conference in spring 2021, but definitely not getting those honors in fall 2021 (this season)
 

As for back ups, Freund clearly does not think there is one better than Schuster right now, but hopefully Feeney develops into that. I honestly don’t see all three QBs (Schuster, Feeney, Vaughn) splitting time moving forward, so simple clarity with that position group must develop. You need an alpha at that position, and I know some on here rationalize the current situation by just saying Vaughn is the “wildcat QB” and not a true second QB, but I still don’t buy that. Good to great QBs are not routinely taken out in critical situations for the “wildcat QB”, in my opinion, unless there are obvious deficiencies with the starter. Red zone and short yardage is tough for UND given Schuster’s running inability, thus the substitutions to Vaughn in those scenarios.

[Midwestern Hawk]

35 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I can agree that Tommy can improve the running aspect of his game.  I think he is really good and has a higher ceiling than where he currently is, and I think he can learn from this season and run more.  Are you in agreement there, or do you think one of the backups is a better option at this point?  I just don't think Tommy is getting enough credit for his accuracy, and even though so many of the passes are short yardage throws, I don't think a guy like Quincy can both complete those throws at that high of a completion percentage while taking as few sacks as Tommy.  Quincy hasn't shown that he has much ability at all to make the short throws consistently, imo. 

Is this the TD you're referring to? 

 

Yes a TE who was able to achieve separation due to the route design.

[Midwestern Hawk]

13 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Schuster definitely can improve, and timely running is an obvious area. Other limitations  are largely tangible and hard to improve on, like arm strength and speed. With all that said, Schuster is so-so. He’s certainly not the source of all of UND’s problems but he doesn’t scare opposing defenses either, in my opinion. Perhaps one should poll opposing defensive coordinators to get their actual view, but just by hunch.  He was voted all conference in spring 2021, but definitely not getting those honors in fall 2021 (this season)
 

As for back ups, Freund clearly does not think there is one better than Schuster right now, but hopefully Feeney develops into that. I honestly don’t see all three QBs (Schuster, Feeney, Vaughn) splitting time moving forward, so simple clarity with that position group must develop. You need an alpha at that position, and I know some on here rationalize the current situation by just saying Vaughn is the “wildcat QB” and not a true second QB, but I still don’t buy that. Good to great QBs are not routinely taken out in critical situations for the “wildcat QB”, in my opinion, unless there are obvious deficiencies with the starter. Red zone and short yardage is tough for UND given Schuster’s running inability, thus the substitutions to Vaughn in those scenarios.

The platooning of QB's needs to stop, its just a symptom of offensive problems.  We have 18 TD passes this season...

Tommy with 12, Vaughn with 3, Boltmann with 2, and Richter with 1.  It seems as the season wore on the QB platooning became a liability instead of an asset.  Did Danny really think the only way the winning TD pass against ISU would be open was with Q in the game?  If so, that is an entire subset of challenges moving forward.

 

I hate being so negative, but the defense will likely have some significant rebuilding next season and I can't see the offense being much better.  If the game management is the same, it will not leave us very happy a year from now.

[The Sicatoka]

12 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Good to great QBs are not routinely taken out in critical situations for the “wildcat QB”, in my opinion, unless there are obvious deficiencies with the starter. 

2020, New Orleans Saints, that hack #9 would get pulled for wildcat QB #7. 

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Schuster definitely can improve, and timely running is an obvious area. Other limitations  are largely tangible and hard to improve on, like arm strength and speed. With all that said, Schuster is so-so. He’s certainly not the source of all of UND’s problems but he doesn’t scare opposing defenses either, in my opinion. Perhaps one should poll opposing defensive coordinators to get their actual view, but just by hunch.  He was voted all conference in spring 2021, but definitely not getting those honors in fall 2021 (this season)
 

As for back ups, Freund clearly does not think there is one better than Schuster right now, but hopefully Feeney develops into that. I honestly don’t see all three QBs (Schuster, Feeney, Vaughn) splitting time moving forward, so simple clarity with that position group must develop. You need an alpha at that position, and I know some on here rationalize the current situation by just saying Vaughn is the “wildcat QB” and not a true second QB, but I still don’t buy that. Good to great QBs are not routinely taken out in critical situations for the “wildcat QB”, in my opinion, unless there are obvious deficiencies with the starter. Red zone and short yardage is tough for UND given Schuster’s running inability, thus the substitutions to Vaughn in those scenarios.

I kind of think this is more of an inditement on the offensive line, but also partly because it's Danny's style - to throw as many looks out there as possible.  Our offense has good yards per carry numbers, but our third down % and red zone offense is terrible, and I think that's because our offense routinely gets stuffed when we try to run the ball between the tackles when the defense is expecting it.  I think that's why Danny ran the play where Quincy flipped the ball over to Otis on that 3rd down vs ISU, where Otis nearly made an amazing play after breaking the tackle way behind the line of scrimmage.  Danny needs a big QB for short yardage situations because the offense can't make any holes.  How many times has our offense been stuffed when we try to run up the middle in the red zone or on 3rd or 4th and short?  We have a terrible 3rd down conversion percentage because we can't run the ball in short yardage situations.  The offense is routinely in short yardage situations on third down, but we can't convert, and it's often when Quincy is in.  We would probably be better off just leaving Tommy in and throwing the ball, as he's completing 2/3rds of his passes.  With a good O-line, UND converts that 4th down vs NDSU.  

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

The platooning of QB's needs to stop, its just a symptom of offensive problems.  We have 18 TD passes this season...

Tommy with 12, Vaughn with 3, Boltmann with 2, and Richter with 1.  It seems as the season wore on the QB platooning became a liability instead of an asset.  Did Danny really think the only way the winning TD pass against ISU would be open was with Q in the game?  If so, that is an entire subset of challenges moving forward.

 

I hate being so negative, but the defense will likely have some significant rebuilding next season and I can't see the offense being much better.  If the game management is the same, it will not leave us very happy a year from now.

We agree on something!  As for next year, despite losing our LT (most likely) I think both of the lines will be stronger and more experienced overall.  That will make a huge difference.  We have some young studs at inside linebacker and #44 already said that he will be coming back.  Maag would be a big loss on offense but he has had a bad hamstring all year and hasn't done much.  I think we will be better.  And who knows, maybe Trey can be good enough to beat out Tommy!  If he can do that, we would have one of the best QB's in the country I'd think.

I'd be fine with Boltman taking Quincy's spot at QB though, but with less usage, IF Danny will insist on playing two QB's.  Quincy is just not fast enough to use consistently as a runner, and Danny hasn't had him throw enough to make defenses back off from completely stacking the box when he is in, which is way too often.  With how few times Quincy has thrown the ball, I'm not sure why they ever take Tommy out of the game to have Quincy hand the ball off to a running back - why tip off the defense if you are going to hand the ball off?  If Danny is going to insist on playing a second QB, Boltman has at least shown that he can consistently gain huge chunk plays on the ground when he was in for designed QB runs - run the option with him and one of the speedy back up running backs maybe - with our big receivers, I think this could be an awesome change of pace package.

[Midwestern Hawk]

13 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

We agree on something!  As for next year, I think both of the lines will be stronger and more experienced overall.  That will make a huge difference.  We have some young studs at inside linebacker and #44 already said that he will be coming back.  Maag would be a big loss on offense but he has had a bad hamstring all year and hasn't done much.  I think we will be better.  And who knows, maybe Trey can be good enough to beat out Tommy!  If he can do that, we would have one of the best QB's in the country I'd think.

Good to agree! 

DL should be better, OL will be missing 40% of the starters.  On defense, #44 is back but d will be missing Holm, Canady, Seguin, Turner, Galvin, Shannon, and possibly Larson and Morrison.  Not sure on the last 2.  Also Peterson the punter will be gone as will the long snapper.  

[geaux_sioux]

44 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Yes a TE who was able to achieve separation due to the route design.

Or, maybe, just maybe, it was a blown coverage.

[Shawn-O]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

Danny hasn't done Tommy any favors 10 games into the season. 

You're saying a swing pass to Belquist on 3rd and medium and asking him to break at least one tackle for a first down isn't ideal play calling?    These types of 3rd down calls seem to be happening repeatedly.   

[Midwestern Hawk]

4 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Or, maybe, just maybe, it was a blown coverage.

Good design then, wouldn't you agree?

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Good to agree! 

DL should be better, OL will be missing 40% of the starters.  On defense, #44 is back but d will be missing Holm, Canady, Seguin, Turner, Galvin, and possibly Larson and Morrison.  Not sure on the last 2.  Also Peterson the punter will be gone as will the long snapper.  

For OL, you are counting the Portland State transfer as a starter, correct?  On the bright side, Lotysz should finally be healthy, and I think they were originally planning to play him as the starter before he got banged up before the season started.  I think the Portland State transfer could potentially come back as well, correct?  There's a possibility that Waletzko decides to come back even, depending on how bad he injured his hand/wrist, and if it would affect his NFL prep/scrimmage/combine?  Losing Holm and Canady will be huge, but I think we have some legit depth at CB, and Coley showed some legit potential at safety.  Vaugn-Jones has made some eye opening plays as well.  Part of the reason I want to keep Bubba is that it seems that our young talent is as good as ever, and partly due to covid, they haven't been needed to play much.  If we can keep the team together, might we finally be able to reload at all of our positions?   It would be nice if Hinders could come back... it will be interesting to see who stays/leaves out of the senior class.  It says a lot about the coaching staff that so many seniors decided to come back for this fall season IMO.

[Oxbow6]

1 minute ago, Shawn-O said:

You're saying a swing pass to Belquist on 3rd and medium and asking him to break at least one tackle for a first down isn't ideal play calling?    These types of 3rd down calls seem to be happening repeatedly.   

Danny would handcuff Mahomes with his play calling.

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Shawn-O said:

You're saying a swing pass to Belquist on 3rd and medium and asking him to break at least one tackle for a first down isn't ideal play calling?    These types of 3rd down calls seem to be happening repeatedly.   

If one was to break down our third and 4th down calls this season and apply a grade, it would not be good.  The only consistent call which usually delivered on 3rd and 4th and very short was Q over the right guard.

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Good design then, wouldn't you agree?

I would agree with that (you sure you want to complement the coaching staff?).   But the original point was that receivers cant get open downfield for Tommy (due to athletic ability).  Which is partly why I think we see so many bubble screens, etc.  I do think that for a TE, that TE does have legit athleticism, but I don't think he did anything special to create separation here, because it looks like the DB's were anticipating the dump off pass to our running back.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

2020, New Orleans Saints, that hack #9 would get pulled for wildcat QB #7. 

First off, NFL to NCAA football is not a direct comparison. Second of all, at that point in his career, #9 had plenty of deficiencies, and those New Orleans teams were nothing too special. 
 

Other than that, I do think that is a solid comparison to what UND does. 

[gfhockey]

I wouldn’t makng getting Luke schluesner back 

 

best recruiter we have had and found diamonds in fough

 

theilen golloday etc

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

 Our offense has good yards per carry numbers, but our third down % and red zone offense is terrible, and I think that's because our offense routinely gets stuffed when we try to run the ball between the tackles when the defense is expecting it.

Putting Quincy Vaughn into the game in these situation is Freund’s way of handling short yardage and red zone, but it really isn’t that great of a strategy based on numbers. Plus, in some ways, it tips the defense to what is about to happen. 
 

From my perspective, I’d much rather have a multidimensional QB that can do it all, where the defense has to prepare for everything, rather than two quarterbacks that can only do somethings.

[geaux_sioux]

39 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Good design then, wouldn't you agree?

That’s not what blown implies.

[Midwestern Hawk]

17 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

That’s not what blown implies.

Blown means someone in the defense messed up, which is usually caused by the offense attempt to confuse the defense.

[geaux_sioux]

23 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Blown means someone in the defense messed up, which is usually caused by the offense attempt to confuse the defense.

JFC give it a rest already

[SiouxFan100]

As been said - we would be better if our qb scrambled for yards. Just the threat helps.

of course we don’t want our qb to get hurt either. Scramble and slide past the 1 st down marker please

 I asked before - how much can we expect our qb to increase in  arm strength (measured by how many yards he can pass) as he matures?

[Midwestern Hawk]

57 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Putting Quincy Vaughn into the game in these situation is Freund’s way of handling short yardage and red zone, but it really isn’t that great of a strategy based on numbers. Plus, in some ways, it tips the defense to what is about to happen. 
 

From my perspective, I’d much rather have a multidimensional QB that can do it all, where the defense has to prepare for everything, rather than two quarterbacks that can only do somethings.

Our red zone offense is ranked 11th in MVFC.  Our red zone defense is 12th.

[SiouxFan100]

1 minute ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Our red zone offense is ranked 11th in MVFC.  Our red zone defense is 12th.

A little surprised- especially the d