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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

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Heard from someone with ties to the Fargo Public School system that their hybrid model is just a temporary gig to appease parents and get kids acquainted with teachers before they move fully online by early October. I really hope this isn't the case or has been the undisclosed plan for awhile.

 

BTW Cass County hasn't had a death in 29 days.

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27 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Troll?  Eh, whatever...

I'm just undermining the cult's narratives with the truth.

That is very upsetting to them. 

They should stick to hockey and football.  Not my fault they chose to dive into defending the indefensible. 

Lol 

 

IALTO

we-choose-truth-9c7a2bb0de.jpg

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More evidence that herd immunity is the answer....and Fauci basically admits it.  The ironic thing is that those that have done best with Covid....are those with an immune system that has grown strong by fighting off similar viruses.  With all of this social distancing/quarantining going on people don't have the chance to catch the more minor viruses......that would help strengthen their immune system.....and have them ready to fight off more severe viruses when they pop up.  

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article244852012.html

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1 hour ago, TheFlop said:

More evidence that herd immunity is the answer....and Fauci basically admits it.  The ironic thing is that those that have done best with Covid....are those with an immune system that has grown strong by fighting off similar viruses.  With all of this social distancing/quarantining going on people don't have the chance to catch the more minor viruses......that would help strengthen their immune system.....and have them ready to fight off more severe viruses when they pop up.  

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article244852012.html

What evidence In your link suggests herd immunity is the answer? 

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4 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

What evidence In your link suggests herd immunity is the answer? 

did you even read it, or do you no understand what you read?  with in the first couple paragraphs it pretty much says it.

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3 minutes ago, 1972 said:

did you even read it, or do you no understand what you read?  with in the first couple paragraphs it pretty much says it.

I read it. The point of the article was to dig into why some people are asymptomatic while others get sever side effects. It goes on to say that some who were recently infected by another coronavirus (Mers or sars) May have some sort of immunity from T cells rather than antibodies. 
 

did you read it? How does this article provide evidence that herd immunity is the answer? Where in the first couple paragraphs did you understand that?

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28 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

What evidence In your link suggests herd immunity is the answer? 

What little credibility you had, if there was any left, is gone now if you can't understand.  Serious question, do you even know what herd immunity means?

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13 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

What little credibility you had, if there was any left, is gone now if you can't understand.  Serious question, do you even know what herd immunity means?

Explain to me the evidence your article provides that herd immunity is the answer.

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39 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

I read it. The point of the article was to dig into why some people are asymptomatic while others get sever side effects. It goes on to say that some who were recently infected by another coronavirus (Mers or sars) May have some sort of immunity from T cells rather than antibodies. 
 

did you read it? How does this article provide evidence that herd immunity is the answer? Where in the first couple paragraphs did you understand that?

Ok I feel sorry for you so I will explain.  People previously got sick with a virus/viruses....contrary to liberal beliefs this is not something that just started happening in March 2020....been happening since the beginning of man/woman/non-binary/LGBTGIQWQIAGFF people.  For those with normal immune systems (the majority of the population) getting these viruses has trained your immune system to be able to fight off that viruses and future viruses.  The people that didn't live in a bubble and didn't have pre-existing problems with their immune systems have fared fine with Covid.  The more Covid spreads through people that are able to handle it......the fewer people there will be going forward to keep catching it and spreading it to others that maybe can't handle it.

It really is a bandaid quick or slow type of thing.....and I understand why the bandaid wasn't yanked off right away.....but the slow peel of the last 4-5 months has been ridiculous.

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19 hours ago, Hayduke1 said:

Yup.  This is Trump's America...at least for a few more months. 

Europeans Say COVID-19 Revealed America as 'Fragile,' Inconsiderate

https://www.newsweek.com/europeans-say-covid-19-revealed-america-fragile-inconsiderate-1523860?fbclid=IwAR3Ik1iV17Mv8tx6LvMdUZaYzij7zLySnovgLNkQsITEojiLA5eIUYkuD88

 

I always enjoy when people put stock into what Europeans think about the United States. I don't care what people in South Dakota or Minnesota think about North Dakota, why would I care what some eurotrash with sauerkraut stuck in their teeth think about America? 

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19 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Ok I feel sorry for you so I will explain.  People previously got sick with a virus/viruses....contrary to liberal beliefs this is not something that just started happening in March 2020....been happening since the beginning of man/woman/non-binary/LGBTGIQWQIAGFF people.  For those with normal immune systems (the majority of the population) getting these viruses has trained your immune system to be able to fight off that viruses and future viruses.  The people that didn't live in a bubble and didn't have pre-existing problems with their immune systems have fared fine with Covid.  The more Covid spreads through people that are able to handle it......the fewer people there will be going forward to keep catching it and spreading it to others that maybe can't handle it.

It really is a bandaid quick or slow type of thing.....and I understand why the bandaid wasn't yanked off right away.....but the slow peel of the last 4-5 months has been ridiculous.

No need to feel sorry for me, though I'm sorry you are struggling to comprehend the meaning of evidence. While I see what you are saying, this is not what it says in your article that you claimed as evidence. Where is the evidence from your article that you can claim herd immunity is the answer to Covid 19? 

 

You realize the nursing home in Grand Forks is currently experiencing an outbreak right? Are you suggesting they should have their employees to retract their oathes, get rid of PPE, and just let this thing make it's way through so we can hurry up and get to your evidence based theory of herd immunity with Covid19? Why do you think they are going back to lockdown mode? Is Valley Senior Living ran by a bunch of liberals?

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4 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

No need to feel sorry for me, though I'm sorry you are struggling to comprehend the meaning of evidence. While I see what you are saying, this is not what it says in your article that you claimed as evidence. Where is the evidence from your article that you can claim herd immunity is the answer to Covid 19? 

 

You realize the nursing home in Grand Forks is currently experiencing an outbreak right? Are you suggesting they should have their employees to retract their oathes, get rid of PPE, and just let this thing make it's way through so we can hurry up and get to your evidence based theory of herd immunity with Covid19? Why do you think they are going back to lockdown mode? Is Valley Senior Living ran by a bunch of liberals?

reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

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1 minute ago, 1972 said:

reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

Elaborate for me then. Specifically how does the article provide evidence that herd immunity is the answer to covid19?  Or is my question too difficult for you to comprehend? 

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13 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

No need to feel sorry for me, though I'm sorry you are struggling to comprehend the meaning of evidence. While I see what you are saying, this is not what it says in your article that you claimed as evidence. Where is the evidence from your article that you can claim herd immunity is the answer to Covid 19? 

 

You realize the nursing home in Grand Forks is currently experiencing an outbreak right? Are you suggesting they should have their employees to retract their oathes, get rid of PPE, and just let this thing make it's way through so we can hurry up and get to your evidence based theory of herd immunity with Covid19? Why do you think they are going back to lockdown mode? Is Valley Senior Living ran by a bunch of liberals?

Your first question I (and frankly no one) can help you if you can't comprehend.  A virus needs a host.....if it runs out of hosts...it runs out of people to spread it.  

As to the outbreak you cited in Grand Forks, I specifically said people able to handle it.  People in long term care facilities are a vulnerable population and require a higher level of protection.  Apparently medical grade masks worn by trained medical personnel wasn't enough to prevent an outbreak.......maybe it would have helped to make them wear the same cloth masks that somehow are supposed to keep everyone safe in Hugo's.  

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11 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Your first question I (and frankly no one) can help you if you can't comprehend.  A virus needs a host.....if it runs out of hosts...it runs out of people to spread it.  

As to the outbreak you cited in Grand Forks, I specifically said people able to handle it.  People in long term care facilities are a vulnerable population and require a higher level of protection.  Apparently medical grade masks worn by trained medical personnel wasn't enough to prevent an outbreak.......maybe it would have helped to make them wear the same cloth masks that somehow are supposed to keep everyone safe in Hugo's.  

I understand a virus needs a host. So I will ask again, where in your article is the evidence that herd immunity is the answer?

In the nursing home's case, I'd argue that maybe it would help if there was less of the virus coming into the facility. But that would infringe on too many others' civil liberties right?

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here, this might help

 

herd im·mu·ni·ty
 
noun
noun: herd immunity; plural noun: herd immunities
  1. the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.
    "the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent"

 

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10 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Your first question I (and frankly no one) can help you if you can't comprehend.  A virus needs a host.....if it runs out of hosts...it runs out of people to spread it.  

As to the outbreak you cited in Grand Forks, I specifically said people able to handle it.  People in long term care facilities are a vulnerable population and require a higher level of protection.  Apparently medical grade masks worn by trained medical personnel wasn't enough to prevent an outbreak.......maybe it would have helped to make them wear the same cloth masks that somehow are supposed to keep everyone safe in Hugo's.  

Dude, he's right. Nothing in the article you posted supports what you're arguing. Either you don't completely understand herd immunity, or you don't understand the article.

The concept of herd immunity is based on stopping people from being transmitters of the disease. If you have enough of those people in the wild, then the disease cannot progress enough and eventually outbreaks fizzle out. But the article wasn't talking about that. The article was talking about the different levels of immune system response to C19 and how that response might be connected to exposure to other coronaviruses. The big thing from that article for the purposes of our discussion is that exposure to other coronaviruses DOES NOT give you immunity to C19 and it DOES NOT prevent you from being contagious. All it does is lessen the severity of the illness.

So if previous exposure to other coronaviruses does not give you complete immunity from C19 or prevent you from passing it on, how can it say anything about herd immunity? 

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I am by no means an expert on immunity or vaccinations, though I have some formal education and read about both regularly.

The question I can't find an answer to in any of the discussion I've seen online or in this forum is, if we are somehow unable to achieve herd immunity naturally through wild spread, how will a vaccination help protect anyone if the virus can be contracted more than once(this hasn't been fully decided yet)?

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4 hours ago, TheFlop said:

More evidence that herd immunity is the answer....and Fauci basically admits it.  The ironic thing is that those that have done best with Covid....are those with an immune system that has grown strong by fighting off similar viruses.  With all of this social distancing/quarantining going on people don't have the chance to catch the more minor viruses......that would help strengthen their immune system.....and have them ready to fight off more severe viruses when they pop up.  

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article244852012.html

The article explains boosted immune response to the new c-19 due to a lifetime of exposures to common corona viruses (229E etc)

I assume that’s your point since it’s a form of herd immunity. In the current situation, herd immunity is generally used in terms of exposure to only c-19

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8 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I am by no means an expert on immunity or vaccinations, though I have some formal education and read about both regularly.

The question I can't find an answer to in any of the discussion I've seen online or in this forum is, if we are somehow unable to achieve herd immunity naturally through wild spread, how will a vaccination help protect anyone if the virus can be contracted more than once(this hasn't been fully decided yet)?

There are a couple different ways we can do it depending on a few factors. The big factors will be how long the immunity lasts, what immunity percentage is needed for C19 herd immunity, and how much we really want this thing gone versus just containing it.

If the immunity from the vaccine typically lasts decades, then we add it to childhood vaccinations plus a booster shot every so often. If it only lasts a few years, maybe we just start giving it regularly to vulnerable populations and anyone else who wants it, just like the flu shot. If it's only a year or so, maybe we just include it in the flu shot(which is already a mix of four different vaccines). If the immunity lasts for a few years or more and we really want this thing gone, we go for a global distribution of the vaccine for free and keep it up for several years. We do a good enough job, and the virus is gone for good.

A lot will depend on how things happen after we get out of this pandemic. There have been other coronaviruses that we were very worried about, but they never came back after the first go around. As much as I hope C19 will do the same, I kinda doubt it will; it's just so much more communicative than those others. But if we get a vaccine that's even partially effective, we should be able to break the transmission chain.

Widespread vaccination plus a few additional months of masks and social distancing should drop the transmission rate hard enough so that contact tracing, spot testing, and limited quarantining can finish stamping it out. Then we just get together with other countries and make the C19 vaccination part of the visa process. That should take care of 99.9% of the problem. And then we reevaluate every five years or so. If we go 10 years without a C19 outbreak, drop the vaccine requirement. 

But even if we never make it to a 100% solution, that doesn't mean it's a failure. We don't need perfect; good enough will do just fine. And if a vaccine can get the transmission rate down low enough for the other techniques to finish the job, that's definitely good enough.

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9 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

There are a couple different ways we can do it depending on a few factors. The big factors will be how long the immunity lasts, what immunity percentage is needed for C19 herd immunity, and how much we really want this thing gone versus just containing it.

If the immunity from the vaccine typically lasts decades, then we add it to childhood vaccinations plus a booster shot every so often. If it only lasts a few years, maybe we just start giving it regularly to vulnerable populations and anyone else who wants it, just like the flu shot. If it's only a year or so, maybe we just include it in the flu shot(which is already a mix of four different vaccines). If the immunity lasts for a few years or more and we really want this thing gone, we go for a global distribution of the vaccine for free and keep it up for several years. We do a good enough job, and the virus is gone for good.

A lot will depend on how things happen after we get out of this pandemic. There have been other coronaviruses that we were very worried about, but they never came back after the first go around. As much as I hope C19 will do the same, I kinda doubt it will; it's just so much more communicative than those others. But if we get a vaccine that's even partially effective, we should be able to break the transmission chain.

Widespread vaccination plus a few additional months of masks and social distancing should drop the transmission rate hard enough so that contact tracing, spot testing, and limited quarantining can finish stamping it out. Then we just get together with other countries and make the C19 vaccination part of the visa process. That should take care of 99.9% of the problem. And then we reevaluate every five years or so. If we go 10 years without a C19 outbreak, drop the vaccine requirement. 

But even if we never make it to a 100% solution, that doesn't mean it's a failure. We don't need perfect; good enough will do just fine. And if a vaccine can get the transmission rate down low enough for the other techniques to finish the job, that's definitely good enough.

Thanks for all the info, that is helpful.

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2 hours ago, Redneksioux said:

No need to feel sorry for me, though I'm sorry you are struggling to comprehend the meaning of evidence. While I see what you are saying, this is not what it says in your article that you claimed as evidence. Where is the evidence from your article that you can claim herd immunity is the answer to Covid 19? 

 

You realize the nursing home in Grand Forks is currently experiencing an outbreak right? Are you suggesting they should have their employees to retract their oathes, get rid of PPE, and just let this thing make it's way through so we can hurry up and get to your evidence based theory of herd immunity with Covid19? Why do you think they are going back to lockdown mode? Is Valley Senior Living ran by a bunch of liberals?

probably

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2 hours ago, Redneksioux said:

I understand a virus needs a host. So I will ask again, where in your article is the evidence that herd immunity is the answer?

In the nursing home's case, I'd argue that maybe it would help if there was less of the virus coming into the facility. But that would infringe on too many others' civil liberties right?

Who's bringing the virus into the facility?  Maybe those people that are exposing vulnerable people to the virus should be more careful?  Me going into Hugo's to buy a milk without a mask or my kid playing a basketball game isn't the one doing it. 

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7 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

Who's bringing the virus into the facility?  Maybe those people that are exposing vulnerable people to the virus should be more careful?  Me going into Hugo's to buy a milk without a mask or my kid playing a basketball game isn't the one doing it. 

More than likely it is asymptomatic staff.

You can't expect PPE to be 100% foolproof in a medical facility when it's being re-used because there's not enough to change it out between patients.

If you go into Hugo's or a basketball game and are an asymptomatic carrier, you definitely are not helping the situation. Plus Hugo's is asking you to wear a mask while in their store, why do you feel a need to go in without one?

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