Memorial Stadium

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 hours ago, jdub27 said:

It's a common misconception that there is a significant drop in attendance as the season goes on? Or that they drew 5600 for a playoff game, less than half of what was at their season opener on a Thursday against Duquesne, another game that was an easy win? Or that the regular season finale against UNI drew 5,000 less than the season opener. Yeah, those are "misconceptions"....

First half of the season attendance is well over 10,000 with some games over 15,000 for SDSU; that's more than UND. The 2016 UND playoff game was poorly attended with all things considered (9-2, first DI playoff game INDOORS) and UND choked. 

A lot of confirmation bias here. Bottom line is UND's attendance with their indoor situation has been nothing to write home about.

The Alerus Center just does not allow for a consistently good atmosphere. It provides a climate controlled environment which, I agree with everyone, is very important for UND. After that, though, many aspects could be improved. The lack of endzone seating is part of that. 

[bincitysioux]

On 5/4/2018 at 8:14 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

I don't like the Alerus Center orientation/set-up.

You don't seem to like much at all about UND football lately......................

The Alerus is an excellent facility for the level of football that North Dakota plays at.  

[UND1983]

On 5/5/2018 at 11:26 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

First half of the season attendance is well over 10,000 with some games over 15,000 for SDSU; that's more than UND. The 2016 UND playoff game was poorly attended with all things considered (9-2, first DI playoff game INDOORS) and UND choked. 

A lot of confirmation bias here. Bottom line is UND's attendance with their indoor situation has been nothing to write home about.

The Alerus Center just does not allow for a consistently good atmosphere. It provides a climate controlled environment which, I agree with everyone, is very important for UND. After that, though, many aspects could be improved. The lack of endzone seating is part of that. 

Poorly attended?  The place only seats 12,000+ and there was over 10,000 there.  

Poorly attended is an SDSU playoff game.

[UND-FB-FAN]

38 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Poorly attended?  The place only seats 12,000+ and there was over 10,000 there.  

Poorly attended is an SDSU playoff game.

So if the Alerus Center had greater capacity, then there would be greater attendance? SDSU has early season attendances greater than UND's capacity; that is all I was trying to say. I obviously recongize the late season collapse in attendance. Remember, this whole discussion was largely based on outdoor football in this region; in the fall, it appears SDSU does just fine outdoors. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

8 hours ago, bincitysioux said:

You don't seem to like much at all about UND football lately......................

The Alerus is an excellent facility for the level of football that North Dakota plays at.  

Oh stop it. 

I always have supported and will continue to support UND football. These have always been my thoughts about the Alerus Center. Compared to the pertinent regional rivals (NDSU, SDSU), the Alerus Center arguably has some deficiencies as a DI college football facility. With that said, it also has some very nice features (e.g., connected hotel/restaurants, indoor climate control, concourse size, "catwalk", new HD screens, etc.). 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

On 5/5/2018 at 11:26 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

First half of the season attendance is well over 10,000 with some games over 15,000 for SDSU; that's more than UND. The 2016 UND playoff game was poorly attended with all things considered (9-2, first DI playoff game INDOORS) and UND choked. 

A lot of confirmation bias here. Bottom line is UND's attendance with their indoor situation has been nothing to write home about.

The Alerus Center just does not allow for a consistently good atmosphere. It provides a climate controlled environment which, I agree with everyone, is very important for UND. After that, though, many aspects could be improved. The lack of endzone seating is part of that. 

UND average attendance for all games was 13,917

UND average home attendance was 10, 462

 

2017 SEASON ATTENDANCE

 

Capacity          2017     Attendance

45,807 Rice-Eccles Utah     45,905

12,283 Alerus Missouri St  12,047

10,000 DakotaDome SD       9,645

12,283 Alerus  Mont St       12,342

10,743 Aggie St  UC Davi     9,508

12,283 Alerus N Colorado 10, 234

25,217 Wash-Grizz   Mont  25,085

12,283  Alerus Sac Sate     9,259

21,144 Prov Park Portland 3,002

 8,500  Eccles Col  S Utah  7,641

12,283 Alerus    E Wah       8,427

 

UND attendance should reach capacity with a couple winning seasons.

[darell1976]

3 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

UND average attendance for all games was 13,917

UND average home attendance was 10, 462

 

2017 SEASON ATTENDANCE

 

Capacity          2017     Attendance

45,807 Rice-Eccles Utah     45,905

12,283 Alerus Missouri St  12,047

10,000 DakotaDome SD       9,645

12,283 Alerus  Mont St       12,342

10,743 Aggie St  UC Davi     9,508

12,283 Alerus N Colorado 10, 234

25,217 Wash-Grizz   Mont  25,085

12,283  Alerus Sac Sate     9,259

21,144 Prov Park Portland 3,002

 8,500  Eccles Col  S Utah  7,641

12,283 Alerus    E Wah       8,427

 

UND attendance should reach capacity with a couple winning seasons.

I am sure Memorial never saw games with attendance close to that, that the opponent wasn’t NDSU. Potato Bowl is a big attendance getter but how about Morningside or Augustana in the cold November air blowing from the north with snow being shoveled out of the seats. You are lucky to get 5,000 for that. I loved Memorial Stadium from my first game in 1985 to my last game there in 2000, but the Alerus is a lot better to handle our climate. 

[ND1]

1 hour ago, darell1976 said:

I am sure Memorial never saw games with attendance close to that, that the opponent wasn’t NDSU. Potato Bowl is a big attendance getter but how about Morningside or Augustana in the cold November air blowing from the north with snow being shoveled out of the seats. You are lucky to get 5,000 for that. I loved Memorial Stadium from my first game in 1985 to my last game there in 2000, but the Alerus is a lot better to handle our climate. 

I agree, the hard core fans will attend wherever the game will be played.  The causal fan (my wife) attends all the home games, but would never attend an outdoor game if colder than 70 degrees and the wind blowing more than 10 mph.  Bottom line, indoor stadiums will always attract and be much better attended by the causal fan and therefore more tickets sold.  

 

[darell1976]

2 minutes ago, ND1 said:

I agree, the hard core fans will attend wherever the game will be played.  The causal fan (my wife) attends all the home games, but would never attend an outdoor game if colder than 70 degrees and the wind blowing more than 10 mph.  Bottom line, indoor stadiums will always attract and be much better attended by the causal fan and therefore more tickets sold.  

 

I watched a game against Mankato, I shoveled out my seat and had the best time especially with how loud the crowd was and UND kicking butt. I walked to Memorial Stadium, biked to games the location on campus was a big plus for attractiveness, when it’s 60 above and sunny you don’t want to be indoors at a game, but when it’s 15 and 40mph winds, a dome is a good thing. Both places has its plus and minus. 

[Norhsidepride]

23 hours ago, bincitysioux said:

You don't seem to like much at all about UND football lately......................

The Alerus is an excellent facility for the level of football that North Dakota plays at.  

agreed on both

[JackJD]

On 5/4/2018 at 11:07 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

UND's "indoor attendance" has been nothing to brag about compared to SDSU's recent attendance. All in all, the little town of Brookings has had very good recent outdoor attendance relative to UND (only exception being home playoff games which SDSU typically win). This is a common misconception that people around UND believe. 

I attended one game at UND's Memorial Stadium...1975. UND beat the Jackrabbits 35-14 (revenge for the SDSU 55, UND 6 win in Brookings in 1974 (I had to look at the media guide to be reminded of those results). In those years, the UND v SDSU game usually fell mid-season.  I recall the weather in Grand Forks for the 1975 game was cold and a little windy but there was no snow.  I have not been in the Alerus Center.

Some info on SDSU's stadium, opened in 2016: 

SDSU built its new stadium (completed by 2016 season) to facilitate a growing fan base. The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football. I think SDSU fans overwhelmingly wanted to continue playing outdoor football. The combined season home-game attendance trend line since SDSU moved to D-1 justified building the 19,340-capacity stadium, a $65 million facility. To build an indoor facility that can accommodate the crowds we're getting would have been cost prohibitive. To build an indoor stadium now for under $100 million would have resulted in a seating capacity that could not handle some of the crowds we've had. (When we built the new stadium, SDSU spent more than $100 million in athletic facilities  that year including the indoor practice facility and track.) The revenue stream from the new stadium is easily meeting (and exceeding) projections .  If the growth in the fan base continues, the place will rock no matter the temperature like so many other outdoor stadiums in the country (I'd like to see us do what U of Montana does).

I've missed one home football game in the past 10 year and that was an early-season game and not weather related (somebody was dumb enough to set a wedding on a Saturday in the Fall so I gave my tickets to a good friend). 

The two largest crowds in the first two years of the stadium's life, were both late-season games:  17,730 for Youngstown State on 10/22/16 (of which only a few hundred were YSU fans and the rest were SDSU fans); and 18,130, the stadium record set last season, 11/4/17, for the NDSU game (NDSU had a nice crowd, I'd estimate 1500 to 1800 Bison fans...they'll claim more). We had six regular-season home games and hosted one playoff game in 2016 and six regular-season home games and two playoff games in 2017.  Six of the regular-season games in the past two years had crowds in excess of 15,000. In addition to the YSU and NDSU games mentioned, the third greatest crowd at the stadium was 16,887 against Cal Poly 9/17/16.    

SDSU's stadium was designed for easy expansion on the east side (foundation; footings, in the ground). If we somehow get to the point where we routinely sell out then the capacity will be increased. 

The SDSU stadium facility is available for year-round use. There are meeting rooms including one particularly large room (the "71 Club" during football games)  which is condusive to large events like wedding receptions. The stadium was opened in August of 2016 with a Luke Bryan, Little Big Town concert with about 24,000 in attendance. 

 

[Mama Sue]

I love outdoor football. Memories of going to Memorial Stadium and running to the car at half time... heater on high... putting dry socks on to decrease the chill. That should NEVER be torn down, ever. It is a lovely outdoor facility. Please keep it.

An indoor stadium will never have that feel. I like the  Alerus but the ambiance is not the same.... including that obnoxious music blaring every time play stops... at Memorial you actually turned to the person next to you and talked. The waterpark, hotels, and eateries make the weekend a great experience, I guess. 

This is a money issue....

[Siouxperfan7]

8 hours ago, JackJD said:

I attended one game at UND's Memorial Stadium...1975. UND beat the Jackrabbits 35-14 (revenge for the SDSU 55, UND 6 win in Brookings in 1974 (I had to look at the media guide to be reminded of those results). In those years, the UND v SDSU game usually fell mid-season.  I recall the weather in Grand Forks for the 1975 game was cold and a little windy but there was no snow.  I have not been in the Alerus Center.

Some info on SDSU's stadium, opened in 2016: 

SDSU built its new stadium (completed by 2016 season) to facilitate a growing fan base. The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football. I think SDSU fans overwhelmingly wanted to continue playing outdoor football. The combined season home-game attendance trend line since SDSU moved to D-1 justified building the 19,340-capacity stadium, a $65 million facility. To build an indoor facility that can accommodate the crowds we're getting would have been cost prohibitive. To build an indoor stadium now for under $100 million would have resulted in a seating capacity that could not handle some of the crowds we've had. (When we built the new stadium, SDSU spent more than $100 million in athletic facilities  that year including the indoor practice facility and track.) The revenue stream from the new stadium is easily meeting (and exceeding) projections .  If the growth in the fan base continues, the place will rock no matter the temperature like so many other outdoor stadiums in the country (I'd like to see us do what U of Montana does).

I've missed one home football game in the past 10 year and that was an early-season game and not weather related (somebody was dumb enough to set a wedding on a Saturday in the Fall so I gave my tickets to a good friend). 

The two largest crowds in the first two years of the stadium's life, were both late-season games:  17,730 for Youngstown State on 10/22/16 (of which only a few hundred were YSU fans and the rest were SDSU fans); and 18,130, the stadium record set last season, 11/4/17, for the NDSU game (NDSU had a nice crowd, I'd estimate 1500 to 1800 Bison fans...they'll claim more). We had six regular-season home games and hosted one playoff game in 2016 and six regular-season home games and two playoff games in 2017.  Six of the regular-season games in the past two years had crowds in excess of 15,000. In addition to the YSU and NDSU games mentioned, the third greatest crowd at the stadium was 16,887 against Cal Poly 9/17/16.    

SDSU's stadium was designed for easy expansion on the east side (foundation; footings, in the ground). If we somehow get to the point where we routinely sell out then the capacity will be increased. 

The SDSU stadium facility is available for year-round use. There are meeting rooms including one particularly large room (the "71 Club" during football games)  which is condusive to large events like wedding receptions. The stadium was opened in August of 2016 with a Luke Bryan, Little Big Town concert with about 24,000 in attendance. 

 

Now the facts:

In 2016, SDSU averaged 13753 per game.  Highest attended game was 17730 vs USD. For their one playoff game, they had 6154.  Average attendance from November 1st on, 10775.

In 2017, SDSU averaged 11700 per game.  .  Highest attended game was 18130 vs NDSU.  For  the two playoff games they hosted they had 7518 and 5583 for an average playoff attendance of 6699..  Average attendance from November 1st on was 10246.  If you take out the NDSU game it was 7619.

My point?  SDSU built a stadium way to big for what their fanbase supports.  Sure attendance may have been trending upwards, but no where near filling a 19340 seat stadium.  They have never even come within 1000 of a sellout.  To your point about "The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football", that doesn't really translate to people actually going to the games as shown by your November attendance numbers.  the fact that the last 2 seasons were probably the best teams SDSU has ever had and they can't even fill a third of their stadium for home playoff games says something.  I can't imagine their attendance numbers when they eventually have a sup .500 season. 

SDSU would have been better off building a 14,000-15,000 indoor stadium.  The fact is November/December football outdoors in North Dakota/South Dakota is brital.  There is a reason the other 3 Dakota schools all build indoor facilities.  SDSU wanted the biggest stadium in the MVFC and wanted to be bigger than NDSU.  Sure they got all the money donated so they were able to do it, but I don't think they will every have the consistent crowds to fill the stadium at a near sellout capacity like NDSU or Montana.  

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, Siouxperfan7 said:

SDSU would have been better off building a 14,000-15,000 indoor stadium.  The fact is November/December football outdoors in North Dakota/South Dakota is brital.  There is a reason the other 3 Dakota schools all build indoor facilities.  SDSU wanted the biggest stadium in the MVFC and wanted to be bigger than NDSU.  Sure they got all the money donated so they were able to do it, but I don't think they will every have the consistent crowds to fill the stadium at a near sellout capacity like NDSU or Montana.  

Any indoor stadium would likely be significantly more expensive than what they did though.

[Siouxperfan7]

4 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Any indoor stadium would likely be significantly more expensive than what they did though.

Dana Dykhouse ain't strapped for cash.  He would have kicked in a few more million if they needed it.

[MoSiouxFan]

38 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Now the facts:

In 2016, SDSU averaged 13753 per game.  Highest attended game was 17730 vs USD. For their one playoff game, they had 6154.  Average attendance from November 1st on, 10775.

In 2017, SDSU averaged 11700 per game.  .  Highest attended game was 18130 vs NDSU.  For  the two playoff games they hosted they had 7518 and 5583 for an average playoff attendance of 6699..  Average attendance from November 1st on was 10246.  If you take out the NDSU game it was 7619.

My point?  SDSU built a stadium way to big for what their fanbase supports.  Sure attendance may have been trending upwards, but no where near filling a 19340 seat stadium.  They have never even come within 1000 of a sellout.  To your point about "The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football", that doesn't really translate to people actually going to the games as shown by your November attendance numbers.  the fact that the last 2 seasons were probably the best teams SDSU has ever had and they can't even fill a third of their stadium for home playoff games says something.  I can't imagine their attendance numbers when they eventually have a sup .500 season. 

SDSU would have been better off building a 14,000-15,000 indoor stadium.  The fact is November/December football outdoors in North Dakota/South Dakota is brital.  There is a reason the other 3 Dakota schools all build indoor facilities.  SDSU wanted the biggest stadium in the MVFC and wanted to be bigger than NDSU.  Sure they got all the money donated so they were able to do it, but I don't think they will every have the consistent crowds to fill the stadium at a near sellout capacity like NDSU or Montana.  

I say more power to them.  They undoubtedly have a facility that they can be very proud of and have every right to be.  I personally prefer an indoor facility where the weather isn't a factor for either the players or the fans, but SDSU has built a nice facility that works well for them.

[JackJD]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Now the facts:

In 2016, SDSU averaged 13753 per game.  Highest attended game was 17730 vs USD. For their one playoff game, they had 6154.  Average attendance from November 1st on, 10775.

In 2017, SDSU averaged 11700 per game.  .  Highest attended game was 18130 vs NDSU.  For  the two playoff games they hosted they had 7518 and 5583 for an average playoff attendance of 6699..  Average attendance from November 1st on was 10246.  If you take out the NDSU game it was 7619.

My point?  SDSU built a stadium way to big for what their fanbase supports.  Sure attendance may have been trending upwards, but no where near filling a 19340 seat stadium.  They have never even come within 1000 of a sellout.  To your point about "The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football", that doesn't really translate to people actually going to the games as shown by your November attendance numbers.  the fact that the last 2 seasons were probably the best teams SDSU has ever had and they can't even fill a third of their stadium for home playoff games says something.  I can't imagine their attendance numbers when they eventually have a sup .500 season. 

SDSU would have been better off building a 14,000-15,000 indoor stadium.  The fact is November/December football outdoors in North Dakota/South Dakota is brital.  There is a reason the other 3 Dakota schools all build indoor facilities.  SDSU wanted the biggest stadium in the MVFC and wanted to be bigger than NDSU.  Sure they got all the money donated so they were able to do it, but I don't think they will every have the consistent crowds to fill the stadium at a near sellout capacity like NDSU or Montana.  

With apologies to those who think that facts about SDSU's stadium don't merit much attention on UND's fan message board (and they really don't but I wanted to respond to Superfan since he seems to be such a friendly fellow).

I want to confirm one point in particular: Highest attended home game in SDSU's 2016 season was Youngstown State as I had earlier written. 17,730 on 10/.22/16. It was SDSU's annual "Hobo Day" homecoming. The USD game that season was played in Brookings 11/22/16 before 15,345.  Source:  gojacks.com, football, 2016 season record.  

There's no question that as the weather gets colder, the crowds get smaller. I'm in the camp of those optimists who believe that if we continue to have good success and bring in good opponents, the crowds will show up. Look, I attended December Vikings games at the old Met Stadium when it looked like the crowd was more prepared to go ice fishing than watch football. Those were fun times. I haven't been to a Packers home game but my friends who are Packers fans seem to talk mostly about the coldest game days as being the best.  

Clarification on one other statement:  The $65 million for the stadium was not all donated money. About half was donated and the other approx. half was funded through the sale of bonds. The indoor facility, the Sanford Jackrabbit Athletic Complex, had a cost of about $32 million -- all donations. 

Playoff game attendance has been a mystery to me. No question in my mind the weather along with sometimes unfamiliar foes, and conflicts with Thanksgiving etc. combine to cause poor attendance. Some may also guess that SDSU's football "traditions" prior to moving to Division I were not strong and so the fan support was lacking. I think there's a learning curve. I've been to all football playoff games in Brookings (I live in Watertown) and I'm convinced that if the Jacks can continue to be successful, the crowds will show up. We have fans living in Watertown and Sioux Falls, both less than an hour away, who have climbed on the bandwagon since the transition to Div 1 and are now season ticket holders. That's where I expect a lot of the growth and consistent program support to come from. 

UNDBiz is right: any indoor stadium would have been significantly more expensive than the stadium just completed. 

It's an easy trip from Grand Forks to Brookings...looking forward to seeing the UND fans when UND joins the MVFC in 20-21.

[jdub27]

I don't blame SDSU for building an outdoor stadium, very nice facility and they should be proud of it. That also has nothing to do with my thoughts that UND would be making the absolute wrong choice to do the same.

[JackJD]

6 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I don't blame SDSU for building an outdoor stadium, very nice facility and they should be proud of it. That also has nothing to do with my thoughts that UND would be making the absolute wrong choice to do the same.

I would think the same if I was a UND fan. The final three or four weeks of the football season in Grand Forks compared to Brookings have the potential to be very different.  When UND enters the MVFC, I am sure I will make the trip to Grand Forks and there will be days when I appreciate an indoor game.

[JohnboyND7]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Now the facts:

In 2016, SDSU averaged 13753 per game.  Highest attended game was 17730 vs USD. For their one playoff game, they had 6154.  Average attendance from November 1st on, 10775.

In 2017, SDSU averaged 11700 per game.  .  Highest attended game was 18130 vs NDSU.  For  the two playoff games they hosted they had 7518 and 5583 for an average playoff attendance of 6699..  Average attendance from November 1st on was 10246.  If you take out the NDSU game it was 7619.

My point?  SDSU built a stadium way to big for what their fanbase supports.  Sure attendance may have been trending upwards, but no where near filling a 19340 seat stadium.  They have never even come within 1000 of a sellout.  To your point about "The weather in Brookings in November usually is very tolerable for outdoor football", that doesn't really translate to people actually going to the games as shown by your November attendance numbers.  the fact that the last 2 seasons were probably the best teams SDSU has ever had and they can't even fill a third of their stadium for home playoff games says something.  I can't imagine their attendance numbers when they eventually have a sup .500 season. 

SDSU would have been better off building a 14,000-15,000 indoor stadium.  The fact is November/December football outdoors in North Dakota/South Dakota is brital.  There is a reason the other 3 Dakota schools all build indoor facilities.  SDSU wanted the biggest stadium in the MVFC and wanted to be bigger than NDSU.  Sure they got all the money donated so they were able to do it, but I don't think they will every have the consistent crowds to fill the stadium at a near sellout capacity like NDSU or Montana.  

NDSU went 20 years before consistently selling out the Fargodome. You don't build for now, you build with the future in mind.

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Dana Dykhouse ain't strapped for cash.  He would have kicked in a few more million if they needed it.

It’s a lot more than just a few more million to build an indoor stadium 

[geaux_sioux]

19 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

NDSU went 20 years before consistently selling out the Fargodome. You don't build for now, you build with the future in mind.

That’s not the Grand Forks mindset though.

[UND-FB-FAN]

24 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

That’s not the Grand Forks mindset though.

The recent GF/UND football mindset is to be ecstatic with 75 percent capacity attendance.

When UND is consistently hosting 11k+ on every gameday in the impeccable Alerus Center, then I'll be satisfied.

Hopefully the Alerus Center isn't "too big for what the fanbase supports" ...

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The recent GF/UND football mindset is to be ecstatic with 75 percent capacity attendance.

Are you talking about being happy that it improved from 50% capacity?  Of course there's still greater improvement needed.  You've turned into one of the biggest Debbie Downers on this board.

[Siouxperfan7]

13 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

NDSU went 20 years before consistently selling out the Fargodome. You don't build for now, you build with the future in mind.

I agree that you have to build for the future.  But they may have over estimated by just a bit.  Can't really compare SDSU's situation to NDSU.  NDSU has a metro population of 238,000 compared to Brookings which is about 24,000.  Plus, NDSU football has had a long history of success.  Prior to the Fargodome being built, NDSU had won 8 National Championships, and 25 Conference Championships.  Before the Jacks new Stadium was built, SDSU had won 14 Conference titles and none since 1963 with only one playoff appearance in the history of the program.  

SDSU has built a good program as of late and their facilities are helping that.  All I am stating is they over estimated the number of fans would attend Jacks games, especially later in the year.