Students Spearhead Effort for Fighting Hawks Mascot

[stoneySIOUX]

Just now, Siouxperfan7 said:

We all agree the list of "hostile and abusive" native american nicknames was ridiculous and an overreach by the NCAA.  We all agree the Standing Rock tribe should have been given the opportunity to vote their approval of disapproval of UND using the Fighting Sioux name.  We all agree that having to retire the fighting Sioux name and logo sucked (to put it lightly).  We all agree that the entire process of selecting a new name was horrible and were upset the committee didn't follow their own guidelines by selecting something unique and relevant to the state of North Dakota.  We all agree that Fighting Hawks is a bland, generic, just another bird, etc nickname.  We all agree that they could have come up with a better logo.  

All of us as UND fans are in the same boat regarding the whole nickname fiasco. Where we differ is how we are dealing with it.  There are things in life that don't always go according to how we would like them too.  When that happens you can either feel sorry for yourself, get angry, take it out on others, etc. Or, you can realize that you cant change the past, accept the outcome, and move on.  Yes losing the Sioux name was hard on all of us.  But in the grand scheme of things in regards to relevance, it is not something that a person should be trying to deal with years later.  It's not a death in the family, a child getting diagnosed with cancer, losing your job, losing your home to a fire.  It's the nickname of your favorite college program changing.  Just try to keep that in perspective.

 

AGAIN.... this is NOT helping the cause to tell people how they should and shouldn't feel or "grieve" this name change. As well-intentioned as I'm assuming this is, this whole thing is you telling adults how they need to think about something. Not gonna work and in fact, probably inflames the argument.

[jdub27]

44 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I think students and student athletes could not care less whatsoever about this debate. Do you honestly believe a football, hockey, or basketball.... hell ANY recruit wouldn't come her because people debate about this on social media?? GTFO.

I want proof of one situation that this has happened. Just one.

And btw, they aren't dumping on the University. They are dumping on the nickname they don't like, so unless you have proof this is hurting the University, it's a nonsensical, strawman argument. 

Do you think people look favorably on the constant ripping of the new nickname and logo? When looking into a college and they see a contingent of the fan base (apparently the large majority according to some ) ripping on the school's nickname and logo every chance they get, saying they can never get behind that and support but instead will continue to support something the prospective student-athlete will never wear or represent? Threatening to withhold donations and/or support (even if it is just an empty threat, but hey, how are they supposed to know that)? How can you possibly state that has zero effect on the opinion formed by someone looking from an outsider perspective? It's obviously impossible to quantify the actual effect, but in no way can you possibly think it can be anything but a negative.

The University is trying to move forward and they finally have a brand to promote. They are able to put effort into doing that, something which has been sorely missing for the last decade, instead of wasting resources on a lost battle. The constant negative ripping on that effort is absolutely dumping on the University, directly or indirectly. I don't know how you can frame it any other way. But again, it's somehow justified because some people need just a little bit more time to move on from a nickname of a college that has been gone for 5+ years instead of just quietly hate the new one.

[stoneySIOUX]

12 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Do you think people look favorably on the constant ripping of the new nickname and logo? When looking into a college and they see a contingent of the fan base (apparently the large majority according to some ) ripping on the school's nickname and logo every chance they get, saying they can never get behind that and support but instead will continue to support something the prospective student-athlete will never wear or represent? Threatening to withhold donations and/or support (even if it is just an empty threat, but hey, how are they supposed to know that)? How can you possibly state that has zero effect on the opinion formed by someone looking from an outsider perspective? It's obviously impossible to quantify the actual effect, but in no way can you possibly think it can be anything but a negative.

The University is trying to move forward and they finally have a brand to promote. They are able to put effort into doing that, something which has been sorely missing for the last decade, instead of wasting resources on a lost battle. The constant negative ripping on that effort is absolutely dumping on the University, directly or indirectly. I don't know how you can frame it any other way. But again, it's somehow justified because some people need just a little bit more time to move on from a nickname of a college that has been gone for 5+ years instead of just quietly hate the new one.

Because I've seen zero to suggest that this "debate" is stopping students from attending our University. Is it a positive? No. But this BS debate is not stopping people from coming to UND and that includes non-athletes. It's just not.

Let's try a roleplay here...

17 year old D-1 hockey recruit: "Hmmmm... UND has a really good tradition of putting hockey players into the NHL, but I really don't like that the nickname debate is still ongoing." *Insert basketball, football, any sport or any non-athlete for any said benefit...*

Long term, yes, I can absolutely understand the idea of donations being withheld potentially being a problem, but a 6-year trend is waaaay to small to decide if that's the case. 

[FGHTNSX Hawkey14]

I wish the Sioux Forever crowd would be ok with people calling them the Hawks, and the FH crowd would be ok with people calling them the Sioux. Why do people care so much about what other people call it. Sheesh!

[MafiaMan]

Keep on shouting...the nickname is not coming back.  I love my university enough to cheer for the teams and respect the nickname selection.  

Nothing's gonna change it...we are who we are.  

[UND1983]

5 minutes ago, FGHTNSX Hawkey14 said:

I wish the Sioux Forever crowd would be ok with people calling them the Hawks, and the FH crowd would be ok with people calling them the Sioux. Why do people care so much about what other people call it. Sheesh!

Yeah man, cause that's a really good idea.  Not like we are all here cause we love UND or anything.  I repeat, love UND. 

Having two separate fanbases for one college is totally a really neato idea.  

[ChrisUND1]

Sioux forever crowd, you are Norman Bates, the Sioux name is your mother.  Old Norman kept at it for years... 

 

 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, ChrisUND1 said:

Sioux forever crowd, you are Norman Bates, the Sioux name is your mother.  Old Norman kept at it for years... 

 

 

She probably died feeling pretty good about her choice in nickname. 

[BobIwabuchiFan]

2 hours ago, UND1983 said:

UND/ND spent a million dollars trying to save the nickname and got nothing in return except clowns complaining "they didn't do enough".  Yet you are complaining about 35K for a mascot?

 

I'm wondering why we didn't need a mascot before when we were the Fighting Sioux?  If the new nickname was catching on so fast, why would we need a mascot to represent the university's brand?  Could it be that its not catching on as we are all told?

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Yeah man, cause that's a really good idea.  Not like we are all here cause we love UND or anything.  I repeat, love UND. 

Having two separate fanbases for one college is totally a really neato idea.  

He's just wanting people to stop fighting about how people choose to move on from a nickname. That's it.

[UND1983]

3 minutes ago, BobIwabuchiFan said:

I'm wondering why we didn't need a mascot before when we were the Fighting Sioux?  If the new nickname was catching on so fast, why would we need a mascot to represent the university's brand?  Could it be that its not catching on as we are all told?

Ummmm, if you cannot figure that our for yourself I can't help you.

[Teeder11]

12 minutes ago, BobIwabuchiFan said:

I'm wondering why we didn't need a mascot before when we were the Fighting Sioux?  If the new nickname was catching on so fast, why would we need a mascot to represent the university's brand?  Could it be that its not catching on as we are all told?

Students said they wanted it.

Edit: And an alum(s) wanted to put up the money to make it happen. These people have given a lot to the University to help in other areas, such as athletics and academics. 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, Teeder11 said:

Students said they wanted it.

Lol I personally don't believe this is driven by the students. Either way, I get why they are having one.

[Teeder11]

1 minute ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Lol I personally don't believe this is driven by the students. Either way, I get why they are having one.

Yes, my mistake.... students and alumni.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, FGHTNSX Hawkey14 said:

I wish the Sioux Forever crowd would be ok with people calling them the Hawks, and the FH crowd would be ok with people calling them the Sioux. Why do people care so much about what other people call it. Sheesh!

I mean one of those is the actual current nickname of the University, which they are putting time and effort into marketing and one isn't (and the reasons why it isn't and can no longer be aren't even debatable anymore). Seems pretty obvious why one group would be confused by the other's insistence.

I really wish there was a video of Bubba's speech at the logo unveiling, really puts things into perspective for those who are stuck on supporting a nickname instead of a University regardless of what logo/nickname they have.

 

EDIT: Turns out there is, should start at the relevant point.

 

[ChrisUND1]

16 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

She probably died feeling pretty good about her choice in nickname. 

Background:  Norman Bates' pretended his mom was alive for years,, even dressing up as her and impersonating her...when actually she was mummified and dead.  See any parallels here?

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

Yes, my mistake.... students and alumni.

Haha... you can believe that, I understand. I definitely think this is being driven by the administration, however. You have more proof than I, but it seems pretty logical to me.

[stoneySIOUX]

Just now, ChrisUND1 said:

Background:  Norman Bates' pretended his mom was alive for years,, even dressing up as her and impersonating her...when actually she was mummified and dead.  See any parallels here?

Thanks. I know the story. I was joking. 

[Teeder11]

4 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Haha... you can believe that, I understand. I definitely think this is being driven by the administration, however. You have more proof than I, but it seems pretty logical to me.

I can understand the cynicism... but from what I've seen this is being led by students and alums. The administration also has said they are staying out of it until the students make their pick. Kennedy also has said that he will defer to the students' design pick, whichever one of the options they vote for.  But again, I get what you're saying. 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, Teeder11 said:

I can understand the cynicism... but from what I've seen this is being led by students and alums. The administration also has said they are staying out of it until the students make their pick. Kennedy also has said that he will defer to the students' design pick, whichever of the options they vote for.  But again, I get what you're saying. 

I truly hope this was a groundswell from the students, but I definitely don't think this is the whole story. My guess... a group from the admin reached out to Student Gov to say they wanted to do this and asked if they thought this was a good idea. Then, Student Gov ran with it. They can let StuGov run it and look like the good guys, too. Again, just me spit balling, but it seems weird to think this was all started by the student population.

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I truly hope this was a groundswell from the students, but I definitely don't think this is the whole story. My guess... a group from the admin reached out to Student Gov to say they wanted to do this and asked if they thought this was a good idea. Then, Student Gov ran with it. They can let StuGov run it and look like the good guys, too. Again, just me spit balling, but it seems weird to think this was all started by the student population.

Could've sworn I read the idea came up during a gameday committee meeting and the student gov't decided to run with it.  But really, it was brought up here years ago (there were people speculating on a mascot before we even had a new nickname) and it's not like it's some crazy new idea in college athletics.  I guess I don't see why who initially proposed it matters, as long as the student gov't embraced the idea without being told they had to (the past few student gov't presidents haven't really been shy about ripping the administration, so I doubt that's the case here).

[Teeder11]

2 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Could've sworn I read the idea came up during a gameday committee meeting and the student gov't decided to run with it.  But really, it was brought up here years ago (there were people speculating on a mascot before we even had a new nickname) and it's not like it's some crazy new idea in college athletics.  I guess I don't see why who initially proposed it matters, as long as the student gov't embraced the idea without being told they had to (the past few student gov't presidents haven't really been shy about ripping the administration, so I doubt that's the case here).

Good call. Forgot about that. It originally was a product of the gameday committee.

[Siouxphan27]

I like sports. 

[FGHTNSX Hawkey14]

42 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I mean one of those is the actual current nickname of the University and one isn't (and the reasons why it isn't and can no longer be aren't even debatable anymore). Seems pretty obvious why one group would be confused by the other's insistence.

I really wish there was a video of Bubba's speech at the logo unveiling, really puts things into perspective for those who are stuck on supporting a nickname instead of a University regardless of what logo/nickname they have.

 

EDIT: Turns out there is, should start at the relevant point.

You kinda just demonstrated my point...

It makes not a particle of difference whether you or I call them the Sioux or the Hawks, North Dakota, or some combination of the three; as long as we're not fighting over it. I don't get it. You wanna call them the Hawks (the actual nickname), then all the power to you. Wanna call them the Sioux (historic nickname with a storied tradition)? Good for you. Just North Dakota? Great. Letting something as trivial as a nickname divide a fanbase is stupid.

 

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, FGHTNSX Hawkey14 said:

You kinda just demonstrated my point...

It makes not a particle of difference whether you or I call them the Sioux or the Hawks, North Dakota, or some combination of the three; as long as we're not fighting over it. I don't get it. You wanna call them the Hawks (the actual nickname), then all the power to you. Wanna call them the Sioux (historic nickname with a storied tradition)? Good for you. Just North Dakota? Great. Letting something as trivial as a nickname divide a fanbase is stupid.

 

Convenient.