darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you comparing what UND Men's Basketball does in recruiting year to year or over 4 years to what Duke and Kansas Men's Basketball do? That can't be right can it? I am giving examples of teams that reload not rebuild. Rebuilding means the cupboard is empty and you need to start over (see UND football), reload means you still have weapons and continue to stay ahead of everyone (see UND women's basketball). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 So we are comparing Jones who has been at UND since DII and using his players to Bubba his first year of coaching using a former coach's players. Let's see UND's Men's Basketball team has started the season missing 95% of its scoring production from a year ago...I would say they are both paddling in the same creek. The other comment I was referring to is that the Big Sky is a bad basketball conference. OK, RPI says it is. The eye test tells me that the Big Sky is a bad football conference right now as well. It wasn't surprising that Montana St. got beat, from what I've seen from Eastern Washington and Montana, they don't look great either. Bad losses are bad losses, no matter when they occur is my point. Year 1 or Year 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Let's see UND's Men's Basketball team has started the season missing 95% of its scoring production from a year ago...I would say they are both paddling in the same creek. The other comment I was referring to is that the Big Sky is a bad basketball conference. OK, RPI says it is. The eye test tells me that the Big Sky is a bad football conference right now as well. It wasn't surprising that Montana St. got beat, from what I've seen from Eastern Washington and Montana, they don't look great either. Bad losses are bad losses, no matter when they occur is my point. Year 1 or Year 9. UND lost 95% of its scoring production yet managed only a 17-17 record. Now you have very young kids, what makes anyone think with time UND will overcome its average persona and win 20 games, get into the dance/NIT and (here's the big one) WIN AN OOC ROAD GAME!!! Are we going to go through the merry-go-round every 4 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I am giving examples of teams that reload not rebuild. Rebuilding means the cupboard is empty and you need to start over (see UND football), reload means you still have weapons and continue to stay ahead of everyone (see UND women's basketball). What do we really know about Women's basketball, this year? You say they've reloaded. But I'm not sure that's the case. I'm not sure we know enough about the fresh faces yet to really know where there at. Plus, most of this teams success this year has been because of players that have already been on the roster. We certainly don't know what's sitting behind Evers- as that depth is a great unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Shouldn't a team reload not rebuild? Kansas reloads, Duke reloads, who rebuilds but a struggling team on a decline. Our football team is rebuilding, our women's basketball team is reloading. If Jones has to rebuild every 4 years then he isn't recruiting the right players. Also considering the facility, the weather and quantity of in state D1 talent and a D1 BB team, NDSU went to the dance its first season of being eligible. I guess that leaves pay and oh yeah coaching!! Mid-majors rebuild, especially low mid-majors. Kansas and Duke?? Are you serious? UND's basketball budget is currently around $1 million. Kansas's is about $8.5 million. Duke's is over $14 million. But yeah, they reload so maybe we should try to do that. The difference in talent pool in the area for women's basketball and men's basketball is huge as well. Makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 What do we really know about Women's basketball, this year? You say they've reloaded. But I'm not sure that's the case. I'm not sure we know enough about the fresh faces yet to really know where there at. Plus, most of this teams success this year has been because of players that have already been on the roster. We certainly don't know what's sitting behind Evers- as that depth is a great unknown. They won on the road, they are ranked, and have done something the men's team hasn't done since DII....beat Omaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 They won on the road, they are ranked, and have done something the men's team hasn't done since DII....beat Omaha. Mid-Major poll really doesn't do a whole lot or count for a whole hell of a lot. Its nice but I'd like to do what SDSU has done.. ranked in the NATIONAL poll, the one that really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You are aware that Women's Basketball and Men's Basketball are quite a bit different? In women's basketball teams can turn it over 30 times and still win the game. As we've seen many many times. I'm not sure I've ever seen that in Men's Basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mid-Major poll really doesn't do a whole lot or count for a whole hell of a lot. Its nice but I'd like to do what SDSU has done.. ranked in the NATIONAL poll, the one that really matters. National would be great but I think it's a great start for a team in its third year post transition. Being in the same poll as a local powerhouse as SDSU is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 You are aware that Women's Basketball and Men's Basketball are quite a bit different? In women's basketball teams can turn it over 30 times and still win the game. As we've seen many many times. I'm not sure I've ever seen that in Men's Basketball. A win is a win and a loss is a loss, at least that's what I, and everyone who follows sports care about. The women are winning and the men aren't, it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 We'd get better bang for our buck by paying for charter flights rather than a new coach, imo . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Boy, we have gotten really spoiled as North Dakota fans if we are viewing the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center as a detriment to the program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 When UND decided to go DI everyone knew that basketball was going to take a beating. No chance of ever winning a national champion (compared to DII), much tougher recruiting, trading one of the top DII conferences for a lower mid-level. I'm not sure where this discussion is leading to - fire the coach, get out of the Big Sky, out recruit Kansas, take money from somewhere at UND and funnel it into MBB? At the end of the day it's a game being played by young adults who are at UND to get an education. It's fine to discuss and share opinions but let's not forget to enjoy the season (win or lose). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 When UND decided to go DI everyone knew that basketball was going to take a beating. No chance of ever winning a national champion (compared to DII), much tougher recruiting, trading one of the top DII conferences for a lower mid-level. I'm not sure where this discussion is leading to - fire the coach, get out of the Big Sky, out recruit Kansas, take money from somewhere at UND and funnel it into MBB? At the end of the day it's a game being played by young adults who are at UND to get an education. It's fine to discuss and share opinions but let's not forget to enjoy the season (win or lose). You are missing the point. When NDSU (a peer institution by any measure) can go to the NCAA tournament twice since becoming playoff eligible (including in their first season of eligibility) and consistently beat and/or gives high-major programs a run for their money, it debunks a lot of the excuses that some in our fan base are making for the Men's program. UND and NDSU have some of the same problems to overcome (weather, geography, one-bid conference affiliation, ect), but only one of these schools is having success and we both know which one it is. While NDSU puts together signature wins and contends for the NCAA tournament, UND works hard to punch their ticket to the CIT. If you don't have a problem with that, that is your perrogative. I for one expect more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 You are missing the point. When NDSU (a peer institution by any measure) can go to the NCAA tournament twice since becoming playoff eligible (including in their first season of eligibility) and consistently beat and/or gives high-major programs a run for their money, it debunks a lot of the excuses that some in our fan base are making for the Men's program. UND and NDSU have some of the same problems to overcome (weather, geography, one-bid conference affiliation, ect), but only one of these schools is having success and we both know which one it is. While NDSU puts together signature wins and contends for the NCAA tournament, UND works hard to punch their ticket to the CIT. If you don't have a problem with that, that is your perrogative. I for one expect more. ^^^^^^this!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Nice flurry here. As long as und has to play all of their non conference games on the road; they will never have a record that some of you want. We have terrible facilities and pay our coaches crap. Recruits see and feel this. Ndsu had a jump on us with the transition to D1. Might have only been a few years but may as well been 20. In this type of market, this is significant. Und will only get a bid to the tourney if they win the BSC tournament and it will be a 16 seed. That goes for any team that wins the conference tournament. OOC doesn't matter in this regard. Jones has had a more than successful transition to the BSC with players no one else wanted. Brewster has done a nice job. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. The mere fact that they can get anybody to play here is nothing short of a miracle much less be competitive. Someone might say that none of these reasons are an excuse but herein lies the problem and that is some folks have these bizarre expectations that are nothing more than a pipe dream.Kansas? Duke? Give me a break. All credibility goes out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Nice flurry here. As long as und has to play all of their non conference games on the road; they will never have a record that some of you want. We have terrible facilities and pay our coaches crap. Recruits see and feel this. Ndsu had a jump on us with the transition to D1. Might have only been a few years but may as well been 20. In this type of market, this is significant. Und will only get a bid to the tourney if they win the BSC tournament and it will be a 16 seed. That goes for any team that wins the conference tournament. OOC doesn't matter in this regard. Jones has had a more than successful transition to the BSC with players no one else wanted. Brewster has done a nice job. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. The mere fact that they can get anybody to play here is nothing short of a miracle much less be competitive. Someone might say that none of these reasons are an excuse but herein lies the problem and that is some folks have these bizarre expectations that are nothing more than a pipe dream.Kansas? Duke? Give me a break. All credibility goes out the window. Who is comparing us to KU and Duke? I said we should reload like KU and Duke not rebuild like the football team. How about reloading like Weber St, better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Nice flurry here. As long as und has to play all of their non conference games on the road; they will never have a record that some of you want. We have terrible facilities and pay our coaches crap. Recruits see and feel this. Ndsu had a jump on us with the transition to D1. Might have only been a few years but may as well been 20. In this type of market, this is significant. Und will only get a bid to the tourney if they win the BSC tournament and it will be a 16 seed. That goes for any team that wins the conference tournament. OOC doesn't matter in this regard. Jones has had a more than successful transition to the BSC with players no one else wanted. Brewster has done a nice job. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. The mere fact that they can get anybody to play here is nothing short of a miracle much less be competitive. Someone might say that none of these reasons are an excuse but herein lies the problem and that is some folks have these bizarre expectations that are nothing more than a pipe dream.Kansas? Duke? Give me a break. All credibility goes out the window. Another person who just doesn't get it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Who is comparing us to KU and Duke? I said we should reload like KU and Duke not rebuild like the football team. How about reloading like Weber St, better? Another person who just doesn't get it. Are you two the same person? Or is darell really doc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you two the same person? Or is darell really doc? No we are not the same person. But we often see eye to eye on things. What is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you two the same person? Or is darell really doc? Are you really shocked someone else besides me sees Jones as a negative? There are more people than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopster Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 In the absence of any inherent advantage or disadvantage relative to other Big Sky Men Hoop Programs than a reasonable expectation would be a mid level Big Sky program. Summit league basketball is a modest step up from Big Sky per Conference RPI rankings. Try comparing NDSU football with UND? Jones is doing Great compared to football. NDSU Basketball is in rebuilding mode also. Fargo/Morehead is a shorter drive for Midwest recruit Player families and also more of a bigger city feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 No we are not the same person. But we often see eye to eye on things. What is your point? Just curious. Posting style I guess. now that I think about it, darell can't be Doc. Doc goes to games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Losing to a bad SUU team on the road in football and at home to a bad Weber St team is troubling as well. I guess we can go round and round on this. We'll see how long it takes bubba to place as high as Jones did in the Big Sky in his first few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you really shocked someone else besides me sees Jones as a negative? There are more people than you think. Not shocked at all. How many do I think? Actually haven't seen many Jones apologists make a case for him. And I've stated numerous times that I'm not a fan. Again, as others have said in this thread, not being a fan is not the same as calling for jobs, and starting threads after reading boxscores calling for jobs. Its about supporting kids and the programs. Not about pleasing "fans" that demand a "natty" or a team that wins when that fan wants it to win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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