UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[darell1976]

A core of Idaho, Montana, Montana State, and North Dakota sounds pretty good. I hope it all works out.

That would be good, but just like UND fans in 2008 if said we were joining the BSC in 4 years...I'll believe it when I see it.

[mksioux]

You assume Idaho has a real media. Boise St does, but U Idaho doesn't. The media listens to the AD and believes the AD is giving the facts, but he lsn't necessary being totally truthful. The Big Sky agreement clearly stated Idaho football will be returning in the "near future" "presumably" as an FCS team. Idaho was in the Sun Belt once before for football and that was disastrous for both parties. The Sun Belt needs teams to help schedule Appy St, Ga So, and Ga St transition, but once that is done there is no need or desire for Idaho (or NMSU for that matter). Idaho just needs teams to fill out its schedule and the Sun Belt provides that. Idaho has no real future in FBS unless it has regional opponents to get the juices and wallets flowing of Idaho and Spokane area residents. The Big Sky needs a few years to get its act together.

Personally think that there is a contract between the Sun Belt office and Big Sky office, but that would take a whole lot of wrangling and legal manuevers and cost to obtain. I don't want to "out" the plan for the NCAA to stop it. Bison fans reading this don't believe it anyway, so there's no risk they start a letter writing campaign to stop it.

I looked at the Sun Belt agreement again: 2015-6 is an option year with an extension to 2017-18 if warranted.

Even if the Idaho newspapers aren't that curious, you'd at least think an Idaho fan or blogger would care to look into it. It seems to me that if Idaho's contract with Sun Belt has a definite end to it in a few short years, that would be pretty big news. No offense is meant to you, but I can't rely on someone else's interpretation of a contract. I'd actually have to read it myself before I'd believe it.

In any event, you have my interest at least on whether Idaho's relationship with the Sun Belt is long-term. But even assuming you are correct that Idaho football is not going to be in the Sun Belt past the 2017-18 season, that's still a gigantic leap to your theory that the Sun Belt is going to be taking in the Big Sky. An alleged agreement between the Big Sky and Sun Belt is the linchpin of your theory, but nobody knows if there is an actual written agreement? Unless there is a written contract that requires it, I'm quite confident that your theory will not happen. The Sun Belt schools aren't going to take in a bunch of new FCS teams on the other side of the country just to help them out in forming a new FBS conference out of the goodness of their hearts. They would only do so if they had previously contractually obligated themselves.

[Herd]

You assume Idaho has a real media. Boise St does, but U Idaho doesn't. The media listens to the AD and believes the AD is giving the facts, but he lsn't necessary being totally truthful. The Big Sky agreement clearly stated Idaho football will be returning in the "near future" "presumably" as an FCS team. Idaho was in the Sun Belt once before for football and that was disastrous for both parties. The Sun Belt needs teams to help schedule Appy St, Ga So, and Ga St transition, but once that is done there is no need or desire for Idaho (or NMSU for that matter). Idaho just needs teams to fill out its schedule and the Sun Belt provides that. Idaho has no real future in FBS unless it has regional opponents to get the juices and wallets flowing of Idaho and Spokane area residents. The Big Sky needs a few years to get its act together.

Personally think that there is a contract between the Sun Belt office and Big Sky office, but that would take a whole lot of wrangling and legal manuevers and cost to obtain. I don't want to "out" the plan for the NCAA to stop it. Bison fans reading this don't believe it anyway, so there's no risk they start a letter writing campaign to stop it.

I looked at the Sun Belt agreement again: 2015-6 is an option year with an extension to 2017-18 if warranted.

Out of one side of your mouth you are saying that Idaho football will join the Big Sky in FCS. Then out of the other side you are saying that there is a deal for the Big Sky's top teams to join with the Sunbelt. All this while the whole premise of your entire thread is that the Big Sky is going FBS. So which is it? All this while you insist that you are always 100% correct in all your predictionis.

Then you go on weekly tirades bashing NDSU fans for being trolls, while at the same time posting stuff that appears you are begging them to come on this board. You are kind of a mess, let's be honest.

[Siouxperfan7]

I am sure they are all laughing up a storm over a Bisonville about this thread. But wasn't it them who was ripping on the neh sayers on thss site and other UND fans about how rediculous it was for NDSU to go D1 and playing FCS football? A little hypocritical. Not surprised. My response is why not dream big. Do you think anyone 20 years ago thought that our hockey team would ever be playing in a 125+ Million dollar arena in front of 11,000+ fans consistently? No way. The IPF was a rediculous pipe dream to some, but guess what, the shovels are already in thr ground and that thing is currently being built. Does an 18000 seat stadium at Memorial and the opportunity to play in the FBS seem a little crazy and out there? Sure it does. But as you can see history showing, UND athletics has made huge steps in the last 20 years. Anything is possible. Looking forward to what the next 20 years holds.

[darell1976]

I am sure they are all laughing up a storm over a Bisonville about this thread. But wasn't it them who was ripping on the neh sayers on thss site and other UND fans about how rediculous it was for NDSU to go D1 and playing FCS football? A little hypocritical. Not surprised. My response is why not dream big. Do you think anyone 20 years ago thought that our hockey team would ever be playing in a 125+ Million dollar arena in front of 11,000+ fans consistently? No way. The IPF was a rediculous pipe dream to some, but guess what, the shovels are already in thr ground and that thing is currently being built. Does an 18000 seat stadium at Memorial and the opportunity to play in the FBS seem a little crazy and out there? Sure it does. But as you can see history showing, UND athletics has made huge steps in the last 20 years. Anything is possible. Looking forward to what the next 20 years holds.

Exactly, who thought while UND snapped a 12 game losing streak to NDSU that 17 years later we would be invited into the Big Sky Conference and playing Montana. I don't think we will be FBS right away ( a couple years) but it may be a reality around 2020.

[UNDColorado]

I am sure they are all laughing up a storm over a Bisonville about this thread. But wasn't it them who was ripping on the neh sayers on thss site and other UND fans about how rediculous it was for NDSU to go D1 and playing FCS football? A little hypocritical. Not surprised. My response is why not dream big. Do you think anyone 20 years ago thought that our hockey team would ever be playing in a 125+ Million dollar arena in front of 11,000+ fans consistently? No way. The IPF was a rediculous pipe dream to some, but guess what, the shovels are already in thr ground and that thing is currently being built. Does an 18000 seat stadium at Memorial and the opportunity to play in the FBS seem a little crazy and out there? Sure it does. But as you can see history showing, UND athletics has made huge steps in the last 20 years. Anything is possible. Looking forward to what the next 20 years holds.

Well said Siouxperfan. Also, IMHO we missed the boat to move up to FCS when the other Dakota schools did, heck we should have moved up when the Montana's did in the late 70's, and if there is a legitimate opportunity to move up again I would be surprised if our administration let this slip through the cracks.

This is all speculation at this point, but a lot of the things you brought up were once speculation as well.

[darell1976]

Well said Siouxperfan. Also, IMHO we missed the boat to move up to FCS when the other Dakota schools did, heck we should have moved up when the Montana's did in the late 70's, and if there is a legitimate opportunity to move up again I would be surprised if our administration let this slip through the cracks.

This is all speculation at this point, but a lot of the things you brought up were once speculation as well.

Do you or someone know why UND didn't move up in the 70's? Was it other NCC teams or just not a lot of study.

[UNDColorado]

Do you or someone know why UND didn't move up in the 70's? Was it other NCC teams or just not a lot of study.

I do not know why we didn't but I wish that we did. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

[SiouxVolley]

Even if the Idaho newspapers aren't that curious, you'd at least think an Idaho fan or blogger would care to look into it. It seems to me that if Idaho's contract with Sun Belt has a definite end to it in a few short years, that would be pretty big news. No offense is meant to you, but I can't rely on someone else's interpretation of a contract. I'd actually have to read it myself before I'd believe it.

In any event, you have my interest at least on whether Idaho's relationship with the Sun Belt is long-term. But even assuming you are correct that Idaho football is not going to be in the Sun Belt past the 2017-18 season, that's still a gigantic leap to your theory that the Sun Belt is going to be taking in the Big Sky. An alleged agreement between the Big Sky and Sun Belt is the linchpin of your theory, but nobody knows if there is an actual written agreement? Unless there is a written contract that requires it, I'm quite confident that your theory will not happen. The Sun Belt schools aren't going to take in a bunch of new FCS teams on the other side of the country just to help them out in forming a new FBS conference out of the goodness of their hearts. They would only do so if they had previously contractually obligated themselves.

The Sun Belt was down to six FBS schools had the following goals:

Pick and chose FCS schools in its area to go FBS

It didn't want an FBS MVC, and FBS CAA, and an all-star FCS roster like Jacksonville St, EKU, C Ark, Sam Houston, Lamar, Liberty, JMU, Coastal Carolina, Tn-Chatanooga to bypass it and go FBS with the WAC. If the WAC had survived, it would have caused holy hell for the Sun Belt.

Now the Sun Belt can have a bidding war among schools for its remaining slots.

It needed Idaho and NMSU and affiliate members for the short-term, just so it could get Ga So, Ga St, and App St transitioned. It absolutely did not want Idaho long term, as that would make the Sun Belt less desireable long term due to horrible travel. No potential SunBelt member wants to travel to Moscow, Idaho every other year. A trip like that should have a guarantee, not be free to Idaho.

So the Sun Belt made a business decision to kill the FBS WAC (by temporarily accepting Idaho and maybe NMSU), and then promising Idaho a spot in a FBS Big Sky conference.

Idaho's goal were always: stay FBS, and have a regional FBS conference with Montana, Montana St. If it could do anything to elevate the Big Sky (which was acting as a block), that's what it would do. The Big Sky wasn't ready to go FBS right away, but wanted a couple years to prepare. So a WAC - Big Sky merger was talked through at least twice but Big Sky President's didn't feel they were ready. Montana had a scandal on its hands, and Montana State had financial shortfalls, so even the two most capable of FBS weren't ready two years ago.

Denver would not have left an FBS conference. When the WAC agreed to discontinue football (and take low academic and for-profit schools), Denver could no longer tolerate the WAC.

Idaho-Big Sky-Sun Belt "won" the negotiations. The other FCS leagues lost. NMSU is in limbo. Idaho had to win, otherwise it would have been the death of them. NMSU still has a shot at CUSA and the MWC. Idaho had to negotiate a way into a FBS Big Sky: there was no other alternative. Staying in the Sun Belt long-term would just cause Idaho to perpetually bleed cash, and going to FCS would have cause the Idaho admistration to be fired in disgrace.

If you evaluate each parties decision based on what they want, its all very logical and can be predicted.

[RollTribe]

UND in the FBS would be cool, but I don't see how either ND school could feasibly make the transition... Currently, UND's athletic department spends $200k a year more than it takes in, and that's after it gets a $9 million subsidy from the state (half of it's entire revenue comes from a state subsidy). To go FBS would require a new stadium, or a major expansion to the Alerus Center, which was filled to about 15% capacity the last time UND played a football game there so that would be a very tough sales pitch to make. Financially, NDSU is about in the same shape.

Unless a major donor steps in to cut the check, I cannot see UND going to the FBS anytime soon because the ND Legislature would probably laugh either school out of the building if they tried to ask for another $4-5 million a year for athletics when the schools are already having to cut academic spending, and raising tuition every year. I'm a big UND fan and supporter, but I just think this proposition is so far fetched that it is not even worth talking about. I think we need to first field a competitive football team, and get our athletics department to generate a sustained profit before we even consider moving to the next level.

[mksioux]

Pick and chose FCS schools in its area to go FBS

It didn't want an FBS MVC, and FBS CAA, and an all-star FCS roster like Jacksonville St, EKU, C Ark, Sam Houston, Lamar, Liberty, JMU, Coastal Carolina, Tn-Chatanooga to bypass it and go FBS with the WAC. If the WAC had survived, it would have caused holy hell for the Sun Belt.

Now the Sun Belt can have a bidding war among schools for its remaining slots.

It needed Idaho and NMSU and affiliate members for the short-term, just so it could get Ga So, Ga St, and App St transitioned. It absolutely did not want Idaho long term, as that would make the Sun Belt less desireable long term due to horrible travel. No potential SunBelt member wants to travel to Moscow, Idaho every other year. A trip like that should have a guarantee, not be free to Idaho.

So the Sun Belt made a business decision to kill the FBS WAC (by temporarily accepting Idaho and maybe NMSU), and then promising Idaho a spot in a FBS Big Sky conference.

You are forgetting the other possibility that WAC football simply died of natural causes. You assume that all these FCS schools were going to flock to the WAC and immediately transition to FBS. Maybe there weren't enough schools ready to do that and the WAC died because of it. I think you're reading too much into the demise of the WAC being an orchestrated event by the Sun Belt.

Idaho's goal were always: stay FBS, and have a regional FBS conference with Montana, Montana St. If it could do anything to elevate the Big Sky (which was acting as a block), that's what it would do. The Big Sky wasn't ready to go FBS right away, but wanted a couple years to prepare. So a WAC - Big Sky merger was talked through at least twice but Big Sky President's didn't feel they were ready. Montana had a scandal on its hands, and Montana State had financial shortfalls, so even the two most capable of FBS weren't ready two years ago.

I don't doubt this at all. I think the Big Sky did take a serious look at the WAC, but it didn't work out because the Presidents weren't ready to move while the WAC charter was still alive. I also don't doubt that Idaho would like to see the Big Sky go FBS, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

Idaho-Big Sky-Sun Belt "won" the negotiations. The other FCS leagues lost.

You are assuming the Big Sky and the other FCS conferences were playing a game against each other. It's entirely possible that all of them had their chance at the WAC and they all turned it down.

NMSU is in limbo. Idaho had to win, otherwise it would have been the death of them. NMSU still has a shot at CUSA and the MWC. Idaho had to negotiate a way into a FBS Big Sky: there was no other alternative. Staying in the Sun Belt long-term would just cause Idaho to perpetually bleed cash, and going to FCS would have cause the Idaho admistration to be fired in disgrace.

We don't know for a fact that Idaho "won" the negotiations beyond the fact that they found a home for their FBS football program. You assume there is some grand Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement, which you admittedly have no evidence of beyond speculation. It's fun to think about and hope that Big Sky and UND administrators are super-competent and have a master plan. But, again, there is no evidence of that. Maybe you'll find the elusive Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement and have something.

[SiouxVolley]

You are forgetting the other possibility that WAC football simply died of natural causes. You assume that all these FCS schools were going to flock to the WAC and immediately transition to FBS. Maybe there weren't enough schools ready to do that and the WAC died because of it. I think you're reading too much into the demise of the WAC being an orchestrated event by the Sun Belt.

I don't doubt this at all. I think the Big Sky did take a serious look at the WAC, but it didn't work out because the Presidents weren't ready to move while the WAC charter was still alive. I also don't doubt that Idaho would like to see the Big Sky go FBS, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

You are assuming the Big Sky and the other FCS conferences were playing a game against each other. It's entirely possible that all of them had their chance at the WAC and they all turned it down.

We don't know for a fact that Idaho "won" the negotiations beyond the fact that they found a home for their FBS football program. You assume there is some grand Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement, which you admittedly have no evidence of beyond speculation. It's fun to think about and hope that Big Sky and UND administrators are super-competent and have a master plan. But, again, there is no evidence of that. Maybe you'll find the elusive Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement and have something.

Been following conference realignments for 40+ years. More sure of an impending Big Sky FBS move then I was UND going Big Sky. People's opinion here don't matter. Presidents do. All the ingredients are here for a conference FBS upgrade. Normally, a school would have a $50 mill stadium upgrade to go FBS and get a conference invite. The Big Sky is planning on doing the whole conference for nearly that much, and grow into it over time. The MVC could have given their left testicle for a shot at FBS. Idaho stopped it.

[darell1976]

Been following conference realignments for 40+ years. More sure of an impending Big Sky FBS move then I was UND going Big Sky. People's opinion here don't matter. Presidents do. All the ingredients are here for a conference FBS upgrade. Normally, a school would have a $50 mill stadium upgrade to go FBS and get a conference invite. The Big Sky is planning on doing the whole conference for nearly that much, and grow into it over time. The MVC could have given their left testicle for a shot at FBS. Idaho stopped it.

You think it's gonna happen around 2016? I can't see the Alerus expanding or the remodel of Memorial Stadium start that quickly.

[senor_sieve]

We don't know for a fact that Idaho "won" the negotiations beyond the fact that they found a home for their FBS football program. You assume there is some grand Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement, which you admittedly have no evidence of beyond speculation. It's fun to think about and hope that Big Sky and UND administrators are super-competent and have a master plan. But, again, there is no evidence of that. Maybe you'll find the elusive Sun Belt-Big Sky agreement and have something.

as soon as you see his top-secret document, this will all make sense to all of us. as soon as he can share it, which he claims he can't. hey siouxvolley, did your tin foil hat pick up CBSsports last night?

[Dagger]

If UND makes the move to FBS, how quickly would NDSU follow?

[SIOUXFAN97]

saw during the hockey game last night on cbssport that the sunbelt commish says they will add a 12th member by june 1st....siouxvolley who is it gonna be?

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

saw during the hockey game last night on cbssport that the sunbelt commish says they will add a 12th member by june 1st....siouxvolley who is it gonna be?

Liberty.

[mksioux]

Been following conference realignments for 40+ years. More sure of an impending Big Sky FBS move then I was UND going Big Sky. People's opinion here don't matter. Presidents do. All the ingredients are here for a conference FBS upgrade. Normally, a school would have a $50 mill stadium upgrade to go FBS and get a conference invite. The Big Sky is planning on doing the whole conference for nearly that much, and grow into it over time. The MVC could have given their left testicle for a shot at FBS. Idaho stopped it.

Even if everything you say is true, it still requires major investments in a short period of time from multiple schools in the Big Sky to make it happen. It seems UND is probably better positioned than the average Big Sky school to undertake a transition FBS, yet it doesn't seem to me that UND is even close to ready. It needs a lot more money. If there was some massive effort underway to raise money from the alumni to finance this move, we'd probably heave heard of it, at least through the grapevine. 2017 is the magic year according to you. I don't see UND ready for FBS by 2017. And if UND isn't ready, I highly doubt there are enough other Big Sky schools ready to make it a reality. But we'll see I guess. I'd be excited if it were to happen.

[darell1976]

If UND makes the move to FBS, how quickly would NDSU follow?

As fast as Gene Taylor on the phone with a bail bondsman.

[RollTribe]

As fast as Gene Taylor on the phone with a bail bondsman.

Haha!

[Herd]

Been following conference realignments for 40+ years. More sure of an impending Big Sky FBS move then I was UND going Big Sky. People's opinion here don't matter. Presidents do. All the ingredients are here for a conference FBS upgrade. Normally, a school would have a $50 mill stadium upgrade to go FBS and get a conference invite. The Big Sky is planning on doing the whole conference for nearly that much, and grow into it over time. The MVC could have given their left testicle for a shot at FBS. Idaho stopped it.

If adding the Big Sky to FBS doesn't trigger a P5 split, nothing will. I'll believe it when I see it. Your talking about the 6th ranked conf in FCS last year, and some of the tightest budgets in DI. If the entire conf tries to go 85 scholarships it will be a colassal mess of Idaho x13 proportions. And even if the big sky was that stupid, where is there invite? I can't see this happening without significant involvement from both the P5 and the NCAA. This move would significantly circumvent the NCAA's control plan for FBS movement.

[darell1976]

If adding the Big Sky to FBS doesn't trigger a P5 split, nothing will. I'll believe it when I see it. Your talking about the 6th ranked conf in FCS last year, and some of the tightest budgets in DI. If the entire conf tries to go 85 scholarships it will be a colassal mess of Idaho x13 proportions. And even if the big sky was that stupid, where is there invite? I can't see this happening without significant involvement from both the P5 and the NCAA. This move would significantly circumvent the NCAA's control plan for FBS movement.

I don't think the whole conference has to move up but rather a majority. No way Idaho State and maybe Weber St moves FBS and currently UND isn't stadium ready to move up. But if there is a P5 split then some of the top conferences in the FCS could move up either as a whole or a majority.

[Goon]

UND in the FBS would be cool, but I don't see how either ND school could feasibly make the transition... Currently, UND's athletic department spends $200k a year more than it takes in, and that's after it gets a $9 million subsidy from the state (half of it's entire revenue comes from a state subsidy). To go FBS would require a new stadium, or a major expansion to the Alerus Center, which was filled to about 15% capacity the last time UND played a football game there so that would be a very tough sales pitch to make. Financially, NDSU is about in the same shape.

Do we even have the population base for it?

[MafiaMan]

Do we even have the population base for it?

No, no, and no!

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/12/26/moving-was-big-time-mistake-for-umass-football/8Zh7LNm9RkrxgumwLLZOkO/story.html

[chicagolandsioux]

How in the holy heck can all of you guys keep all of this straight? I was trying to follow along and I thought I was reading ancient Greek. LOL