Shawn-O Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You just continue to live in denial. Obviously you will never understand how immature and childish you and your buddies appear to anyone outside your group. We're going to bring this thread back where it belongs. We are going to talk about the 10 NDSU football players, and the 3 former NDSU football players that are charged with forging petitions and committing voter fraud. You remember that Johnny? Did you ever figure out the part where they were interfering with the election PROCESS by forging those documents? We can also mention the part about the coach and the athletic director believing that the crime isn't serious, even though the crime is considered a class A misdemeanor which is just short of a felony. And that the Attorney General and Secretary of State both want to increase the penalty to a felony for future criminals. Or the part where the athletic director said that the players were basically victims, instead of admitting that they should act like adults. We could even throw in the other NDSU football players that have been charged with crimes in the past few months if you want. Which one of those facts would you like to discuss Johnny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Funny, I didn't mention anything about the UND fan base. That would be a separate discussion. But you have to try and bring it into the conversation to deflect the conversation away from the bad reputation that your buddies have. Who do you think this story is referring to when they say "officials" don't believe the crime is serious? Hasn't Bohl suspended players for missing class? So voter fraud is less serious than missing class? http://bismarcktribu...19bb2963f4.html And then the President had to try and clarify those statements 2 or 3 times last week, and never quite did make it clear whether the athletic department would consider additional actions or not. You should really be proud of the players and the administration for the entire situation. By trashing my fanbase, you are essentially saying yours is better. That is what we called in geometry back in high school, a given. I am proud of my university and the gentlemen we have leading us. Has this been handled perfectly? Nope, no situation can be handled perfectly. That is ok too. I will gladly take the problems NDSU has had the past 10 years or so over the problems UND has had. No defense for Lakes - I have received two very questionable PMs from him. NOT GOOD. Same here. He can be rather mean. He doesn't like having threads be made about him on AGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm talking about being on message boards. No one wants to deal with NDSU fans on message boards. However, I know from experience going back many years that dealing with NDSU fans, especially at games, is just about as much fun as dealing with them on message boards. By the way, ask Hayduke about Lake's behavior at CSU. Hayduke wasn't impressed and it sounds like the CSU fans weren't either. In an odd way, I kind of feel sorry for that maroon. Alcohol and stupidity do not mix well. I got the impression that the CSU fans perked up looking at him and realizing that at least they don't have a fool like that cheering their team. He amused them. Honestly though, the NDSU fans as a group could not have been nicer and more fun at that game. My CSU friends were extremely impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 By trashing my fanbase, you are essentially saying yours is better. That is what we called in geometry back in high school, a given. There is no correlation between talking about your fan base and talking about the UND fan base. They are independent of each other. They are in 2 separate equations. They interact, but they are not dependent on each other. They don't add up to zero with bad countering good. There is nothing saying that if one is bad the other is good, or that if one is bad the other is also bad. You are making assumptions as usual. How did you get through geometry with that kind of reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 There is no correlation between talking about your fan base and talking about the UND fan base. They are independent of each other. They are in 2 separate equations. They interact, but they are not dependent on each other. They don't add up to zero with bad countering good. There is nothing saying that if one is bad the other is good, or that if one is bad the other is also bad. You are making assumptions as usual. How did you get through geometry with that kind of reasoning? Don't try playing stupid. I am aware that they are two independent things. I don't think anyone said they are dependent on one another. It can probably be assumed that when you talk down/look down on some group of people that you feel your group is better than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Don't try playing stupid. I am aware that they are two independent things. I don't think anyone said they are dependent on one another. It can probably be assumed that when you talk down/look down on some group of people that you feel your group is better than them. You said it was a given that if I was putting down the NDSU fan base I was saying the UND fan base were angels. That intimates that the 2 factors are dependent on each other. It wasn't a given, it was an assumption. Obviously they don't have anything to do with each other. And you should know what happens when you assume something. I wasn't comparing the 2 fan bases in any way, and I didn't have to in order to make a point. I feel that most fan bases are better to deal with on bulletin boards than NDSU's. And every fan base has their own problem children. The UND fan base has its own problem children and is far from perfect. NDSU has more of them per capita than any board I read. They also troll on other boards more than any fan base I see, lead by your pal Lakes. That's why I consider your pals one of the worst, if not the worst fan bases to deal with on message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 No defense for Lakes - I have received two very questionable PMs from him. NOT GOOD. I will never try to defend what lakes does on the internet, he has sent me some questionable PMs for just calling UND our rival. Not sure what UND did to him but it sends him completely over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You said it was a given that if I was putting down the NDSU fan base I was saying the UND fan base were angels. That intimates that the 2 factors are dependent on each other. It wasn't a given, it was an assumption. Obviously they don't have anything to do with each other. And you should know what happens when you assume something. I wasn't comparing the 2 fan bases in any way, and I didn't have to in order to make a point. I feel that most fan bases are better to deal with on bulletin boards than NDSU's. And every fan base has their own problem children. The UND fan base has its own problem children and is far from perfect. NDSU has more of them per capita than any board I read. They also troll on other boards more than any fan base I see, lead by your pal Lakes. That's why I consider your pals one of the worst, if not the worst fan bases to deal with on message boards. Ok, we are on the same page now. I genuinely apologize for mistaking what you were trying to get across. When you got a couple bad apples(I mean real bad ones, Lakes, JBB, Mlps) it can reflect poorly upon a group of people. Lakes is not my pal, none of the trolls are. Lakes' "NDSU tO The BiG 12!!!!11!!!11" talk is dumb and everyone knows that. NDSU fans do love our football, and the nuts ones will venture elsewhere. I am a member on this board(UND is close, have lots of friends who go there, and cheer against UND hard enough to feel the need keep up), Bisonville(Go Bison!), and AGS. NDSU also has a boatload of fans compared to dang near any fanbase. App, GaSo, Montana, Montana State, and a few others have comparable numbers on AGS, all of them have a few weirdos. Also keep in mind that a lot of these guys were in school during the Bison dominance run of the 80's and early 90's and are super pumped to finally be back where we feel we belong. Some of them might get overzealous(I am guilty too) from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeister Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Some of them might get overzealous(I am guilty too) from time to time. I would say you're guilty most of the time, not from time to time. But it's a harmless violation, not like an alcohol or sex crime. And, the consequences of your guilt probably weren't explained to you upfront. Let's just sit on it until your day in court. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/374791/ Grand Forks - When news came down Tuesday morning that four University of North Dakota hockey captains will be suspended for the regular-season opener due to a weekend team party, the public was quick to evoke the North Dakota-North Dakota State rivalry. On the Internet and at the water cooler, the UND discipline was held in comparison to NDSU’s recent handling of a voter fraud charge among 10 Bison football players that has yet to yield a suspension or any disciplinary action. NDSU lost its public relations battle when it blamed the media for the drawn-out coverage and was tight-lipped about exactly how the matter would be dealt with internally. It’s the kind of transparency those who have been following the NDSU voter fraud coverage have been begging to see. So when it comes to the public relations battle between these two universities, UND won this round – or maybe more accurately lost less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Don't try playing stupid. (snip) I would never try that with you. You're an expert at it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://www.inforum.c...icle/id/374791/ Transparency . . . Like the Arres . . . , like the Misdimea . . . , like the charg . . . , like Contributing to Min . . . . . . I mean the suspensions. Ya, that was great transparency on the suspensions, there it is, boom, totally transparent. What are they being suspended for again? Well who knows, there wasn't any transparency on that part of it. So far they have been suspended ONE GAME for a "Party". Yes, very nice. Does two "Parties" and some transparency get you an entire season? Time to end all "Parties" at UND. That must have been one hell of a "Party". UND sure showed NDSU a thing or two, now that's text book tranparency. Does the GFPD also practice tranparency. Transparency is great. We should all practice this high level of tranparency, so everything is completely . . . well, Transparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Transparency . . . Like the Arres . . . , like the Misdimea . . . , like the charg . . . , like Contributing to Min . . . . . . sorry, I mean the suspensions. Ya, that was great transparency on the suspensions. What are they being suspended for again? Who knows, there wasn't any transparency on that part of it. So far they have been suspended ONE GAME for a "Party". Yes, very nice. Does two "Parties" get you an entire season? Time to end all "Parties" at UND. UND sure showed NDSU a thing or two, nice work with the tranparency. They were suspended for breaking team rules. At this point there have been no arrests, no charges, and no issues with the police. The States Attorney is reviewing information to see if anything happened that would warrant charges. If charges are filed, it's possible that the players could face other penalties from the team and the school. In addition, the entire team is facing some kind of consequence including mandatory community service and alcohol classes. If other issues arise during the season it is possible that players could lose scholarship money or be removed from the team. Let's review the NDSU situation. 10 current football players have been formally charged with voter fraud, a class A misdemeanor. That is 1 step short of a felony, so it is kind of a serious charge. 3 former players have been charged with the same crime. All have admitted to investigators that they are guilty according to media reports. In response, the Athletic Director and coach have indicated that this isn't a serious crime. The coach said that there will be no suspensions and the Athletic Director states that the players have suffered enough because their names have been in the media and people have been talking about them. So the athletic department has given them absolutely no visible punishment for committing a class A misdemeanor. Sure seems like a lot more transparency a lot earlier in the process at UND than happened at NDSU. It's no wonder that you're proud of your school and want to come over here to brag about how well NDSU has handled the situation. People and media all over the country have been talking about how well NDSU handled the situation. Congratulations. Oh yeah, if this post was on Bville there would be a couple of sentences in a different color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 They were suspended for breaking team rules. At this point there have been no arrests, no charges, and no issues with the police. The States Attorney is reviewing information to see if anything happened that would warrant charges. If charges are filed, it's possible that the players could face other penalties from the team and the school. In addition, the entire team is facing some kind of consequence including mandatory community service and alcohol classes. If other issues arise during the season it is possible that players could lose scholarship money or be removed from the team. Let's review the NDSU situation. 10 current football players have been formally charged with voter fraud, a class A misdemeanor. That is 1 step short of a felony, so it is kind of a serious charge. 3 former players have been charged with the same crime. All have admitted to investigators that they are guilty according to media reports. In response, the Athletic Director and coach have indicated that this isn't a serious crime. The coach said that there will be no suspensions and the Athletic Director states that the players have suffered enough because their names have been in the media and people have been talking about them. So the athletic department has given them absolutely no visible punishment for committing a class A misdemeanor. Sure seems like a lot more transparency a lot earlier in the process at UND than happened at NDSU. It's no wonder that you're proud of your school and want to come over here to brag about how well NDSU has handled the situation. People and media all over the country have been talking about how well NDSU handled the situation. Congratulations. Oh yeah, if this post was on Bville there would be a couple of sentences in a different color. The viloations look pretty similar to me between the two schools, unless this is viewed as a hazing event, in which case the UND situation would be a lot more serious, and some of these guys would be sweating their careers. How you can get busted in a sitatuon like this and have zero Minors, zero contributing to Minors, zero arrests or charges filed is a friggin miracle. They either had a guilty conscience the next day and turned themselves in (haha), or this was a neat trick by the GFPD. Is this the new definition of "transparency". On the NDSU side, we are talking about a large group of people (there is certainly some safety in numbrs in this case), and an agency that is likely very complicit in these charges due to owning the process and training on the procedures. A serious situation, yes, but if you think that these charges won't be plead down below the current level, your an idiot. These players will all likely get 1 game suspensions and some service requirements to appease the sharks, and that's about it. If it would make you happy and shut you up (saving another 60 pages), maybe I'd vote for suspending them right now before any of us even really know anything about how this will play out like happened in the a$$ kissing move for public consumption up north. Can NDSU also pick the worst team on schedule PVA&M for the suspensions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The viloations look pretty similar to me between the two schools, unless this is viewed as a hazing event, in which case the UND situation would be a lot more serious, and some of these guys would be sweating their careers. How you can get busted in a sitatuon like this and have zero Minors, zero contributing to Minors, zero arrests or charges filed is a friggin miracle. They either had a guilty conscience the next day and turned themselves in (haha), or this was a neat trick by the GFPD. Is this the new definition of "transparency". On the NDSU side, we are talking about a large group of people (there is certainly some safety in numbrs in this case), and an agency that is likely very complicit in these charges due to owning the process and training on the procedures. A serious situation, yes, but if you think that these charges won't be plead down below the current level, your an idiot. These players will all likely get 1 game suspensions and some service requirements to appease the sharks, and that's about it. If it would make you happy and shut you up (saving another 60 pages), maybe I'd vote for suspending them right now before any of us even really know anything about how this will play out like happened in the a$$ kissing move for public consumption up north. Can NDSU also pick the worst team on schedule PVA&M for the suspensions? If the NDSU players actually admitted the crimes it is less likely that they would be allowed to plead to a lesser charge. The penalties are a range, and it is doubtful that they will get the maximum. But they could very well have a class A misdemeanor fraud charge on their record. And the main reason that NDSU got into the PR problem in the first place is the inconsistency of the football coach, followed by the cavalier attitude of both the coach and the athletic director. Bohl has suspended a lot of players for lesser charges, and before the case was heard. Knowing that, the public sees a problem when he does nothing for a more serious legal charge. Bohl could have suspended them for Robert Morris and it would have eliminated most of the chatter. They could have reserved additional punishment if the crime was deemed worthy of further action. And the AD saying that the players had suffered enough was way over the top. NDSU got themselves into the PR problem before anything happened at UND. As far as the company that hired them, it isn't clear at this time whether they committed any crimes or not. Some of the things they did are probably at least in a gray area. And it looks like they did a poor job of training and supervision at a minimum. But they have not been charged with any crimes as of yet, and it isn't clear whether they will ever be charged with any crimes. But even if they do, that doesn't change the fact that the players committed an act of forging signatures that a vast majority of people would realized is a crime of some kind. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. Their punishments should be unrelated to any punishment that their employers may or may not receive. I'm not sure how you can say the violations at UND look similar when none of the details are available yet. The case is still under investigation. There is a process in place and it sometimes takes a little while. The State's Attorney is reviewing information from the police and probably doing some further investigation or questioning. But they normally don't release much for details until they are ready to charge or not charge. And they can't charge for crimes if they don't have evidence. Were the police called to the scene of the party, or to the dorms to deal with loud and drunk college students who had returned from a party? Was the party at another location and were the drunk students just dumped back at the dorms? Was alcohol present where the police were called? If there is no alcohol present it is hard to charge with minor in possession. Who was present at the location where the police were called? If no one of legal age was present and part of the group, it is hard to charge someone with contributing. If the police were called to the dorm they may have to sort out who was involved and who was just there because they live there. If a form of hazing happened, what kind of hazing was it and how serious was it? There are different levels from something that wouldn't be worthy of a criminal charge up to a pretty serious criminal charge. The police and the school may both be trying to sort out that issue. These are just some of the questions that you start with. More information will come out and we will probably get a better idea of what really happened. Until then it is not realistic to say that we know the violations look similar. There is another difference between the UND situation and the NDSU situation. The NDSU players committed the crimes over the summer, the investigation was ongoing by the time school started and the athletic department knew about it at least 1 or 2 weeks before the public heard. That gave them time to gather information and make informed decisions. Their decision was to do nothing. For UND this incident happened last weekend. The investigation is still ongoing, which may be why charges haven't been filed. But UND jumped in and did something. Doing something will normally get you more points than doing nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdebbies Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Mad Dog Chasing Tail - YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The viloations look pretty similar to me between the two schools, unless this is viewed as a hazing event, in which case the UND situation would be a lot more serious, and some of these guys would be sweating their careers. How you can get busted in a sitatuon like this and have zero Minors, zero contributing to Minors, zero arrests or charges filed is a friggin miracle. They either had a guilty conscience the next day and turned themselves in (haha), or this was a neat trick by the GFPD. Is this the new definition of "transparency". On the NDSU side, we are talking about a large group of people (there is certainly some safety in numbrs in this case), and an agency that is likely very complicit in these charges due to owning the process and training on the procedures. A serious situation, yes, but if you think that these charges won't be plead down below the current level, your an idiot. These players will all likely get 1 game suspensions and some service requirements to appease the sharks, and that's about it. If it would make you happy and shut you up (saving another 60 pages), maybe I'd vote for suspending them right now before any of us even really know anything about how this will play out like happened in the a$$ kissing move for public consumption up north. Can NDSU also pick the worst team on schedule PVA&M for the suspensions? What about Beck only getting a "handle it internally" for his SECOND minor in possession? Plus, Bohl knew he ran from the cops and was charged with it but his lawyer got him out of it. What happened after the first minor? Told him good job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The viloations look pretty similar to me between the two schools, unless this is viewed as a hazing event, in which case the UND situation would be a lot more serious, and some of these guys would be sweating their careers. How you can get busted in a sitatuon like this and have zero Minors, zero contributing to Minors, zero arrests or charges filed is a friggin miracle. They either had a guilty conscience the next day and turned themselves in (haha), or this was a neat trick by the GFPD. Is this the new definition of "transparency". On the NDSU side, we are talking about a large group of people (there is certainly some safety in numbrs in this case), and an agency that is likely very complicit in these charges due to owning the process and training on the procedures. A serious situation, yes, but if you think that these charges won't be plead down below the current level, your an idiot. These players will all likely get 1 game suspensions and some service requirements to appease the sharks, and that's about it. If it would make you happy and shut you up (saving another 60 pages), maybe I'd vote for suspending them right now before any of us even really know anything about how this will play out like happened in the a$$ kissing move for public consumption up north. Can NDSU also pick the worst team on schedule PVA&M for the suspensions? Uh They were not busted, how difficult would it be for coaches to find out about an all team annual party? They were probably warned about doing it in advance, but college kids being what they are didn't listen and now they are suffering the consequences. Swift and specific. If the police were there, there would be a paper trail - you can't cover that up even if they were trying. They were suspended for the first regular season game that happened after the event came to light. Some bison fans obviously feel like the administration should have picked a specific game so it was against a tougher opponent? Really? Every day the su football team continues to have its reputation dragged through the mud. Now they are trying to focus the blame on the petition gathering companies? Really? They committed fraud. They did it on purpose. They took money for a job they did not do. They signed a legal document saying they did not commit fraud. They are still playing football, they were not suspended. No comparision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And they can't charge for crimes if they don't have evidence. Were the police called to the scene of the party, or to the dorms to deal with loud and drunk college students who had returned from a party? Was the party at another location and were the drunk students just dumped back at the dorms? Was alcohol present where the police were called? If there is no alcohol present it is hard to charge with minor in possession. When I got my minor we had no alcohol on us. Just walking home. If the police want to do something, they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 When I got my minor we had no alcohol on us. Just walking home. If the police want to do something, they can. That doesn't make sense. How do you get stopped by the cops for just walking home. And how did they know it wasn't O'Doules on your breath. I walk all around Fargo and I don't just "get stopped by the cops". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 When I got my minor we had no alcohol on us. Just walking home. If the police want to do something, they can. And you should be proud of getting a minor. My point was that we don't have all of the information yet because it is still under investigation. It is still early in the process. Players might still get charged with something. Yet, even without charges of any kind, the team is being punished for being stupid. See how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That doesn't make sense. How do you get stopped by the cops for just walking home. And how did they know it wasn't O'Doules on your breath. I walk all around Fargo and I don't just "get stopped by the cops". If you're stumbling, weaving, yelling, or otherwise doing anything to draw attention to yourself and you are near campus the cops will probably stop you. Also, I'd assume that in order to get the minor Johnboy either admitted to drinking or got breathalized. If he didn't, he got hosed by the fuzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Years ago the GFPD would have looked the other way, like they did for a lot of things, if something involved hockey players. Today with these angry steroid hop heads, that are called law enforcement, would enjoy busting hockey players for bragging rights with their fellow steroid hop heads. I think hockey players would not get a walk that another college student would get in GF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That doesn't make sense. How do you get stopped by the cops for just walking home. And how did they know it wasn't O'Doules on your breath. I walk all around Fargo and I don't just "get stopped by the cops". You also aren't a college-age looking kid walking at 1 in the morning(often times with a backpack). Things have changed a lot since a lot of people on here were younger. If they smelled O'Doules Darell they'd give you a breathalizer then and you'd get let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Again, what does this have to do with class A misdemeanor voter fraud charges filed against 10 current and 3 former NDSU football players? Their October 2 court date is just around the corner. We'll see how much pleading down comes about, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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