Cutting Sports: Round 2

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure there's a better ROI on WBB and WVB than WIH. 

If we have to have some womens sports that are guaranteed fiscal losers we need to pick the smallest fiscal losers. 

That's the "objective" I'm looking for. 

Now, if WH, because it has facilities (see: MH) is a better fiscal option than < insert sport here > show me the number and I'll gladly listen. 

WH is not about the money it is making, as long as MH is balancing the fulcrum.

The facility is here.

Has potential for the big show.

Equality in women's sports.

Ralph wanted it that way.

Other big contributors want it.

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Other big contributors want it.

Big donors want it? OK. Then .... 

 

[UNDvince97-01]

1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Objectively, MH & WH play in The Ralph and The Ralph makes money. It was bought and paid for before the first puck was dropped, go figure.

The Ralph loses money on Womens Hockey.  They'd be more profitable without it.

20 minutes ago, nodakvindy said:

Womens hockey can win a national championship and produce Olympians.  That is a level of media exposure the other two cannot reach.  With better marketing it has revenue potential.  Cutting it would be like cutting womens basketball in the mid 80s.  I do think a coaching change is probably due.

With our Olympian twin sisters, who are/were great, we didn't even make the final 4 did we?  Correct me if I' wrong.  That was the peak.

There is zero chance of revenue potential.  How would you offset 2 million dollars of operating budget when you are bringing in around $20,000 or so in revenues?

7 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

WH is not about the money it is making, as long as MH is balancing the fulcrum.

The facility is here.

Has potential for the big show.

Equality in women's sports.

Ralph wanted it that way.

Other big contributors want it.

Title IX is not an issue for cutting womens hockey.  Fallacy.  It can be done.  I promise.

Who are these big contributors?  There are none.  Not even Marvin Windows.  Who else?

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Big donors want it? OK. Then .... 

 

Most donations that go to the U don't go to the athletic department, they go to the academic side. But UND having sports is a helpful motivator in acquiring donations, helps keep people connected to the U. This never shows up in "Show me the Money" in the A Dept. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

3 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

The Ralph loses money on Womens Hockey.  They'd be more profitable without it.

With our Olympian twin sisters, who are/were great, we didn't even make the final 4 did we?  Correct me if I' wrong.  That was the peak.

There is zero chance of revenue potential.  How would you offset 2 million dollars of operating budget when you are bringing in around $20,000 or so in revenues?

Title IX is not an issue for cutting womens hockey.  Fallacy.  It can be done.  I promise.

Who are these big contributors?  There are none.  Not even Marvin Windows.  Who else?

Everyone knows that WH doesn't take in enough money at the door to cover their own expenses.

[UNDvince97-01]

Just now, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Everyone knows that WH doesn't take in enough money at the door to cover their own expenses.

Understood.  But it's so bad in the red with no ROI is my point.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

6 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

Understood.  But it's so bad in the red with no ROI is my point.

Ever really wonder why Pres. Kennedy said WH was off the table with MH, basketball,. and football a couple months ago?

It sure wan't about ticket sales at the WH games.

[UND GUY]

26 minutes ago, nodakvindy said:

Womens hockey can win a national championship and produce Olympians.  That is a level of media exposure the other two cannot reach.  With better marketing it has revenue potential.  Cutting it would be like cutting womens basketball in the mid 80s.  I do think a coaching change is probably due.

 

New here. I see & hear this false argument a lot. 

There are what, 30 women's hockey teams right now. Women's hockey is in it's infancy like women's basketball in the '80's? But there were 200ish men's basketball teams in the mid-80's for comparison's sake. There are about 60 men's hockey teams right now.

That's what we have to look forward to? The growth potential there is extremely limited.

So no those two aren't similar in the least. The opportunity for exposure is not there. At all.

Another argument is that youth girls hockey is so big around here. The numbers sure don't say that. There's 1 HS varsity team in GF between the 2 HSs. In the state are there 10 HS girls hockey teams?

The math doesn't add up in almost all areas for women's hockey. It sure doesn't add up on the accounting ledger.

Go Sioux

[Cratter]

Let's say women's swimming and diving plus women's soccer have the same scholarships and yearly expenses as women's hockey.

Which do you cut?

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Hypothetical here:

If our A Dept receives $5M a year in donations?

If our Academic side of U get $50M in donations a year?

If U gets $20M a year towards buildings?

If our A Dept. looses $3M a year?

WHAT DO WE DO????            WE PLAY BALL!!!!!!

[UNDvince97-01]

37 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Let's say women's swimming and diving plus women's soccer have the same scholarships and yearly expenses as women's hockey.

Which do you cut?

I think there's potential that swimming and diving might get a shot in the arm because of the Summit.  This is purely conjecture, but who knows if that was a caveat for joining the Summit maybe?  

Womens soccer is fully funded on schollies (12 I believe) but is a drop in the bucket budget-wise compared to WH.

I cant recall the total budgets for soccer and womens S&D combined, but Id imagine WH is more. 

You probably know my answer.

[UNDvince97-01]

54 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Ever really wonder why Pres. Kennedy said WH was off the table with MH, basketball,. and football a couple months ago?

It sure wan't about ticket sales at the WH games.

Because he was given bad information, just like Ed Schafer.

[darell1976]

Since the Summit League sponsors swimming wouldn't that save us money in that sport? I just hope they don't cut too many sports that hurts the school's membership.

[UND-1]

7 hours ago, Cratter said:

Let's say women's swimming and diving plus women's soccer have the same scholarships and yearly expenses as women's hockey.

Which do you cut?

As much as I would hate to take away 10-12 scholarship opportunities for Canadian/European players, who will more than likely leave once done, I would say WH.  

 

[gfhockey]

Wh hasn't doesn't crap since it's started except drain the hudget

 

 have they only been to big tourney once???? Out of 30 teams and the way we fund should be dang near every year

 

cut it 

[UNDBIZ]

9 hours ago, nodakvindy said:

Womens hockey can win a national championship and produce Olympians.  That is a level of media exposure the other two cannot reach.  With better marketing it has revenue potential.  Cutting it would be like cutting womens basketball in the mid 80s.  I do think a coaching change is probably due.

 

There is no potential for media exposure with WIH.  Nobody cares about WIH, regardless of olympians.

9 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Ralph wanted it that way.

Source?  You keep saying this with nothing to back it.

8 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Everyone knows that WH doesn't take in enough money at the door to cover their own expenses.

WIH doesn't make enough money to cover the cost of selling and collecting tickets.

8 hours ago, Cratter said:

Let's say women's swimming and diving plus women's soccer have the same scholarships and yearly expenses as women's hockey.

Which do you cut?

WIH.  Assuming those programs combined cost the same as WIH, roster size of S&D and Soccer combined = more students = more money for UND.

[Siouxperman8]

I just don't see WIH getting cut.  GF is a hockey town, UND is a hockey school and because of that it would be hard to sell with Title IX.  Regardless if whether or not we need it for Title IX compliance, the perception of not valuing Women's hockey in GF would be hard to overcome.

[Siouxphan27]

1 minute ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I just don't see WIH getting cut.  GF is a hockey town, UND is a hockey school and because of that it would be hard to sell with Title IX.  Regardless if whether or not we need it for Title IX compliance, the perception of not valuing Women's hockey in GF would be hard to overcome.

The perception of not valuing women's hockey in grand forks can be seen every other weekend with the 11500 empty seats at the Ralph; the community doesn't value it, women clearly don't value it so how can it be a title IX sacred cow?  If cut, there should be no complaining from a community that refuses to support a sport this expensive for UND.  

[homer]

8 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I just don't see WIH getting cut.  GF is a hockey town, UND is a hockey school and because of that it would be hard to sell with Title IX.  Regardless if whether or not we need it for Title IX compliance, the perception of not valuing Women's hockey in GF would be hard to overcome.

Fan support would not suffer if it was gone.  

[Siouxperman8]

Just now, homer said:

Fan support would not suffer if it was gone.  

No argument here.  I just think the backlash would be more than the administration would be willing to take on for the reasons I stated above.

[gfhockey]

Maybe they could just cut budget? Obviously the euro playas can't get it dine

 

 stick to more local playas

 

cut salaries as the performance isn't there

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

No argument here.  I just think the backlash would be more than the administration would be willing to take on for the reasons I stated above.

Schlossman would be very loud on Twitter and in the Herald.  

Will WIH be cut?  Probably not.  Should WIH be cut?  Yes.

[gfhockey]

Maybe they could just cut budget? Obviously the euro playas can't get it dine

 

 stick to more local playas

 

cut salaries as the performance isn't there

[UNDvince97-01]

8 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

No argument here.  I just think the backlash would be more than the administration would be willing to take on for the reasons I stated above.

Backlash from who though? Another presumptuous fallacy.

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, UNDvince97-01 said:

Backlash from who though? Another presumptuous fallacy.

Schlossman and the Herald would certainly make a stink of it.  Wouldn't affect the writing of checks to UND though.