2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[UNDfaninMICH]

47 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

In any "business" there's really only two groups...those who pull the wagon and those that ride in the wagon. Rarely does it make sense or is it equatable..... especially in healthcare.

So if it doesn’t make sense, should healthcare be a business venture? The number of “executives” at my institution has grown by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, with little improvement in delivery of care. I assume the same is true across the country. 
 

There are quite a few people who perform huge roles related to service for the people of our country without the expectation of seven figure salaries. Hint: look north of Minot and west of Grand Forks. 

[SiouxBoys]

41 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Our big ace in the hole in ND is lack of population density. If we were all stacked on top of one and other like they are in China lockdown would be the only smart option.

Also why if mother nature decided to drop a -40 on us for a couple weeks I would welcome it with open arms.

[yzerman19]

1 minute ago, UNDfaninMICH said:

So if it doesn’t make sense, should healthcare be a business venture? The number of “executives” at my institution has grown by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, with little improvement in delivery of care. I assume the same is true across the country. 
 

There are quite a few people who perform huge roles related to service for the people of our country without the expectation of seven figure salaries. Hint: look north of Minot and west of Grand Forks. 

Supply and demand.  
 

most healthcare is not for profit, so executive comp is heavier in salary due to no stock

[southpaw]

5 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

New flash......our demographics in this country are not identical to either of those countries. Or Germany.

That's unfortunately very true.

Germany, Italy and South Korea all have a higher life expectancy, lower child mortality, lower maternal mortality, lower burden of disease, and significantly lower healthcare expenditures vs GDP.

[yzerman19]

Also remember execs are ultimately responsible for employment, which has a massive economic impact in the community. 

[Oxbow6]

8 minutes ago, UNDfaninMICH said:

So if it doesn’t make sense, should healthcare be a business venture? The number of “executives” at my institution has grown by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, with little improvement in delivery of care. I assume the same is true across the country. 
 

There are quite a few people who perform huge roles related to service for the people of our country without the expectation of seven figure salaries. Hint: look north of Minot and west of Grand Forks. 

Well said. IMO it is biggest "crisis" in healthcare.

That's spreading faster than corona!

[Cratter]

In an ironic twist, if you grew up in a hand sanitizer free world you have a greater chance of combating all sorts of coronaviruses.

[yzerman19]

1 minute ago, southpaw said:

That's unfortunately very true.

Germany, Italy and South Korea all have a higher life expectancy, lower child mortality, lower maternal mortality, lower burden of disease, and significantly lower healthcare expenditures vs GDP.

Because US system is multi-modal in outcome distribution.  
 

if you generally take care of yourself, have insurance, and live in certain areas of this country (not the Deep South) you have the best healthcare and quality of life years the world has ever contemplated.  Never confuse outcomes with the quality of care- people play a big role in their health status.

[planetearth]

1 minute ago, southpaw said:

That's unfortunately very true.

Germany, Italy and South Korea all have a higher life expectancy, lower child mortality, lower maternal mortality, lower burden of disease, and significantly lower healthcare expenditures vs GDP.

Sure is nice the USofA helped those nations out with things like:

1. Ending World Wars/Wars against brutal, murderous dictators

2. Ending communism

 

[geaux_sioux]

37 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

We can not assemble in "large crowds" at sporting events, churches, ect... so let's shift the social gathering points to Walmarts, Sam's, Costco's, ect...

Had to make a run to Walmart after work for my wife last night. More people in that store than were at the last game of the Thursday night Class A session at the SHAC.

My youngest daughter just got back from MSP with some friends. Stayed at Great Wolf Lodge and went to MOA. She said both places were packed.

 

And what about church?

[geaux_sioux]

19 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

New flash......our demographics in this country are not identical to either of those countries. Or Germany.

Correct, we have far more rampant chronic disease.

[Oxbow6]

1 minute ago, keikla said:

*cough* under-reimbursement from medicare/medicaid *cough*

So you are in favor of a single payer system? 

[Sioux>Bison]

On 3/13/2020 at 7:59 AM, UND1983 said:

Why is the Mall of America still open?  10x worse than any high school basketball game or college hockey game with 3,000 people in attendance

Yeah let’s send all the worker home and not pay them. That will make this crisis better........... We are shooting ourselves in the foot. The only one quarantined should be those above 60.

[Oxbow6]

2 minutes ago, keikla said:

Haha that's another discussion for another time!

We have time...... nothing else going  on in this country.

[UND1983]

17 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah let’s send all the worker home and not pay them. That will make this crisis better........... We are shooting ourselves in the foot. The only one quarantined should be those above 60.

OK.  So the economy is more important than actually controlling the spread of the virus.  

[Cratter]

Supply was low but there was still TP and baby wipes available at the North end Walmart in GF.

[Oxbow6]

10 minutes ago, keikla said:

I don't mean this at you personally, but I think people are looking at this wrong, so I'm using you as an example.  It really shouldn't be "Am I going to get sick?".  It should be "Am I going to get others sick?"  Your daughter is young and presumably healthy.  That doesn't mean that she won't be infected from her recent outings and just asymptomatic.  You can't say there aren't many cases in MN and ND, because few people can get tested.

Let's say she spreads it to the rest of your family because you live together, and the rest of you also stay asymptomatic.  No big deal for your family.  Except for that fact that you work in healthcare, correct?  With direct contact to patients?  So if you are an asymptomatic carrier, I'm assuming not all the patients who walk through your door are young, healthy, and have fully-intact immune systems.  Do you wear a mask all day, every day at work?  Not to protect yourself but to protect others from you?  Does the rest of the staff in the office/hospital wear masks?

Instead of worrying entirely about whether or not people will individually get sick, they should be doing everything they can to not be another "Patient 31" like in South Korea.  https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html

Wow. Do you want to have kids live in fear? Are we supposed to stop living all together? I see more sick people in a day than most of society sees in a month. So I shouldn't have walked into Walmart last night?

Let's say.....let's say.....

If you live in a "let's say" world what's the point of getting up in the morning.

This is the **** that fans the flames in this country.

[Walsh Hall]

My anecdotal story this morning - Went to a nice local donut shop in Bismarck this morning around 8:00.  Typically it’s packed with a 10-15 person line at that time.  Literally not one person there.

I’m more concerned for consumer based small businesses than for the general public health.

Take the necessary reasonable precautions and live your life!

[Sioux>Bison]

14 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

OK.  So the economy is more important than actually controlling the spread of the virus.  

Yes more people will suffer because of the economy than will suffer from this virus.

[yzerman19]

10 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

OK.  So the economy is more important than actually controlling the spread of the virus.  

If protecting people from viruses with a low lethality is superordinate to the broader economic stability of the country, we are screwed...

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

If protecting people from viruses with a low lethality is superordinate to the broader economic stability of the country, we are screwed...

Seems like we are picking and choosing what's important to shut down right now with questionable consistency.  But that's just me.

[yzerman19]

43 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So you are in favor of a single payer system? 

Aside from things I’ve already said about access and funding and reimbursement differential, the best part about Medicare for all is that a Federal political appointee, bureaucrats, and Washington politicians would call all the shots.  No more local decision making based on the region/community, but bill pork and influence as determinants...say goodbye to ”fly-over”state healthcare....

 

hope everyone read the sarcasm

[yzerman19]

3 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Seems like we are picking and choosing what's important to shut down right now with questionable consistency.  But that's just me.

Where I am in CA it’s pretty much everything

[UNDfaninMICH]

43 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Supply and demand.  
 

most healthcare is not for profit, so executive comp is heavier in salary due to no stock

Supply: Here's what happens in my community: Get extensive training in medicine, become a practicing physician. Get put on a committee or two, do things that please the higher ups, like find ways to get the grunts to do even more work. Maybe have some connections to wealthy donors. Get sent to an MBA program at the expense of the hospital system (truly, at the expense of the general public who pay for it via their insurers). That MBA will be from a school that is not at all respected outside of our little community. Finish MBA, become a newly minted executive, abandon your clinical practice that you were heavily trained for and experienced in, double your salary. 

 

Demand: Who is creating this demand? The executives who want to decrease their workloads, so they find a few sub-executives? Again, the growth in executive positions in healthcare systems (including medical schools) is growing at a staggering rate, at least around here. Someone retires, and his job is then split into two brand new positions. Add in the executives at the medical board for each specialty, as well as the executives in professional organizations for each specialty. Oh, and look out for NEW subspecialties to be needlessly created so that people in academic medicine can have new ways to make money without seeing patients.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/05/physician-regulators-paid-front-line-doctors.html

[yzerman19]

3 minutes ago, keikla said:

 

All of that fear and unknown goes away if we could just get access to testing.  In the meantime, yeah, I think people should be more conservative in their actions.

I just don’t think the testing really matters for most...if as you say people are conservative and responsible- don’t give it, don’t get it...if sick, limit your interactions with other people.  If you don’t need to leave the house, don’t leave the house.