UND vs. MSU 'Cats on 09/27

[geaux_sioux]

You are talking about a ball control offense that gets first downs to sustain drives which takes time off the clock and keeps the D off the field. Reality alert.........UND has shown zero ability to do that to date. Maybe this Saturday will be different but UND went 3 and out how many times last Saturday? That didn't protect the D one bit. I get you are the eternal optimist but seriously?!?! If UND goes 3 and out 8 times Saturday they will lose by 30+...plain and simple.

But in terms of physical recovery for the defense 3 and a half min of rest and coaching is much more useful than 45 seconds of rest and coaching between series.

[geaux_sioux]

Call me crazy but maybe Rudolph knows more about football than all of us. Maybe he's got a whole lot up his sleeves like Vigen did every year with NDSU. Why show his entire playbook in the first four games of the year? He didn't need to. Perhaps he wants to wait until 1. The players are able to execute the whole offense and 2. He needs to unveil his entire offense. Maybe he wants to throw some major wrinkles late in the season to help us get some unexpected wins? Why would he do that against Stony Brook? My bet is he's just waiting to pounce. Will it be this year even? Maybe not, but I bet he'll use more of the playbook as the year goes on and the games get more important. In the mean time there's no point in putting everything he's got on film for the top BigSky teams to prepare against. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Oxbow6]

The promblem is that you do not or will not see the big picture.  It's is the entire philosophy that has been implemented.  You may not like it and it isn't working well from an offensive standpoint, but we would be 0-4 if we had been trying to chuck it around on first down.  The QB/WR play isn't consistent enough to try throwing the ball much more which would lead to turnover and more time for the opposing offenses to attack a defense that has played well this year. 

 

 

Big picture....again I'm not suggesting we throw it 55 times like Muss did, but the offensive philosophy is completely a 180 with personal not geared for pounding it 40+ times a game.  What did we throw it last game? 9 times?  How about a happy medium even if it's 2 to 1 run vs.pass?  Outside of 1 big play last week, UND ran 40+ plays for less than a 2 yard average.  Now are any BS defenses going to be as good as SB's D from last week...apparently not according to most here but the BS offenses will be much much better.  UND will have to score points to even be competitive in the BS week in and week out. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.  If UND has 200 yards of total offense and 7 first downs on Saturday or next Saturday they will get beat by 30+.  The defense has been impressive for the most part this year but to think they'll hold most BS teams to 17-21 points is very optimistic and even if they do UND has to score 17 which it hasn't done yet.

[Irish]

No alternatives?  Play action on first down?  Play action on 2nd down?  Quick 3 step drop on first or second down?  Screen pass or bubble pass?  Off tackle on first and second down every series setting up 3rd and long has provided this offense with what?  You are right...obviously I don't understand.  It will be interesting to see what happens on both sides of the ball the next 2 Saturdays.

 

Gotta go......Irish wants a rematch in Madden.

Sorry I'm late - making a plate of nachos

I don't think Oxbow and I are advocating chucking it 50 times, but I am not in favor of the entire game being one and two yard rushes either.  I think this is the week we see what Rudolph is made of - 4th week into his new (and not very complicated) system, playing a team that apparently can be scored on, playing a game in which we almost certainly will need some offensive points.  He's had time to review the film of the Stony Brook game.  Hopefully he can come up with a plan that mixes up some plays and gives us a chance to move the ball.  While 3 rushes and punt takes more time off the clock that 3 incompletes, it is not a strategy to run the clock.  If we try this with any other team than Stoney Brook we will get our butts handed to us.  Remember, we were one 90+ yard pick six from losing.  We have to show some effort at moving the ball beyond the one yard plunge.  The Lennon years we are all so nostalgic for had a much more balanced and attacking offense than this.  

[darell1976]

63-20 in GF, and 55-10 in Bozeman.....UND needs a perfect game or it will turn ugly. That 55-10 came 1 week after UND upset Montana. 

[UND92,96]

Call me crazy but maybe Rudolph knows more about football than all of us. Maybe he's got a whole lot up his sleeves like Vigen did every year with NDSU. Why show his entire playbook in the first four games of the year? He didn't need to. Perhaps he wants to wait until 1. The players are able to execute the whole offense and 2. He needs to unveil his entire offense. Maybe he wants to throw some major wrinkles late in the season to help us get some unexpected wins? Why would he do that against Stony Brook? My bet is he's just waiting to pounce. Will it be this year even? Maybe not, but I bet he'll use more of the playbook as the year goes on and the games get more important. In the mean time there's no point in putting everything he's got on film for the top BigSky teams to prepare against. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I tend to agree with this. St. Cloud had some very good offenses when Rudolph was there. Of course, having Heckendorf, Birkel, etc. didn't hurt either. I am quite sure the UND coaches know they will need far more points than what have been scored the first four games in order to remain competitive with the Big Sky's best teams, and that running almost exclusively between the tackles isn't likely to be particularly effective with the current personnel, so I expect a far more diverse offense now that Big Sky play is starting. Will it be any more effective? We'll see Saturday.

[Irish]

Call me crazy but maybe Rudolph knows more about football than all of us. Maybe he's got a whole lot up his sleeves like Vigen did every year with NDSU. Why show his entire playbook in the first four games of the year? He didn't need to. Perhaps he wants to wait until 1. The players are able to execute the whole offense and 2. He needs to unveil his entire offense. Maybe he wants to throw some major wrinkles late in the season to help us get some unexpected wins? Why would he do that against Stony Brook? My bet is he's just waiting to pounce. Will it be this year even? Maybe not, but I bet he'll use more of the playbook as the year goes on and the games get more important. In the mean time there's no point in putting everything he's got on film for the top BigSky teams to prepare against. Maybe I'm wrong.

If he's playing the long game, it must be really long because he has shown absolutely nothing of this plan so far.  I am sure Rudolph is a very knowledgable coach.  You don't get to where he is without knowing a lot of football.  My point is that even the smartest coaches sometimes have huge blind spots - especially about their "systems", and can be unusually stubborn.  You see it at all levels.  The best coaches have a system they like and recruit for, but have some flexability for change, because even the best offense or defense can be planned against and beaten.  Unless you have a Bison type line, offenses need to keep defenses off balance and guessing, or at the very least keep them honest.  Like I said in my last post - time to see what Rudolf is made of.

[SooToo]

Is Stony Brook in the Big Sky now? If you read my post, comments referred to league play and were not a critique of the SB game play. With the current o line play and inexperience in the receiving corps, we didn't have much success throwing the ball at Mizzory State. Good thing the ground game was there to dig us out of a hole.

[gundy1124]

Call me crazy but maybe Rudolph knows more about football than all of us. Maybe he's got a whole lot up his sleeves like Vigen did every year with NDSU. Why show his entire playbook in the first four games of the year? He didn't need to. Perhaps he wants to wait until 1. The players are able to execute the whole offense and 2. He needs to unveil his entire offense. Maybe he wants to throw some major wrinkles late in the season to help us get some unexpected wins? Why would he do that against Stony Brook? My bet is he's just waiting to pounce. Will it be this year even? Maybe not, but I bet he'll use more of the playbook as the year goes on and the games get more important. In the mean time there's no point in putting everything he's got on film for the top BigSky teams to prepare against. Maybe I'm wrong.

I have had this feeling about Rudolph, too.  It's just been so so ugly though thus far.  Patience is a virtue with him?? 

[The Sicatoka]

“I’m really excited to have Paul Rudolph join the staff. He has been a successful coach in the upper Midwest for a number of years,” Schweigert said. “He has a great offensive mind, but he also understands how a team’s offense fits into the total scheme of how you are going to be successful on the football field." 

 

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=58642&SPID=6399&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=209357077&Q_SEASON=2014 

 

 

In Bubba's world, how are you going to be successful on the football field? Defense and ball-control offense. 

 

You run the parts of your offense that you can execute and keep control of the ball. 

[homer]

But in terms of physical recovery for the defense 3 and a half min of rest and coaching is much more useful than 45 seconds of rest and coaching between series.

If the offense gets no first downs, the actual amount of time the defense is on the sidelines is the same. Only things that change that is a turnover. Play clock is the same whether the game clock is running or stopped.

[IAAfan]

Fortunately for MSU, our defense has always been much better against traditional pro-set offenses.  It's when we run into teams that run the spread, or even the option, where the offense has speed all over the field, we struggle.  It is hard to judge the MSU defense so far, as ASU is a very fast FBS bowl team, UCA gained most of their yards against our 2nd string (only a drive or two) and in the 4th while playing catchup, and EWU is the #1 offense in the country.  Black Hills State did gash us for like 270 yards in the first half but gained only 9 after halftime.  

 

Our safety play has underwhelmed, our defense end play hasn't been mediocre to subpar, and our LB corp is playing just above average, when they should be one of the best corps in the nation with the talent and experience they bring.  

 

I think UND can move the ball a bit just because our defense isn't playing at a high level right now, but I don't think they will be able to score that much.

[BigGame]

If the offense gets no first downs, the actual amount of time the defense is on the sidelines is the same. Only things that change that is a turnover. Play clock is the same whether the game clock is running or stopped.

It's more about taking time off the clock and giving the opposing offense less time to run plays.  Ideally we get a few first downs but to this point the offense hasn't shown much ability. 

[BigGame]

It still amazes me that some don't get it.  The offensive coordinator works for the head coach and needs to work within the philosophy of the head coach.  I am pretty sure we found out how Muss wanted to do things after he became head coach, but before that he needed to fall in line with the philosophy of Dale Lennon which is pretty much in line with what Bubba is doing now.  After Lennon left the defense suffered and the offense was pass happy.  We are currently in the process of completely flipping what we do. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

Fortunately for MSU, our defense has always been much better against traditional pro-set offenses. It's when we run into teams that run the spread, or even the option, where the offense has speed all over the field, we struggle. It is hard to judge the MSU defense so far, as ASU is a very fast FBS bowl team, UCA gained most of their yards against our 2nd string (only a drive or two) and in the 4th while playing catchup, and EWU is the #1 offense in the country. Black Hills State did gash us for like 270 yards in the first half but gained only 9 after halftime.

Our safety play has underwhelmed, our defense end play hasn't been mediocre to subpar, and our LB corp is playing just above average, when they should be one of the best corps in the nation with the talent and experience they bring.

I think UND can move the ball a bit just because our defense isn't playing at a high level right now, but I don't think they will be able to score that much.

I do remember NDSU running all over Montana State in 2010 with a pro-style offense, but I can say with certainty UND's running game is no 2010 NDSU. It is where UND eventually wants to get to, however.

[UND-FB-FAN]

It still amazes me that some don't get it. The offensive coordinator works for the head coach and needs to work within the philosophy of the head coach. I am pretty sure we found out how Muss wanted to do things after he became head coach, but before that he needed to fall in line with the philosophy of Dale Lennon which is pretty much in line with what Bubba is doing now. After Lennon left the defense suffered and the offense was pass happy. We are currently in the process of completely flipping what we do.

This is correct. North Dakota college football teams (UND and NDSU) have never won a championship at any level with a pass-happy offense. Our recruiting area favors tough defense and physical running offenses. Mussman didn't get it; Bubba does. We're following the blueprint that worked in 2001 for UND.

[geaux_sioux]

If the offense gets no first downs, the actual amount of time the defense is on the sidelines is the same. Only things that change that is a turnover. Play clock is the same whether the game clock is running or stopped.

Spread it out teams don't really milk the play clock

[homer]

Spread it out teams don't really milk the play clock

Last season we did not run a hurry up offense and we ran a lot if 4 WR sets.

[gundy1124]

It still amazes me that some don't get it.  The offensive coordinator works for the head coach and needs to work within the philosophy of the head coach.  I am pretty sure we found out how Muss wanted to do things after he became head coach, but before that he needed to fall in line with the philosophy of Dale Lennon which is pretty much in line with what Bubba is doing now.  After Lennon left the defense suffered and the offense was pass happy.  We are currently in the process of completely flipping what we do. 

So Muss's offenses under Lennon did 3 yards and a cloud of dust all game long.......good one.  Anyway, I totally get what UND is doing, I just didn't think it would be so painful to witness.

[gundy1124]

Now Hedberg.....he was terrible as an offensive coordinator and wasn't allowed to call anything.

[gundy1124]

Now Hedberg.....he was terrible as an offensive coordinator and wasn't allowed to call anything.

Except for our favorite Sioux/Bison game in the Siouxdome.  Hedberg installed a swing pass to Phillip and split Jimmie out more to get him the ball that game.  Best game Hedberg ever called.

[Oxbow6]

It's more about taking time off the clock and giving the opposing offense less time to run plays.  Ideally we get a few first downs but to this point the offense hasn't shown much ability. 

 

 

Oh....I get it NOW!   UND's offensive philosophy of pounding the ball without success and not will to try anything else is just an attempt to try to keep the losing points spread palatable by limiting the other team's offense.  If UND gets a few first downs that's just gravy.  Actually having or expecting the offense to score points at any point in a game...meh.

[BigGame]

So Muss's offenses under Lennon did 3 yards and a cloud of dust all game long.......good one.  Anyway, I totally get what UND is doing, I just didn't think it would be so painful to witness.

I don't think I said that but it explains how he played with a lead and the offenses back then were a lot more capable.  Sure we need some more balance but not at the expense of the defense and turnovers and so on.  I am all for passing more and creating at least a little balance with the offense, but I really don't see any benefit to it until the team shows improvement and consistency with the passing game. 

 

The defense certainly isn't going to shut down some of these really good offenses so we need to see more out of the offense but I didn't think we would be able to beat the top half of the big sky this season anyway. 

[BigGame]

Oh....I get it NOW!   UND's offensive philosophy of pounding the ball without success and not will to try anything else is just an attempt to try to keep the losing points spread palatable by limiting the other team's offense.  If UND gets a few first downs that's just gravy.  Actually having or expecting the offense to score points at any point in a game...meh.

Try to take a realistic view of what the offense seems capable of

[BigGame]

Oh....I get it NOW!   UND's offensive philosophy of pounding the ball without success and not will to try anything else is just an attempt to try to keep the losing points spread palatable by limiting the other team's offense.  If UND gets a few first downs that's just gravy.  Actually having or expecting the offense to score points at any point in a game...meh.

Our completion percentage really shows we should just drop back and pass.   I would like to see more passing as bad as our passing game is right now it would be counter productive.  With our QB we would just turn in over more and maybe complete 1 of 4 passes.  It needs to be part of the offense at some point but I don't think UND is capable at this point.