If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?

[siouxkid12]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

I asked the same thing.  I'm curious if he's referring to overall athletics budget or even overall school budget, in which case he's still wrong.

must be on something...

[jdub27]

15 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

UND probably has a higher hockey budget because of donations, however UND has a budget that is about the same as Tech or MNSU. I'm not trying to diminish the Status of UND's program, UND Hockey is to college hockey what Alabama or Ole Miss is too college football. I just don't want us to get too high on the proverbial horse. Lest we forget that just a few years ago UND was a D2 school in every sport except hockey.

Donations aren't figured into individual sport's expenses. Below are the actual numbers for the last 3 reported years (2012-2014). UND also has a lower tuition than the other two, meaning that MTU and MNSU have a larger dollar amount in the their budget made up of scholarship money.

2012
UND - $2.7 million
MTU - $2.0 million
MNSU - $1.8 million

2013
UND - $4.6 million
MTU - $2.1 million
MNSU - $1.7 million

2014
UND - $3.1 million
MTU - $2.2 million
MNSU - $1.8 million

Because of some "noise" in 2013 of what appears to be some extra stuff attributed to UND's hockey budget, that is a little bit of an outlier. Just taking a glance, it is pretty safe to say UND's average hockey budget is well over 50% higher than MNSU and just about 50% higher than MNSU. So no, not really the same.

 

[Cratter]

And I'd have to imagine those numbers will have a greater discrepancy with FCOA.

[Siouxphan27]

2 hours ago, Gopher Fan said:

Also, if BU upgraded fencing from club to varsity status joining Ohio State, Penn State, & Northwestern, the  B1G could add MIT & Johns Hopkins as fencing associate members (fencing only has one division) to begin sponsoring that sport as well like the ACC.

#butfencing

sorry, couldn't resist. 

[siouxkid12]

 

1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

Donations aren't figured into individual sport's expenses. Below are the actual numbers for the last 3 reported years (2012-2014). UND also has a lower tuition than the other two, meaning that MTU and MNSU have a larger dollar amount in the their budget made up of scholarship money.

2012
UND - $2.7 million
MTU - $2.0 million
MNSU - $1.8 million

2013
UND - $4.6 million
MTU - $2.1 million
MNSU - $1.7 million

2014
UND - $3.1 million
MTU - $2.2 million
MNSU - $1.8 million

Because of some "noise" in 2013 of what appears to be some extra stuff attributed to UND's hockey budget, that is a little bit of an outlier. Just taking a glance, it is pretty safe to say UND's average hockey budget is well over 50% higher than MNSU and just about 50% higher than MNSU. So no, not really the same.

 

I would be willing to bet UND's hockey budget is about the same as majority of the B10 schools...

[bale31]

On 6/6/2016 at 0:52 PM, UNDBIZ said:

What are the MnSU and UND hockey budgets?

Overall budgets aren't close to the same.

Msu budget- $216 million for 15,426 students

UND budget- $535 million for 14,951

It is an imperfect comparison as und has more research, a law school, etc and msu has some doctorate programs. Just not as many.

[siouxkid12]

28 minutes ago, bale31 said:

Overall budgets aren't close to the same.

Msu budget- $216 million for 15,426 students

UND budget- $535 million for 14,951

It is an imperfect comparison as und has more research, a law school, etc and msu has some doctorate programs. Just not as many.

We are not talking about overall budget because you are comparing apples to oranges. We are comparing hockey budgets.

[UNDBIZ]

4 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

We are not talking about overall budget because you are comparing apples to oranges. We are comparing hockey budgets.

I think he was just confirming that Archy was wrong any way you look at it.

[bale31]

Correct....I was actually thinking of the original claim that the budgets were nearly the same. It appeared to me that the overall budget was the original claim and then hockey budgets after that.

In any case und's budiets dwarf kato. Msu has an average attendance of 4000 and und averages 11500. Msu's tickets are $17 and und, I'm assuming, are close to double that. Mankato has less history and in turn less donors. I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be surprised if kato's budget was even half of und's in terms of hockey.

I love msu hockey as much as anyone, but there is a better chance of St Thomas getting asked to be part of the  big ten than msu. We would add nothing that to the big ten that they don't already have other than a short trip for the gophers. That goes for scsu, Duluth bemidji,uno and anyone else that isn't part of the power 5 conferences too. 

[The Sicatoka]

34 minutes ago, bale31 said:

... there is a better chance of St Thomas getting asked to be part of the  big ten than msu. 

Uh ... well ... um ... yes. 

[bale31]

12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Uh ... well ... um ... yes. 

I only say that because the b10 is all about the money and st Thomas is all about the money. St Thomas endowment is approximately $500+ million while msu's is $50 million.

Agin, I love msu, but our strengths are in educating everyone at a reasonable expense. That's not st thomas. Thats not the u of m. The same can be said of our hockey program. We are work in progress. We aren't a blue blood. We find diamonds in the rough and develop them into something more. That's not the b10.

[siouxkid12]

4 minutes ago, bale31 said:

I only say that because the b10 is all about the money and st Thomas is all about the money. St Thomas endowment is approximately $500+ million while msu's is $50 million.

Agin, I love msu, but our strengths are in educating everyone at a reasonable expense. That's not st thomas. Thats not the u of m. The same can be said of our hockey program. We are work in progress. We aren't a blue blood. We find diamonds in the rough and develop them into something more. That's not the b10.

Whatever you are smoking I want because you are waaaaaaaaaay off topic and you are also talking about MSU hockey on a UND message board...

[ArchyAlum11]

7 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I asked the same thing.  I'm curious if he's referring to overall athletics budget or even overall school budget, in which case he's still wrong.

Overall budget - and I have checked on that, as for the hockey budget I am not sure, I don't have the time to check into that.

[bale31]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

Whatever you are smoking I want because you are waaaaaaaaaay off topic and you are also talking about MSU hockey on a UND message board...

Uh...kato was brought up by someone else. I just explained why that didn't make sense. Seems like a logical jump to me.

[jdub27]

44 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

Overall budget - and I have checked on that, as for the hockey budget I am not sure, I don't have the time to check into that.

I already did the hockey only one but here is how the school's overall budgets compare (based on operating expenses), it still isn't close.

2012
UND - $416 million
MTU - Not available
MNSU - $188 million

2013
UND - $429 million
MTU - $156 million
MNSU - $203 million

2014
UND - $431 million
MTU - $160 million
MNSU - $206 million

2015
UND - $442 million
MTU - $168 million
MNSU - $208 million

[siouxkid12]

9 hours ago, Gopher Fan said:

BU would not leave Hockey East to become an associate member of the B1G, but would jump at the chance to join the B1G as a full non-football member.   A move which surprisingly makes a great deal of sense for both BU and the B1G.

 

How do you know they would jump to be a full member? It seems to me that it is the B10 who wants the Universities badly, not the other way around. If the B10 wants to add another university, they better start rethinking what they are willing to offer.

[The Sicatoka]

9 hours ago, Gopher Fan said:

... join the B1G as a full non-football member.  

I thought all full members of the B1G had to participate in FB. 

[82SiouxGuy]

5 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

How do you know they would jump to be a full member? It seems to me that it is the B10 who wants the Universities badly, not the other way around. If the B10 wants to add another university, they better start rethinking what they are willing to offer.

The Big 10 isn't begging anyone to join. They are making millions of dollars for all the schools right now and have a very steady, very strong membership. They are willing to add only if it makes sense and meets their specific criteria. If they were going to beg any school to join it would be someone like Notre Dame, and they haven't done much to beg Notre Dame. Most schools would beg to join the Big 10. There are very few schools even in the rest of the Power 5 conferences that are as stable and making as much money as the members of the Big 10. Hockey is one of the few areas where the Big 10 is limited, mainly because there are very few Power 5 conference members that have hockey. So the Big 10 might have to do something different if they want more than 6 schools, 8 is a better number for a hockey conference. The obvious solution would be to have current members add hockey, none of them have publicly committed to do so.

[82SiouxGuy]

5 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

I thought all full members of the B1G had to participate in FB. 

"Just because it has been done a certain way doesn't mean that it will always be done that way" or something like that. I think someone has said that before.

[Gopher Fan]

9 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

"Just because it has been done a certain way doesn't mean that it will always be done that way" or something like that. I think someone has said that before.

You are correct. For more than a century the B1G did not sponsor hockey or lacrosse, or have any associate members, now they sponsor both hockey & lacrosse, and have 2 associate members.  I know of no rule banning B1G non-football members.  Since football is where most of the conference money comes from, any non-football school added would have to make substantial contributions in other ways to get a full membership invitation, and understand their share of conference funds would not include any football revenue.

BU meets the B1G academic & research requirements, and would add a top 10 TV market, open up Massachusetts & New England for B1G recruiting, add a team to at least 6 B1G sports with less than 10 teams currently competing, and would make it possible to add B1G women's hockey (by also adding the Syracuse Orange [URA member & former AAU member like Nebraska] as an associate member who would need to move their home games to the 6,159 seat Oncenter War Memorial Arena [home of the AHL's Syracuse Crunch] just off of campus, instead of their own 350 seat Tennity Ice Skating Pavilion which they use currently).  A member share of B1G revenue, even without any football money, would be far more than BU's current Patriot League money.

[JohnboyND7]

15 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

How do you know they would jump to be a full member? It seems to me that it is the B10 who wants the Universities badly, not the other way around. If the B10 wants to add another university, they better start rethinking what they are willing to offer.

....you serious, Clark? 

[Gopher Fan]

1 hour ago, JohnboyND7 said:

....you serious, Clark? 

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but the B1G does not need to add any members full or associate.  Financially they are doing quite well as they are now, and they are competitive in most sports.  Adding a new member to any conference has to be mutually beneficial.  If you are talking about adding either BU or North Dakota to the B1G as associate members for hockey, I'm not sure it would be beneficial to either BU or ND, other than to be grouped with Johns Hopkins & Notre Dame.  But a full membership for either school would mean a huge increase in sports revenue, national name recognition, increased endowments, better recruiting options, and better scheduling options.  North Dakota is located in a state half the country ignores, and BU lives in the shadow of Harvard, MIT, Boston College, & U Mass.  I have to believe both would jump at the chance to improve their status if given the opportunity. 

And yes my last name is Clark.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 hour ago, Gopher Fan said:

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but the B1G does not need to add any members full or associate.  Financially they are doing quite well as they are now, and they are competitive in most sports.  Adding a new member to any conference has to be mutually beneficial.  If you are talking about adding either BU or North Dakota to the B1G as associate members for hockey, I'm not sure it would be beneficial to either BU or ND, other than to be grouped with Johns Hopkins & Notre Dame.  But a full membership for either school would mean a huge increase in sports revenue, national name recognition, increased endowments, better recruiting options, and better scheduling options.  North Dakota is located in a state half the country ignores, and BU lives in the shadow of Harvard, MIT, Boston College, & U Mass.  I have to believe both would jump at the chance to improve their status if given the opportunity. 

And yes my last name is Clark.

 

Good God the elitism is strong with this poster. You realize you live in Minnesota right? It's all fly over country.

[Gopher Fan]

2 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Good God the elitism is strong with this poster. You realize you live in Minnesota right? It's all fly over country.

Its not elitism, its simply the truth. People on both coast almost totally ignore both Dakotas among other states.  Minnesota isn't regarded much better, but we can't be completely ignored with a power 5 university, multiple pro teams, and a top 15 TV market.  Half the time when you start talking about Boston U, other people think your talking about Boston College.  Being a member of the B1G would improve the status of either North Dakota or Boston U.

[ted2you]

Am I being stupid or what?   I have assumed this posting has always been UND joining the B10 as an associate member to hockey exclusively.  So are we talking about full-membership admittance to the B10?   If that were the case UND would be stupid not to join....  But, it is a crazy proposition, while I have no love for the B10 and/or elitism, but how could UND afford to join...  The facilities would never pass B10 standards other than hockey.   Yeah, I could just see it, the Gophs would go from the "big house" to    Allerus.   Perhaps we should propose a Co-op program, NDSU football and UND Hockey, (tongue firmly in cheek) and they might let is in the front door.    IMHO we are fine in the NCHC.