The Betty Needs a Video Board (or two)

[darell1976]

Does anybody really dispute that long-term, a slightly-over-3000 seat basketball arena isn't going to work for a division I program? It seems to me that there has to be some sort of plan, even if it may not come to fruition any time soon.

Why not? We don't see any attendance problems in basketball. Bedsides NDSU I can't name a game in the Betty that had been ever sold out.

[jdub27]

Does anybody really dispute that long-term, a slightly-over-3000 seat basketball arena isn't going to work for a division I program? It seems to me that there has to be some sort of plan, even if it may not come to fruition any time soon.

I'm wondering if it isn't the almost 12,000 seat arena next door.  Not a fan of it but could very well be what the plan is (scheduling issues aside). 

[UND92,96]

Why not? We don't see any attendance problems in basketball. Bedsides NDSU I can't name a game in the Betty that had been ever sold out.

 

Because I vividly remember the early 1990's. And there were other periods prior to that which I didn't live through, but am aware of. Just because UND basketball has mostly struggled since the mid-1990's doesn't mean 1500 to 2200 per game should be considered acceptable.

[darell1976]

Because I lived through the early 1990's. And there were other periods prior to that which I didn't live through, but am aware of. Just because UND basketball has mostly struggled since the mid-1990's doesn't mean 1500 to 2200 per game should be considered acceptable.

So we should have a 5-7k arena with even more empty seats. You have been to the Alerus right?

[UND92,96]

So we should have a 5-7k arena with even more empty seats. You have been to the Alerus right?

 

Find me a division I school even remotely serious about basketball with an arena that seats 3300. And I'm not talking about what UND needs today. I'm talking about building the program into something like what it was "back in the day".

[SIOUXFAN97]

I'm wondering if it isn't the almost 12,000 seat arena next door.  Not a fan of it but could very well be what the plan is (scheduling issues aside). 

rea-mens and womens hockey

betty-volleyball

hyslop-mens and womens bball

ipf-track and field, with soccer&football practicing as needed

memorial revo/new-football

new soccer/lacrosse/t&f field north of ipf

wellness center-swimming adn diving

ray richards-golf

baseball-drop

 

wishful thinking but doable if faison hits up alumni with money...chipman, fennell, phil, and gfhockey's posse...

[darell1976]

Find me a division I school even remotely serious about basketball with an arena that seats 3300. And I'm not talking about what UND needs today. I'm talking about building the program into something like what it was "back in the day".

When was the last time UND had a product that was selling out the Betty consistantly. We had good crowds in the Hyslop era but nothing recently. Maybe if UND was creating an attendance nightmare like the REA, or even the Alerus prior to the Muss era then maybe there would be a "need" for more seats at the Betty.

[UNDBIZ]

When was the last time UND had a product that was selling out the Betty consistantly. We had good crowds in the Hyslop era but nothing recently. Maybe if UND was creating an attendance nightmare like the REA, or even the Alerus prior to the Muss era then maybe there would be a "need" for more seats at the Betty.

 

I believe UND92,96 is looking towards the future, not just next year.... maybe not even 5 years from now.

[UND92,96]

Just for the sake of comparison, all three of the other Dakota division I schools will have arenas within the next few years which seat between 5700 and 6500. It is my hope that UND will eventually have something close to that in terms of capacity. 

[darell1976]

I believe UND92,96 is looking towards the future, not just next year.... not even 5 years from now.

if that's the case a 5-7k arena would be good.

[82SiouxGuy]

i don't disagree with you on most of this other than you comparing hyslop to a crappy big box fast food joint like mcdonalds....

Didn't compare Hyslop to a fast food joint.  I was talking in general about replacing buildings rather than remodeling.  I don't see Hyslop being torn down.  I believe that they plan to use Hyslop as the center of the Physical Education department.  I don't see basketball going back to that building.  If they remodel it will be more cosmetic than structural, which means much less will be needed for asbestos or lead abatement.  Other programs like Wisconsin and Ohio State have facilities that are shared for hockey and basketball.  The combination of the Ralph, the Betty and the Olympic rink could be used to accommodate all programs.  I don't know if we will see another building any time soon.

[ArtVandalay]

The size of the Betty is fine. See St Mary's University which is one of the best mid major programs in the country. They play in a 3500 seat gym. But, they fill it up. Great environment. All we need is improved seating on the baselines and a nice scoreboard with video hanging from the ceiling. Figure out a way to get students in the seats and you have a great D1 basketball gym.

The current scoreboard/video situation is pretty bad.

[Sioux_FF]

 

I also find it odd, that a University- the flagship school in North Dakota, which has athletics, has not added any of it's own additional new buildings with the exception of the Indoor Performance Facility...since who knows when.  That does seem a bit odd.  Obviously there was time when the state did build athletic buildings.. Hyslop, Memorial...apparently those days are long past.

:

 SIOUXFAN97, on 28 Oct 2014 - 11:27 AM, said

 

what kind of bugs me about some of the ad's that have come and gone over the years is where is the long term planning on facility improvements?

 

alerus-city paid

rea-ralph paid

betty-ralph paid

kraft field-city/park board paid?

choice-city/park board paid

apollo-city/park board paid

 

I was part of a tour of the Betty and Ralph a few years ago that my employer arranged for some out of town visitors.  Someone asked the tour guide how the Betty was paid for.   She said it is commom mis-perception that Ralph or the REA paid for the Betty.   She said it wasn't true and UND took a loan of over 7 million and was paying off the Betty out of athletic department revenues. It was named in honor of Betty, but the Engelstad family wasn't involved in paying for it.   I think if you look back, even in this forum, you'll see that is the case.

 

Not sure on whose property the Betty sits...UND or REA.  But, for the expense of the building at least, the Betty was a UND project.

[Cratter]

I'm pretty sure UND can't take out a loan to build buildings. But the Ralph can and I believe that was the case.

[the green team]

 

:

 

I was part of a tour of the Betty and Ralph a few years ago that my employer arranged for some out of town visitors.  Someone asked the tour guide how the Betty was paid for.   She said it is commom mis-perception that Ralph or the REA paid for the Betty.   She said it wasn't true and UND took a loan of over 7 million and was paying off the Betty out of athletic department revenues. It was named in honor of Betty, but the Engelstad family wasn't involved in paying for it.   I think if you look back, even in this forum, you'll see that is the case.

 

Not sure on whose property the Betty sits...UND or REA.  But, for the expense of the building at least, the Betty was a UND project.

 

umm, I'm going to say no...and echo the previous response. 

[niouxsiouxfan]

Find me a division I school even remotely serious about basketball with an arena that seats 3300. And I'm not talking about what UND need today. I'm talking about building the program into something like what it was "back in the day".

  

I believe UND92,96 is looking towards the future, not just next year.... maybe not even 5 years from now.

Last couple years recruits have been talented athletes. Next years crop looks same. The year after looks promising. UND is building something nice. Should fill The Betty. Upgrade that; go to 4000+ seats, new video board(s), and whatever else can get done to it. Pick few dates out of the year to use the Ralph, its been done before. Oh, and get a better marketing team! UND will continue to get better recruits and bring back tradition. Then, rebuild Hyslop. But something needs to be done to update the Betty. It will hurt the program in the long run.

[82SiouxGuy]

 

:

 

I was part of a tour of the Betty and Ralph a few years ago that my employer arranged for some out of town visitors.  Someone asked the tour guide how the Betty was paid for.   She said it is commom mis-perception that Ralph or the REA paid for the Betty.   She said it wasn't true and UND took a loan of over 7 million and was paying off the Betty out of athletic department revenues. It was named in honor of Betty, but the Engelstad family wasn't involved in paying for it.   I think if you look back, even in this forum, you'll see that is the case.

 

Not sure on whose property the Betty sits...UND or REA.  But, for the expense of the building at least, the Betty was a UND project.

 

According to the ICON website, architect for the project, Ralph Engelstad Arena was the client (http://www.iconarchitects.com/projects/athletics/betty-engelestad.html).  That fits with what I remember.  I believe that REA built the arena.  They wanted the space ready for World Juniors and were able to fast track it in a way that UND probably couldn't.  They also had more freedom to finance it in ways that the State Board of Higher Education may not allow UND to use, like borrowing money for the project.  I am pretty sure that REA pays for the Betty out of building revenues.  Indirectly you could say that UND is paying for the building since they get the profits from REA.

 

UND owns all of the property that REA is built on and that the Betty is built on.  It is leased to REA for a very small amount.

[Smoggy]

Hyslop was fun for basketball in the day, but has anyone actually tried moving around in that place?  The old building is a mess. Training and locker rooms were tiny and so difficult to get from one spot to another.  What I never understood was the phy ed courses using the old original building classrooms when nicer new ones sat un-used by the multipurpose gym.  Memory is fuzzy, but maybe the newer ones were not as big.

[nodak651]

The concourses are better and player areas can be renovated

[jdub27]

I was part of a tour of the Betty and Ralph a few years ago that my employer arranged for some out of town visitors.  Someone asked the tour guide how the Betty was paid for.   She said it is commom mis-perception that Ralph or the REA paid for the Betty.   She said it wasn't true and UND took a loan of over 7 million and was paying off the Betty out of athletic department revenues. It was named in honor of Betty, but the Engelstad family wasn't involved in paying for it.   I think if you look back, even in this forum, you'll see that is the case.

 

Not sure on whose property the Betty sits...UND or REA.  But, for the expense of the building at least, the Betty was a UND project.

 

 

UND did not fund the Betty outside of the land that it sits on.  The Ralph and the Betty are both owned by the non-profit "UND Sports Facilities Inc".  The balance sheet from the tax return for this entity shows a loan balance of $3.5 million dollars at the end of 2013, which is what remains from what was used to fund the building of the Betty (as a non-profit the tax returns are publicly viewable online).  The repayment for that comes out of operations of the two buildings.  I've also heard Jody speak and he confirmed this is how it works as well.

 

As previously stated, UND is typically not able to take out loans to fund facilities and would have needed to have all funds in place and then approval from the SBoHE and legislature before beginning the project.  They were able to skip that step because of it being built "outside" of UND's overseeing.

[UND-FB-FAN]

https://hlc.und.edu/Shared%20Documents/CHAPTER-6-Resources-Planning-Institutional-Effectiveness/Cr5-065-Athletics-Master-Plan.pdf

Great link.

If UND athletics is to stick with this (not considering timetable or financial requirements), the general order of funding allocation should be:

1) High Performance Center Phase II

2) Betty Sioux Center Electronics (scorer's table and center-hanging electronic scoreboard/display).

3) Memorial Stadium Renovation??

[UNDBIZ]

Great link.

If UND athletics is to stick with this (not considering timetable or financial requirements), the general order of funding allocation should be:

1) High Performance Center Phase II

2) Betty Sioux Center Electronics (scorer's table and center-hanging electronic scoreboard/display).

3) Memorial Stadium Renovation??

 

One thing about the plan renderings that catches my eye is the outdoor football and track practice area south of the stadium and IPF.  Is there really a need for an outdoor practice field in addition to an outdoor stadium (or in this rendering/dream scenario, a stadium with a removable roof)?  I'd think that area would be better used as additional parking, nothing fancy, even a gravel lot would do.

[82SiouxGuy]

One thing about the plan renderings that catches my eye is the outdoor football and track practice area south of the stadium and IPF.  Is there really a need for an outdoor practice field in addition to an outdoor stadium (or in this rendering/dream scenario, a stadium with a removable roof)?  I'd think that area would be better used as additional parking, nothing fancy, even a gravel lot would do.

Currently it is a grass field south of the stadium and artificial turf in the stadium.  Allows the team to prepare on whichever surface they will be playing on that week.

[UNDBIZ]

Currently it is a grass field south of the stadium and artificial turf in the stadium.  Allows the team to prepare on whichever surface they will be playing on that week.

 

Ah that makes sense.  Never mind.

[ArtVandalay]

Video board....in HS gym.....in South Dakota.

http://twitter.com/jhoeck/status/529788391135518721