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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)


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42 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

But do I feel like I’ve heard this tune before? Yes. 

Excuse us if some of us are skeptical of the experts.

Feels like we've went down this road a few times before.

Could this finally be the one that is different? Sure.

Will it be though?

To be continued....

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The only people who need to be tested are health care workers, the elderly, and those with underlying health conditions.  If you are young (under 50) and healthy and are taking up a test kit, crowding

This country is being bright to its knees by fear....not the virus. Recovery from getting the virus is a couple weeks. Recovery of society from this hysteria will be years.

It’s sad that about half the country still believes outlets like msnbc and cnn.  You would think after they lied everyday for 3 years about Russian collusion, people would get the hint of what their t

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10 minutes ago, .357 said:

Well, sorry to inform you, because the troops are just arriving there, according to that article. Quite a risk to place our 30,000 troops & local population there in, yes? After all, this is a growing pandemic, according to the news outlets. 

What do you make of this decision, iramurphy, to go ahead with this military exercise, considering that the rest of the world is going into lockdown?

It was 20k, not 30k, and it was reduced last week to less than that. It still might not happen, and those troops might come back or hunker in place to assist if needed.

 

And the most important part of the exercise is actually practicing getting everything there and getting it back. The military rarely gets a chance to practice moving large amounts of men and equipment to Europe at the same time as if it were a war scenario. They might decide to trim the exercise to just that.

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1 hour ago, UND1983 said:

He, as a supposed expert, is openly promoting the "fact" that 1 million people are going to die from this virus and only because of Trump's inaction early on.  Yah, no politics involved at all.  

Repeat: 1 million people are going to die.   

Not to worry; if Corona doesn't end up being as bad as these prognosticators suggest, they will be the first to come forward and walk back their critical comments of the handling of it all, and instead praise the President and everyone involved in making the difficult decisions surrounding this crisis.    Right??  ******

 

Also, i'm curious, with all these experts being able to predict the future under the current administration's handling of the situation, what are their estimates for infections/deaths if someone else would have been running the country, relying on their set of experts to make the hard decisions?  It should be just as easy to come up with those estimates.   No deaths?   March Madness in full swing next week?  #9 hanging in the Ralph a month from now?   Let's hear those estimates.

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45 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

That is not the prevailing opinion...

Pretty sure it is though.

Most experts are predicting between 700,000 to 1,200,000 Americans are going to die from the Coronavirus.

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17 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Andy Slavitt is a healthcare data and analytics expert.  He is also a well respected businessman in the space.

Thanks. He has an impressive resume in health care administration and business.  With all due respect he isn’t one of the go to guys in Infectious Disease. We don’t know for sure how this will all play out but the CDC puts out regular updates, the State Health Depts across the country put out regular updates and I get one from our parent organization virtually every day. All of those sources are more realizable than an administrator with no training or experience in Infectious Disease. None of the reliable sources that I count on are predicting 1 million deaths but this is a new virus and we still are trying to learn and that includes developing a vaccine. If this guy said 1million deaths in the US I would disagree. 

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15 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

It was 20k, not 30k, and it was reduced last week to less than that. It still might not happen, and those troops might come back or hunker in place to assist if needed.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/30000-u-s-soldiers-sent-into-europe-without-masks/5706084/amp 

"However, one category of U.S. citizens is exempted from these rules: the 20,000 soldiers beginning to arrive from the United States in European ports and airports for the Defender Europe 20 exercise, the largest U.S. troop deployment in Europe in the last 25 years. Including those already present, about 30,000 U.S. troops will participate in April and May, flanked by 7,000 troops from 17 NATO member and partner countries, including Italy."

 

That article is from three days ago, with no mention in my feeds of reducing these numbers or sending them back, unless you can show otherwise. The number of personnel participating is more like 37,000, actually. 

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23 minutes ago, .357 said:

Well, sorry to inform you, because the troops are just arriving there, according to that article. Quite a risk to place our 30,000 troops & local population there in, yes? After all, this is a growing pandemic, according to the news outlets. 

What do you make of this decision, iramurphy, to go ahead with this military exercise, considering that the rest of the world is going into lockdown?

 

 

I would disagree with the decision. 

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8 hours ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Interesting article.  I wish it would explain how things would be different if the proposed funding cuts and other actual cuts had never occurred.  More test kits?  Fewer travel or group bans? 

I see it was written Jan. 31st.  It reads more like someone trying to Monday morning quarterback a crisis, before said crisis happens.  

I miss the swine flu.  You know, those good old days when an epidemic could occur without half the country finger pointing, manufacturing outrage, and inducing panic by claiming those in charge aren't doing enough before the apocalyptic event even began.    

This isn’t a black/white, all/nothing scenario,  Nor should it be political. This should be about facts, truth and public health.

Trump is doing a fine job as of late.  I applaud him. :) However his initial actions have left us behind the curve as it pertains to preparation. He systematically dismantled the Office of Pandemic Response and never replaced them. This isn’t ‘fake news’.

As such, it greatly affected management, communication and chain of command as it pertained to the ability to effectively implement a comprehensive strategy and response to the pandemic. Health security officials were screaming about this 2 years ago.

So what happened? Covid spread for several weeks, without most people knowing anything, nor did the administration care to do anything about it.  "We have it totally under control.  It's just one person coming from China.  It's going to be just fine." - Trump, Jan 22, 2020

And here we are, with a lack of diagnostic testing, delay testing labs result, etc.  As I said, continued problems in communication and supply chain.  Recent article from LA: 

 

Problems mount with coronavirus testing, limiting access and sowing confusion

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-testing-kits-lack-key-ingredient-causing-confusion

 

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7 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Thanks. He has an impressive resume in health care administration and business.  With all due respect he isn’t one of the go to guys in Infectious Disease. We don’t know for sure how this will all play out but the CDC puts out regular updates, the State Health Depts across the country put out regular updates and I get one from our parent organization virtually every day. All of those sources are more realizable than an administrator with no training or experience in Infectious Disease. None of the reliable sources that I count on are predicting 1 million deaths but this is a new virus and we still are trying to learn and that includes developing a vaccine. If this guy said 1million deaths in the US I would disagree. 

The 1,000,000 came from one of the 4 scenarios presented by the CDC group preparing earlier for the pandemic. They also mentioned that responses, behavioral changes, testing and treatment would affect those numbers but there was not a new prediction. 

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4 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I would disagree with the decision. 

Well why would this exercise be allowed to continue, considering the gravity of the situation? Aren't we risking greater infections and a greater catastrophe if this goes ahead? Won't it fan the pandemic to a much higher degree than if no military exercise happens at all? 

 

Or could there be another reason it's being allowed to continue?

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16 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Pretty sure it is though.

Most experts are predicting between 700,000 to 1,200,000 Americans are going to die from the Coronavirus.

It came from a group working 4 scenarios and one included the numbers that you refer to. They didn’t account for the preventive measures being enacted, testing, treatment etc. I don’t believe “most experts” believe this will happen but they aren’t all communicating with me. 

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1 minute ago, .357 said:

Well why would this exercise be allowed to continue, considering the gravity of the situation? Aren't we risking greater infections and a greater catastrophe if this goes ahead? Won't it fan the pandemic to a much higher degree than if no military exercise happens at all? 

 

Or could there be another reason it's being allowed to continue?

Having been stationed in Germany during similar exercises in the past, some of the personnel has likely been there before Christmas. It used to be called REFORGER. It also involved militarily forces from other NATO countries. I have no idea of why nor how they will proceed. 

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23 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

Thanks. He has an impressive resume in health care administration and business.  With all due respect he isn’t one of the go to guys in Infectious Disease. We don’t know for sure how this will all play out but the CDC puts out regular updates, the State Health Depts across the country put out regular updates and I get one from our parent organization virtually every day. All of those sources are more realizable than an administrator with no training or experience in Infectious Disease. None of the reliable sources that I count on are predicting 1 million deaths but this is a new virus and we still are trying to learn and that includes developing a vaccine. If this guy said 1million deaths in the US I would disagree. 

If you read my posts, you will see I’m not a panic button guy.  You will also see that I’d like to see his data and narrative.  The fact he has said this however peaks my attention more than others.  
 

In a major meeting, There are people in the leather chairs in the room, there are people on the phone, and there’s everybody else.  If Andy isn’t in the room or on the phone, he is talking directly and personally to those who are.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he is running the numbers before they go to the CDC.

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16 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

This isn’t a black/white, all/nothing scenario,  Nor should it be political. This should be about facts, truth and public health.

Trump is doing a fine job as of late.  I applaud him. :) However his initial actions have left us behind the curve as it pertains to preparation. He systematically dismantled the Office of Pandemic Response and never replaced them. This isn’t ‘fake news’.

As such, it greatly affected management, communication and chain of command as it pertained to the ability to effectively implement a comprehensive strategy and response to the pandemic. Health security officials were screaming about this 2 years ago.

So what happened? Covid spread for several weeks, without most people knowing anything, nor did the administration care to do anything about it.  "We have it totally under control.  It's just one person coming from China.  It's going to be just fine." - Trump, Jan 22, 2020

And here we are, with a lack of diagnostic testing, delay testing labs result, etc.  As I said, continued problems in communication and supply chain.  Recent article from LA: 

 

Problems mount with coronavirus testing, limiting access and sowing confusion

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-testing-kits-lack-key-ingredient-causing-confusion

 

Thanks.  That’s all I have heard as well, is regarding the test kits.  Seems to be a lot of criticism of the handling of the entire situation if test kits is the only problem.  

 Again, I wish someone would put out their numbers for infections and deaths if we would’ve had test kits earlier.    And then subtract from that number the estimated lives saved by halting travel from China at a time when the WHO admonished the administration for making that decision 

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1 minute ago, iramurphy said:

 (edit) I have no idea of why nor how they will proceed. 

Well, it would probably be important to get answers from those authorizing this exercise BEFORE allowing it to continue, right? ... considering how it could very well fan this pandemic out of control, endangering 37k troops & the entire European continent, yes?

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1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

I know some of you here have great financial minds......if this federal emergency stays in place for another 6-8 weeks and domestic air travel is done and restaurants and non-essential businesses are done. Plus everything else currently done. Where are all the folks that aren't sick, don't have corona and don't have work or will not have an income in the foreseeable future going to be in 6-8 weeks?

Gun and ammo stocks up?

 

Bump

 

I would like someone to address this. This IMO is the elephant in the room. What happens to these people? Their families? We seem to be strictly focused of keeping grandma's with CHF or emphysema or diabetes with secondary renal failure alive in this thread.

Where are we as a functioning society if this social distancing lockdown is still effect as we approach Memorial Day? People are still going to get infected. Some will die. Who picks up the pieces of lives shattered and destroyed by the inability to make a living. People and kids with futures ahead of them.....not just another birthday or two.

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6 minutes ago, NDinCO said:

Jesus H Christ can we please close this thread? I try not to come back here but it's like driving by a massive car wreck - can't help but peek. Many people think this is baloney, many people think it's an existential threat. You think anything a bunch of puck heads says on this site will have any substantial impact on events, or bring back the Frozen Four? Can we all just agree this is an incredible sad event for Sioux Hockey and especially the players, and most notable the seniors. This is a HOCKEY site may I remind you. But have at it...

We’re all bored...and some of us are puck heads and healthcare heads too

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8 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Bump

 

I would like someone to address this. This IMO is the elephant in the room. What happens to these people? Their families? We seem to be strictly focused of keeping grandma's with CHF or emphysema or diabetes with secondary renal failure alive in this thread.

Where are we as a functioning society if this social distancing lockdown is still effect as we approach Memorial Day? People are still going to get infected. Some will die. Who picks up the pieces of lives shattered and destroyed by the inability to make a living. People and kids with futures ahead of them.....not just another birthday or two.

Hoping it’s half that time, but your point remains.  Wish I could say most people can ride that out, but I know most cant.  Might be a hard lesson for many about driving new trucks and having a 60 inch TV and the latest iPhone.

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8 hours ago, Cratter said:

Italy has a much smaller much older population than the United States. 

Since this is less fatal than the flu for most people who get it, the USA wont have to worry about Italy comparisons. 

so easily google - able - according to Pew Social Trends, as of 2015 Italy had 20% over 65 vs. 13% in the U.S.  Along with Germany, Italy has the highest percentage of older people than Europe or North America.   Why would you choose to tell a blatant falsehood?  Just lazy, or...

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1 minute ago, wasmania said:

so easily google - able - according to Pew Social Trends, as of 2015 Italy had 20% over 65 vs. 13% in the U.S.  Along with Germany, Italy has the highest percentage of older people than Europe or North America.   Why would you choose to tell a blatant falsehood?  Just lazy, or...

I think he missed a comma.  Italy has a much smaller, older population.  

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