Fetch Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 David Davidson: NCAA is nickname 'villain' - and others are, too By David Davidson Today at 4:45 a.m. Email News Alerts DEVILS LAKE - I am sorry, but Herald letter-writer John Johnson is more than half wrong ("NCAA is not villain in 'nickname' issue," Page A4, Jan. 22). The NCAA Executive Committee is just one of the villains in this issue. Furthermore, there is but one part of Johnson's statements about UND and the NCAA that is correct. That is the fact that both the university and the NCAA have made millions off of the Fighting Sioux name and logo, but they did not share any of that money with the tribes. And even this is not completely true, because after the 1969 sacred ceremony with the exchange of gifts - the honorable use of the name in return for educational opportunities - which under American Indian customs lasts until the end of time, the university went from 30 Native students a year to more than 400 a year. UND became known for being the major university with the most Native programs in the nation. The name and logo brought worldwide recognition to the otherwise obscure university, in other words. And both the university and the Sioux benefited from this, as did other American Indians. There are many advantages for UND to be part of NCAA Division I, and Johnson correctly states a number of conditions that can be found in the NCAA Constitution. But he does not cite one on American Indian names and images, simply because there is none. There never has been one! Read the NCAA Constitution and bylaws; I have. You will find nothing on names and images. Likewise, Johnson's statement that UND "was not able to get support of a sufficient number of tribal councils" is absolutely false. Just ask Florida State, Central Michigan, the University of Utah, Mississippi College and Catawba College, each of which kept their nicknames with the approval of only one tribe. (San Diego State University didn't need even one tribe's approval for its name, the Aztecs.) UND always has had one tribe's approval, dating back to Spirit Lake's participation in the 1969 Ceremony and including the 2000 official tribal resolution, the 2008 flag ceremony, the 2009 Spirit Lake vote and the 2009 Spirit Lake Official Resolution of Perpetual use. In short, UND was singled out through fabrications and distortions. The NCAA Executive Committee did this with help from leaders in the North Dakota University System. Retiring the Sioux name required the NCAA to change its standard from "a namesake tribe's approval" -; which UND had from Spirit Lake - to requiring approval from multiple tribes. This could not have been accomplished without the cooperation, participation and full knowledge by some in the state's university system. The settlement/agreement with the NCAA turned North Dakota's winning lawsuit against the NCAA into the guaranteed retirement of the nickname. Johnson talks about respect, apparently wishing to speak over the American Indians who have spoken for themselves and who have voiced support by an 80 percent to 90 percent margin for the continued use of names and images. Johnson's last paragraph - in which he asks, "How many remember when UND was the Flickertails?" - offers the biggest laugh. I am 70 and a lifelong North Dakotan, but I did not know of the Flickertails until recent years. UND's teams have always been "Sioux" or "Fighting Sioux" to me. There is but one reason to adopt a new name at this time: to drive a stake in the heart of the former name and image as well as the Sioux people, and to try to get North Dakotans to forget the deceit that brought about this defeat. http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/op-ed-columns/3665661-david-davidson-ncaa-nickname-villain-and-others-are-too 3 Quote
Popular Post UNDBIZ Posted January 28, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2015 Didn't read the whole thing, but I think it's fantastic that David Davidson responded to John Johnson's letter.... 5 Quote
UNDBIZ Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I am 70 Decided to take the time to skim it. The above phrase is the only thing that really made sense. Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Decided to take the time to skim it. The above phrase is the only thing that really made sense. I thought it was a good reply to John Johnson's article , which was a fluff piece that put words in people's mouths, with no facts. Quote
scpa0305 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Decided to take the time to skim it. The above phrase is the only thing that really made sense. It makes complete sense. It also seems factual. Can anything be done to save the old nickname at this point....no. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Can anything be done to save the old nickname at this point....no. That needs repeating. 1 Quote
UNDBIZ Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 The name and logo brought worldwide recognition to the otherwise obscure university, in other words. The name and logo didn't win the national championships, start the aviation school, or fund the InMed program. UND always has had one tribe's approval, dating back to Spirit Lake's participation in the 1969 Ceremony and including the 2000 official tribal resolution, the 2008 flag ceremony, the 2009 Spirit Lake vote and the 2009 Spirit Lake Official Resolution of Perpetual use. Unfortunately, Spirit Lake refused to confirm that approval in 2005 when it was needed. The settlement/agreement with the NCAA turned North Dakota's winning lawsuit against the NCAA into the guaranteed retirement of the nickname. What proof is there that UND was winning the lawsuit? Johnson talks about respect, apparently wishing to speak over the American Indians who have spoken for themselves and who have voiced support by an 80 percent to 90 percent margin for the continued use of names and images. I believe the Spirit Lake vote was closer to 65-70%. There is but one reason to adopt a new name at this time: to drive a stake in the heart of the former name and image as well as the Sioux people, and to try to get North Dakotans to forget the deceit that brought about this defeat. Well I guess that's one way to look at it. Both were fluff and short on facts. Above are a few issues in this piece. I hate that the ncaa took away our name, and in a sense, our school's identity. However, I will not support wallowing in self-pity for the next 30 years in an effort to prove a point to a bunch of people (ncaa) who stopped paying attention several years ago. 3 Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Of course all of us UND fans were dissapointed when the Fighting Sioux name was retired. But we must remember what cost it would have been to the University and the Athletic Department and its teams had we kept the name. Big Sky President Fullerton said that they had concerens with UND having the Fighting Sioux name. Said it would affect our membership into the conference. Also, there is no gaurantee that the NCAA wouldn't come down harder in the future and ban all native american names no matter if you had tribal approval or not! Now sure if we were still the Fighting Sioux today, many people would be happy. But at what cost would it have been to the school and the teams. Imagine playing the the Great West for basketball and football. And who knows where for other sports. It would have been a disaster. So while there was probably more that could have been done in the past in regards to our relationship with the 2 tribes in the state, but the contreversy would have been a black could hanging over the University and its athletic teams. Yes is sucked seing the name go, but I think that if you step back and look at it now that we are a couple years removed, I hope most see that it was the right decision. 2 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 We can cry over spilled milk. We can find something else to drink. Your call. Quote
scpa0305 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Of course all of us UND fans were dissapointed when the Fighting Sioux name was retired. But we must remember what cost it would have been to the University and the Athletic Department and its teams had we kept the name. Big Sky President Fullerton said that they had concerens with UND having the Fighting Sioux name. Said it would affect our membership into the conference. Also, there is no gaurantee that the NCAA wouldn't come down harder in the future and ban all native american names no matter if you had tribal approval or not! Now sure if we were still the Fighting Sioux today, many people would be happy. But at what cost would it have been to the school and the teams. Imagine playing the the Great West for basketball and football. And who knows where for other sports. It would have been a disaster. So while there was probably more that could have been done in the past in regards to our relationship with the 2 tribes in the state, but the contreversy would have been a black could hanging over the University and its athletic teams. Yes is sucked seing the name go, but I think that if you step back and look at it now that we are a couple years removed, I hope most see that it was the right decision. Doubt it. 1 Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Good article and the nerves are still raw...I can only hope for the full destruction of the NCAA when the Big 5 Football divisions decide to ditch it. Sour Grapes, yah, but so what? 1 Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 We can cry over spilled milk. We can find something else to drink. Your call. Don't you have someone else to bother with your lessons in life? Seriously, we all get it that you don't give a crap about the nickname and never really did..so why don't you get over it and move on? Try posting on a topic about how everyone needs to move on and then you and Daryl and UNDBiz can go fill it up with your surrender rationalizations. Quote
Teeder11 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Don't you have someone else to bother with your lessons in life? Seriously, we all get it that you don't give a crap about the nickname and never really did..so why don't you get over it and move on? Try posting on a topic about how everyone needs to move on and then you and Daryl and UNDBiz can go fill it up with your surrender rationalizations. I have no idea what the level of Sic's reverence toward the nickname was at any time in his life (and I suspect he loved and still loves it), but from what I gather from his posts on this message board, his interest in, respect for, and adoration for UND and its athletes is seldom matched. 2 Quote
Fetch Posted January 28, 2015 Author Posted January 28, 2015 Not to mention his condescending & know it all attitude Quote
Chewey Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Of course all of us UND fans were dissapointed when the Fighting Sioux name was retired. But we must remember what cost it would have been to the University and the Athletic Department and its teams had we kept the name. Big Sky President Fullerton said that they had concerens with UND having the Fighting Sioux name. Said it would affect our membership into the conference. Also, there is no gaurantee that the NCAA wouldn't come down harder in the future and ban all native american names no matter if you had tribal approval or not! Now sure if we were still the Fighting Sioux today, many people would be happy. But at what cost would it have been to the school and the teams. Imagine playing the the Great West for basketball and football. And who knows where for other sports. It would have been a disaster. So while there was probably more that could have been done in the past in regards to our relationship with the 2 tribes in the state, but the contreversy would have been a black could hanging over the University and its athletic teams. Yes is sucked seing the name go, but I think that if you step back and look at it now that we are a couple years removed, I hope most see that it was the right decision. Um. No. At this juncture, however, the right decision is to stay "North Dakota". 1 Quote
Chewey Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Good article by David! I would concur with Bob about the NCAA eventually slouching into the dustbin of history (hopefully). 1 Quote
yababy8 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I love how everyone speaks like it's an absolute positive no chance for any other outcome, a hundred percent guarantee, 0% chance of changing, the truth of all truth, rule of the universe fact that there is no way the University of North Dakota athletics will ever ever ever ever never never never never again be called the Fighting Sioux. 3 Quote
yababy8 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 which way would you all take the bet on that in the next 50 years we get our name back? 1 Quote
yababy8 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I love how everyone speaks like it's an absolute positive no chance for any other outcome, a hundred percent guarantee, 0% chance of changing, the truth of all truth, rule of the universe fact that there is no way the University of North Dakota athletics will ever ever ever ever never never never never again be called the Fighting Sioux. I'm not going to say never but I very rarely use the word never. It's just not smart to do so. I think I've read it a hundred times in the last year on this site and in the press. honestly it's the same stupidity that caused us not to be able to effectively fight to keep our name. Way too many weak sheep in the herd... Quote
Redneksioux Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not going to say never but I very rarely use the word never. It's just not smart to do so. I think I've read it a hundred times in the last year on this site and in the press. honestly it's the same stupidity that caused us not to be able to effectively fight to keep our name. Way too many weak sheep in the herd... Who were the weak sheep? And could you provide examples of a situation that will allow the school to use the fighting sioux/logo again? Quote
johnsowe Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 If everybody cared about the name it would still be here. It's hard to win a battle when you are fighting internal battles as well as outside battles. Quote
Emerald joker Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Um. No. At this juncture, however, the right decision is to stay "North Dakota". Will show them when we win #8 and at least 3/4 or maybe even 90% lol of that arena are chanting "LETS GO SIOUX"!!!!!! 1 Quote
Fetch Posted January 28, 2015 Author Posted January 28, 2015 Yeah an Admin. Who absolutely wanted to save the name would have brought together all the best minds & players to have brain stormed every possibility & formulated the best plans & resources to accomplish the goal - I have no feeling that ever happened 2 Quote
darell1976 Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 If everybody cared about the name it would still be here. It's hard to win a battle when you are fighting internal battles as well as outside battles. The Standing Rock Tribal Council didn't care, thus ending the fight. Quote
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