Discontinuing the UND Shuttle Service is a HUGE, UNFORGIVABLE MISTAKE

[gfhockey]

I think ita funny after 82hair got owned he hasnt eeplied lol

[Sioux-cia]

Obviously the shuttles were not intended for me, a young, healthy, female. But in my experience in numerous sporting events, I cannot recall a place other than the Ralph where I have been dropped off at the door, for free. I have a hard time thinking of a sporting event I have attended where you haven't had to walk a few blocks outside in the weather... Duluth, St. Cloud, Wisconsin, Lambeau, Joe Louis Arena...

I don't remember walking the same distance from those arenas you listed as I used to do from the University/Columbia parking lots to the Ralph.

I have a parking pass and I pay dearly for the privilege. AND, gfhockey, I'm NOT a bigwig. I'm just a working stiff that works waaaay more than the 2080 hrs a year that my profession considers fulltime in order to pay for my 'privilege'. So, please, quit with the 'bigwig' crap. You, too, can afford a parking pass if you work your assets off!!!!

[Fetch]

Shut down the 2 bars & put in seats to fund better tv & shuttles - if the bars make more than seats make than its time to spread the wealth for the Fans - bet Ralph would be pizzed about the way things are turning out - name alone would have changed his mind about the entire gift - we owe him a WWRD for every decision

[Sioux-cia]

Shut down the 2 bars & put in seats to fund better tv & shuttles - if the bars make more than seats make than its time to spread the wealth for the Fans - bet Ralph would be pizzed about the way things are turning out - name alone would have changed his mind about the entire gift - we owe him a WWRD for every decision

I read that Ralph made the conscious decision to make this a 'small' arena.

[siouxweet]

I wonder if in doing this UND thinks more people might upgrade their champions club membership to the coach's level to include a parking pass.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

I wonder if in doing this UND thinks more people might upgrade their champions club membership to the coach's level to include a parking pass.

That was my initial fear when I started this thread.

If this is some sort of misguided attempt to drive up season ticket sales/upgraded club memberships, that is deplorable.

And until proven otherwise, I think it's a plausible explanation. Which is sad.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

I have a parking pass and I pay dearly for the privilege. AND, gfhockey, I'm NOT a bigwig. I'm just a working stiff that works waaaay more than the 2080 hrs a year that my profession considers fulltime in order to pay for my 'privilege'. So, please, quit with the 'bigwig' crap. You, too, can afford a parking pass if you work your assets off!!!!

You are coming dangerously close to suggesting that ramp parkers are shiftless and lazy.

In all seriousness, though, this is not about pitting STH/club donors against everyone else. My criticism of the former has been to the extent that there is a collective lack of empathy or consideration for the latter. For fans who cannot afford season tickets, or simply do not want them, the ramp and shuttle were ideal.

Frankly, when ice and snow are falling, I'd gladly trade the proximity of the UND Champions Club executive platinum supreme lot for the shelter of the parking garage. Scraping a quarter-inch or more of solid ice off my car windows is not what I have in mind after the final horn blows.

If you are an REA permit holder/Champion Club donor, bully for you. Same for the 'North Dakota tough' folks who seem to think nothing of exposure, frostbite, and hypothermia. But please don't take a position on this issue because your nonconstructive opinions are meaningless. Consider this an invitation to step away gracefully. I'd prefer to keep this between the ramp users, the UND administrators/bean counters, and anyone who genuinely cares about how UND -- a supposedly "exceptional" institution -- treats its fans.

[southpaw]

I'd prefer to keep this between the ramp users, the UND administrators/bean counters, and anyone who genuinely cares about how UND -- a supposedly "exceptional" institution -- treats its fans.

Clearly, Sioux-cia is no longer allowed to post about this then...

[YaneA]

Ralph fan line responds they will put pressure on UND to bring back shuttle. On going discussion they said.

[Irish]

I didn't see large numbers of elderly or people with disabilities. Actually I saw very few people with disabilities. There were a decent number of families. How many other schools provide shuttle service? You love to rant about how terrible UND is and that they shouldn't have gone DI if they couldn't afford to do the gold plated version, how many other DI programs provide shuttle services for fans? UND has no obligation to provide the shuttles. If you buy a ticket, getting to the game is your responsibility. I'm going to miss the shuttle, but I will find other options.

You, sir, are full of crap

Aparently my Captains Club membership is not enough for me to find a decent parking place or a shuttle ride to the Ralph - This was added to insure that season ticket holders who couldn't afford a parking pass could at least get to the arena - a broken promise in my book. The schools who should provide shuttle services are the people who don't have adaqate parking - I was gladly paying $10 to be taken to the arena in addition to my "donation" and the cost of season tickets. If you aren't corporate you don't count at UND.

[siouxjoy]

Not only that, the ramp is a resource that is already being underutilized. Why have it sit empty on game nights, when the shuttle for years seems to have been a good (if not perfect) complement to game night operations.

There is a difference between having the ramp sit empty ($0 earned) versus running a shuttle & losing money

[siouxjoy]

I pay $300 to park near the building I work at on campus.I have always thought that being able to park on campus for free for hockey games was a bonus, not a requirement. So, for me personally the elimination of the shuttle is unfortunate, but not a traveshamockery.

[Redneksioux]

There is a difference between having the ramp sit empty ($0 earned) versus running a shuttle & losing money

There is a difference. Under-utilization of facilities as well.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

There is a difference between having the ramp sit empty ($0 earned) versus running a shuttle & losing money

What about service on the construction debt or electricity to power the lights? Hell, that thing is ALWAYS losing money. Where's the outrage?

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

I pay $300 to park near the building I work at on campus.I have always thought that being able to park on campus for free for hockey games was a bonus, not a requirement. So, for me personally the elimination of the shuttle is unfortunate, but not a traveshamockery.

So you think we're overreacting? Fine. But are you defending the decision? Are you buying the 'transportation costs and lack of utilization' justification? What are your parking plans this season? Do you have small kids? Are you in good health? Take a stand and have a point!

[siouxjoy]

What about service on the construction debt or electricity to power the lights? Hell, that thing is ALWAYS losing money. Where's the outrage?

Some things are out of our hands. When the permit price went up a few years ago people freaked out plenty. But, lost in all of that was the fact that permits were priced well below a level that could be sustained and utilization was below expectations. The population of UND was surveyed before the ramp was built to find out if the interest/need existed--I know because I was one of the folks surveyed. Apparently enough people stated an interest in using a ramp and they built it. Fast forward a few years and the ramp isn't being utilized as originally thought. Plus there was some extra expenses due to unstable land at the site. Suddenly you have a money pit...what good does getting outraged gain when there is no clear place for blame?

[Sioux-cia]

You are coming dangerously close to suggesting that ramp parkers are shiftless and lazy.

In all seriousness, though, this is not about pitting STH/club donors against everyone else. My criticism of the former has been to the extent that there is a collective lack of empathy or consideration for the latter. For fans who cannot afford season tickets, or simply do not want them, the ramp and shuttle were ideal.

Frankly, when ice and snow are falling, I'd gladly trade the proximity of the UND Champions Club executive platinum supreme lot for the shelter of the parking garage. Scraping a quarter-inch or more of solid ice off my car windows is not what I have in mind after the final horn blows.

If you are an REA permit holder/Champion Club donor, bully for you. Same for the 'North Dakota tough' folks who seem to think nothing of exposure, frostbite, and hypothermia. But please don't take a position on this issue because your nonconstructive opinions are meaningless. Consider this an invitation to step away gracefully. I'd prefer to keep this between the ramp users, the UND administrators/bean counters, and anyone who genuinely cares about how UND -- a supposedly "exceptional" institution -- treats its fans.

Clarification #1 WiSioux didn't think the walk was any further than some other arenas. I disagreed. I think it is.

Clarification #2 gfhockey refers to persons who have parking passes as 'bigwigs'. I disagreed. I'm not any more a bigwig than he is.

Clarification #3 Just because I have a parking permit doesn't mean I don't care or can't have an opinion regarding the cancellation of the shuttle buses. I think it sucks and should resume.

Clarification #4 Just because I have a parking permit don't assume I don't 'genuinely cares about how UND -- a supposedly "exceptional" institution -- treats its fans.'. I'm an alum, I'm a donor and I'm a fan of UND athletic programs.

Oh, and just because I have a parking permit it doesn't mean I don't leave a game and have to scrape ice and snow off my car windows either.

Now, I invite you to step away from this discussion before you insult anymore long time posters who genuinely care about UND and how it treats it's fans!

[siouxjoy]

So you think we're overreacting?

At no point in my posts have I stated that anyone was overreacting.

I was simply stating my personal view of the situation. Please don't misinterpret my posts for more than what they are... just one girl's thoughts.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Now, I invite you to step away from this discussion before you insult anymore long time posters who genuinely care about UND and how it treats it's fans!

It's on, Grampa. 10,593 posts...hasn't anybody taught you what a winking smiley emoticon means?

If you are insulted by anything I've said, tough. Read carefully, and don't go getting defensive...the only party that needs to be defending itself here is the almighty U of ND.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

At no point in my posts have I stated that anyone was overreacting.

Don't pull the "traveshamockery" card and then act all innocent.

[Sioux-cia]

It's on, Grampa. 10,593 posts...hasn't anybody taught you what a winking smiley emoticon means?

If you are insulted by anything I've said, tough. Read carefully, and don't go getting defensive...the only party that needs to be defending itself here is the almighty U of ND.

It's Gramma. And, your smily emoticon was negated by your last paragraph.

[siouxjoy]

Don't pull the "traveshamockery" card and then act all innocent.

[fightingsioux4life]

I didn't see large numbers of elderly or people with disabilities. Actually I saw very few people with disabilities. There were a decent number of families. How many other schools provide shuttle service? You love to rant about how terrible UND is and that they shouldn't have gone DI if they couldn't afford to do the gold plated version, how many other DI programs provide shuttle services for fans? UND has no obligation to provide the shuttles. If you buy a ticket, getting to the game is your responsibility. I'm going to miss the shuttle, but I will find other options.

You should apply for a job with UND relations. You are really good at defending the establishment no matter what the issue is. And since you are so good at accepting boilerplate BS explanations for things, you should at least get paid to dish them out.

This whole "UND has no obligation to do anything for anyone" mentality is 100% unacceptable. This is a publicly-funded institution, but sometimes they don't treat the public like stakeholders, they treat them as replaceable parts (If you don't like it, there's the door, get out). Well, that is what people will do if you spit in their faces enough times.

To paraphrase something you said above, people have no obligation to purchase tickets in the first place. And that is something UND (and REA for that matter) had better get thru their thick skulls before they alienate long-time (and loyal) supporters.

[fightingsioux4life]

My understanding is that UND Parking took the concession and engaged UND's Transportation department to utilize the existing campus shuttles and drivers as an adjunct to make ramp parking feasible on game nights. UND Parking provided the workers to place cones, guide traffic, take money, etc. Paying $5-10 bucks to park that far away without the shuttle was probably never even an option. Even in real metropolitan areas, the further you get away from the venue, the cheaper the parking.

The costs were therefore labor (Parking staff and drivers), and fuel/maintenance on the buses. Maintenance was probably negligible because the buses already run in continuous loops. The off-set was the incoming revenue from game-night parkers. UND could either operate the shuttle at a loss (which they appear to have been doing, by their own self-serving admission), increase revenues to break even, or try to actually make money. The question for me is, what was the extent of the loss? Not everything has to make money. Do the daily, campuswide student shuttles run in the black, for example?

There are some things you can't measure on a balance sheet: customer satisfaction, doing the right thing, not having people slip-and-fall or worse in traffic or adverse weather. Not only that, the ramp is a resource that is already being underutilized. Why have it sit empty on game nights, when the shuttle for years seems to have been a good (if not perfect) complement to game night operations.

I have heard it said that there were legitimate proposals to save the shuttle, and that they fell on deaf institutional ears. Maybe some enterprising sort would like to pursue that from an open records angle.

Not according to 82SiouxGuy; if you believe his logic, all that matters is what is printed in Econ 101 textbooks. Ralph Engelstad always understood that the human side of business was just as important (if not more important) as the brick and mortar side. That means treating the customers and employees right, not with the attitude of "If you don't like it, there's the door, get out". Ralph built a casino empire in Vegas, so I think I will trust his logic over some of the wanna-be economists on this forum.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

It's Gramma. And, your smily emoticon was negated by your last paragraph.

Gramma it is. And Gramma, because you (most clearly) genuinely care about how UND treats its fans, I welcome your continued participation in this discussion (which I started, for whatever that's worth).

But please realize that when it come to parking, there are haves (the landed gentry, so to speak) and have-nots (the rest of us). I will therefore continue to defend the honor of well-meaning posters on this thread who have called out the 'bigwigs' and 'corporate elites' for having neither expressed empathy for, nor given due consideration to, persons directly impacted by UND's decision. 'Save your money, work harder, donate to UND and get yourself a parking permit' (a statement which I am attributing to no one) is not, in my opinion, a constructive response.

Enjoy the privileges your efforts have afforded you. I certainly won't tell you how to spend your hard-earned money, but I will tell the University of North Dakota how I think it should spend its less-hard-earned money. After all, he's a big boy now, and I'm sure he can take it.