All-Time Greatest UND Hockey Player

[UNDPUCKS]

Yep, I figured it out, I was #24 I believe.

[AZSIOUX]

best sioux player and maybe top 3 ever in college is tony hrkac. Runner up at UND Zach Parise. J panzer third

Best sioux player to ever lace them up overall is Johnny Toews. He's on a different hockey planet than most in the world

[ScottM]

No Panzers? 

 

It might also be better to break them down by position.  Comparing Belfour to Parise makes no sense. 

[fightingsioux4life]

I feel like Jeff Panzer could also make a run at being placed on this list.  228 career points.

I agree with you 100%, but Gopher trolls will just come on here and call him a "dime a dozen player".

[fightingsioux4life]

And anyone that votes for Ralph Engelstad because of REA is totally missing the point of the poll.

[MafiaMan]

This why I picked Greg Johnson.

Nice! Very under-rated player simply because of UND's poor record during his time in Grand Forks. He had a key role with the Red Wings as well...a shame that he was traded a year or two before Detroit won the Stanley Cup.

[808287]

One for George Pelawa.

 

Before you get all "Never played a game" on me just remember...without playing a single game beyond high school, he changed the game of hockey forever.

 

It was not a 'big guy' sport until George stepped on the ice at the Minnesota HS tourney and drug five bloomington jefferson jaguars up and down with him, scoring seemingly at will.  A man amongst boys.

 

And he was a Sioux commit.  So...one for George Pelawa.

[sioux rube]

No Archibald?

[Northcountry]

These things are very difficult to quantify as no universal metric exists that takes into consideration differences in rules, enforcement of those rules, quality of facilities, quality of opponents, etc., but I believe that James Patrick was responsible for a rules change that in effect eliminated 3 on 3 play due to penalties.  Watching him control the game in those situations was a thing of beauty.  Patrick was also synonymous with championship, if I recall right he had a string of championships that spanned 4 consecutive teams he played on.  Greg Johnson was the exemplar of the spirit of Sioux hockey, a great player who brought maximum effort every game for four seasons even though the teams he played on were not championship caliber.  My 2 cents and my 2 picks.

[farce poobah]

Great idea for a late August doldrums discussion.

 

I vote for Mark Taylor.

 

Played four seasons.   That was a differentiator for me over a long list of superb 2-year players (Hrkac, Parise, Toews...).

 

#2 on the UND all-time scoring list.  

 

Leader on and off the ice (could say the same for Doug Smail), and absolutely instrumental in breaking the title droughts in 1979 (WCHA, 12 years) and 1980 (NCAA, 17 years).    

 

Killed penalties; the pairing of Smail and Taylor on the PK might be the best (at least in the 40 years I've been watching UND hockey).   

 

Excellent situational awareness ... saw the entire ice. 

 

All that said, I would have no problem voting for anyone on the above list.

[Sodbuster]

One for George Pelawa.

 

Before you get all "Never played a game" on me just remember...without playing a single game beyond high school, he changed the game of hockey forever.

 

It was not a 'big guy' sport until George stepped on the ice at the Minnesota HS tourney and drug five bloomington jefferson jaguars up and down with him, scoring seemingly at will.  A man amongst boys.

 

And he was a Sioux commit.  So...one for George Pelawa.

Geez, if that guy had lived to play on the 86-87 team.....OMG!

[farce poobah]

These things are very difficult to quantify as no universal metric exists that takes into consideration differences in rules, enforcement of those rules, quality of facilities, quality of opponents, etc., but I believe that James Patrick was responsible for a rules change that in effect eliminated 3 on 3 play due to penalties.  Watching him control the game in those situations was a thing of beauty.  Patrick was also synonymous with championship, if I recall right he had a string of championships that spanned 4 consecutive teams he played on.  Greg Johnson was the exemplar of the spirit of Sioux hockey, a great player who brought maximum effort every game for four seasons even though the teams he played on were not championship caliber.  My 2 cents and my 2 picks.

 

My best birthday present ever:  December 3, 1982.

 

Sioux Gophers, in Minneapolis, game tied late.   Brawl breaks out ... somehow UND gets two extra major penalties. (cue halo)  But under the rules then, since both teams had 2 guys with double minors, it was preceded by 4 minutes of 3x3.  

 

Patrick pulls the puck of Jon Casey's pads, skates the whole way down the ice, and scores.   UND withstands 30 seconds of 5x3, and wins 5-4.   (If he hadn't scored, Minnesota would have had 4:30 of 5x3 in overtime ... not quite certain death but pretty da## close, until Patrick wins the game for UND.)

 

Yeah I was lubricated and loud, and lucky to get out of ye olde Williams Arena in one piece.

 

Like I said, best birthday present ever.

[Hayduke]

College itself:  Hrkac.  That one magical year was enough to put this one over the top.   

 

Overall:  Toews.    Captaining two Stanley Cup teams.  That does it.  

[Big A HG]

EDIT:  Before I wrote this, I missed Farce Poobah's post...my apologies Farce!

 

If you ask me, the perfect candidate would meet the following criteria:

 

-won at least one title

-played at least 3 years, 4 preferred

-captain preferred, alternate captain acceptable

-accomplished something amazing while at UND (record points, Hobey, or other, etc)

-post-UND accomplishments are a bonus, though not required

 

 

I would narrow this field down to just a few names.  

 

Greg Johnson - Meets all criteria except winning a title.  Played four years, was a captain (twice), set team record for career points, and played in the NHL

 

Bob Joyce - Played three seasons, was captain of the 1986-87 title season, has the highest single-season goal scoring record at UND (which is tied for 7th in the nation...and is the most recent 50+ goal scorer in the NCAA), and also played in the NHL

 

Karl Goehring - Though he wasn't a captain (he was a goalie) despite being one of the undisputed leaders on the team, he won one title, played in another, and though I'm too lazy to look, I believe he owns many of the all-time UND records for goaltending.  He played four years, went on to a professional career, and even came back to UND as a coach. 

 

Mark Taylor - Gave four years, won a title in 1980 as Captain, had a nice pro career in the NHL.  Though he doesn't have any amazing feats as a player now, he WAS the all-time leading scorer before Greg Johnson.  He definitely had some great stats including a 92 point season his senior year (the Hobey Baker award was awarded for the first time the following season...Mark certainly would have been a favorite in the 1979-80 season had it been around...he outscored the '81 winner, Neal Broten, by 21 points and won a title as captain that year).

 

 

I'd say Mark Taylor would be my personal pick.  I think had the Hobey been around one year earlier he would have won and would be the only one to meet every bit of criteria on the list.  He gave all four years to UND, won a title, was captain, played in the NHL and was a certain Hobey candidate had it been around.

 

One other note:

Greg Johnson 272 career points at UND 

Mark Taylor 265 career points at UND

Not much disparity...

[iluvdebbies]

Nice post!!!

[Hayduke]

Mark Taylor is a great pick.  I wavered between Hrkac and Taylor.  

[Big A HG]

Mark Taylor is a great pick.  I wavered between Hrkac and Taylor.  

 

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from Tony Hrkac.  He's a Sioux legend.  But, he wasn't really a leader either year he was there.  He only played two years and was essentially booted off the team after his first year.  Then he got his head straight, came back, and had the greatest season in college hockey history.  Does one season make up for the lack of the other areas?  That's not for me to say.  Everyone has their own opinion.  He no doubt had the greatest single season in team history, but as an overall UND career, I think a few guys best Tony Hrkac.

[Fetch]

I really wish we could have seen George play

[fightingsioux4life]

I really wish we could have seen George play

I think that team would have gone undefeated (48-0) if he had lived.

[Big A HG]

Something tells me that even if the 86-87 team had Wayne Gretzky, they still would have lost that game against American International.  If they lost that game even with just the roster they had, I'm not sure anyone else would have helped.

[Goon]

I played football with big George, the guy was a beast...

[fightingsioux4life]

Something tells me that even if the 86-87 team had Wayne Gretzky, they still would have lost that game against American International.  If they lost that game even with just the roster they had, I'm not sure anyone else would have helped.

I was there; that was truly hard to watch.

[jk]

Comparing eras is difficult, especially when you try to quantify things.  Just looking at 80s highlights tells you how far goaltending has come since then, which accounts for some of the point totals at the time.  Which means I'm down to the eye test.  Since I just missed Taylor, Smail and Patrick, I can't consider them. 

 

The two guys I saw who most dominated the competition were sophomore Hrkac (my choice as the best), who consistently, shift after shift, made people look silly, and senior Jeff Panzer, who not only knew where the puck was going but was fast enough to be there before anyone else.  The funny thing about the knock on Panzer, that he had so many assists because he played with such good linemates, is that as good as those guys were, he set up a lot more plays that didn't end up in the net.  Had he played with a finisher like Bucks or Duncan, he would have had a hundred points that year, and Duncan could have approached fifty goals.  Go back and look at the last game of Panzer's career, against BC, and see how many plays he made that game.  (Stop watching about four minutes into the OT). 

 

Of course it's hard to compare goalies and skaters, but the anointment of Toews, who is truly great and always has been super smooth, as the greatest former Sioux considering a complete career, has an argument in Belfour.

[Sodbuster]

Something tells me that even if the 86-87 team had Wayne Gretzky, they still would have lost that game against American International.  If they lost that game even with just the roster they had, I'm not sure anyone else would have helped.

Something always has to remind me of the one of 2 games I got to see that year.

[geaux_sioux]

Hextal hands down. Entertainment value was off the charts.