How will you vote June 12th?

[geaux_sioux]

Are you referring to Johnboy's post? He might be sarcastic about the "nickname at all costs crowd" giving him hope, but he has stated multiple times he is serious about voting "no" on the measure.

One mans vote is but a drop of water in an ocean. He can vote however he wants, it's pretty clear the name is being dropped so he might as well have fun poking people here since there isn't much to talk about in the off season

[ScottM]

One mans vote is but a drop of water in an ocean. He can vote however he wants, it's pretty clear the name is being dropped so he might as well have fun poking people here since there isn't much to talk about in the off season

The fact some 'su fan is voting "No" solely to take a shot at UND should be evidence enough of the damage to UND from the NC$$ sanctions for some of these "Save the Name" knuckleheads. They obviously grasp the ramifications of the vote for UND, so I fail to understand why certain ostensible alums and "friends" of UND do not. Then again, I'd rather UND take a shot from our enemies to the south than fair weather fans of a moniker.

[UNDBIZ]

One mans vote is but a drop of water in an ocean. He can vote however he wants, it's pretty clear the name is being dropped so he might as well have fun poking people here since there isn't much to talk about in the off season

I agree one vote isn't going to decide this thing, just trying to make it clear why Sic felt the need to point out JohnyBoy's short-sitedness. I'm not as confident as you are that the name will be dropped, but for the sake of UND I hope you're right.

[geaux_sioux]

I agree one vote isn't going to decide this thing, just trying to make it clear why Sic felt the need to point out JohnyBoy's short-sitedness. I'm not as confident as you are that the name will be dropped, but for the sake of UND I hope you're right.

I'd like to think the people of ND aren't a bunch of morons with the exclusion of DaveK

[82SiouxGuy]

I'd like to think the people of ND aren't a bunch of morons with the exclusion of DaveK

I'd like to think that also. But there are a lot of people that aren't really informed on the topic, especially in the western part of the state. The overwhelming urge to fight "outsiders" will cause many of these people to vote to keep the name. Hopefully enough people will learn the truth before the election and we will be able to move on without a problem.

[UNDBIZ]

I'd like to think that also. But there are a lot of people that aren't really informed on the topic, especially in the western part of the state. The overwhelming urge to fight "outsiders" will cause many of these people to vote to keep the name. Hopefully enough people will learn the truth before the election and we will be able to move on without a problem.

Read: People who have never attended a class at UND.

[82SiouxGuy]

Read: People who have never attended a class at UND.

A lot of them haven't attended any college. And some have attended college in another state. There are plenty of people out west that attended UND, and I believe that a significant number will support UND's efforts. But there is that group of UND people (mainly hockey only people) that will also vote to keep the name.

[yababy8]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department?

...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives.

... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same.

So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX!

IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

[The Sicatoka]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs?

This is hilarious.

I remember when moniker opponents were asking that same question of a past SiouxSports poster who supported the name.

It's a weak-sauce tactic.

[ScottM]

Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name.

Whatever "credibility" you think you have was just flushed down the toilet. And if your involvement in this issue only goes back to "before the Spirit Lake vote", whatever that means, you've shown yourself to be ignorant as well, which is par for the course.

[UNDBIZ]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department?

...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives.

... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same.

So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX!

IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

Yes, I do work. No, it's not for UND/SBHE/NDUS.

You say we should vote for the name "ONCE." Why? We all know if the vote was purely based on whether we like the name or not, it would pass 95-5. What's the point? It's not about that anymore. It's about doing what is best for UND and the state of ND.

[82SiouxGuy]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department?

...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives.

... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same.

So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX!

IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

Yeah, I have a job, and no, it isn't for UND. I just happen to have a little flexibility in my job right now. Some days more than others. It won't last, I will get busy again. Are you jealous that I have a little time?

The group that was actually anti-Sioux nickname was small, but vocal. Only 1 or 2 of those still post here. All you have to do is go back and read some old threads to see who they were and see that yababy doesn't have a clue. There are some that still post here who said at the time of the settlement that getting Standing Rock to change their mind was going to be very difficult and maybe impossible. After all, Standing Rock had been on the record against the nickname for 15 years by then. Only a fool would believe it was going to be easy to change their minds. Guess what, they wouldn't even discuss it. You can't get someone to change if they won't even talk to you. And legally, they had that right. But yababy doesn't understand laws and legal systems. He lives in a world where everything is fair and puppies don't die.

It is too late to debate whether anything more could have been done. I say that you can't negotiate with someone that won't speak to you, and that is what happened with Standing Rock. But what is really important is the fact that it's over. There is noone left to negotiate with. The deadline has passed. The NCAA won't negotiate any more. They won, and they are going to get what they want. No matter what UND does, the NCAA gets what they want. They either get rid of the nickname, or they have a school on sanctions that is minimalized. The NCAA set up sanctions that will slowly make the athletic department irrelevant. UND teams will not be competing in NCAA tournaments, so they won't affect the NCAA.

yababy is advocating an empty gesture to somehow make a point to "show them" (I'm not sure who it is going to show, or what it is going to show them). This empty gesture will not harm the NCAA. It will not get the NCAA to back down. The NCAA will continue to turn the screws and push more schools to follow "best practices" and not schedule UND. The empty gesture does not help UND in any way. As a matter of fact, it harms UND by keeping the sanctions in place. It doesn't help the tribes. The only thing the empty gesture would do is make some people feel good. It is an empty, symbolic gesture that allows these people to keep yelling Sioux. It is a selfish move that is only meant to make them feel good. It is not a wise business move. It is not going to support the University. It is not going to do anything for the greater good. It is an empty gesture. yababy was asked many times how this gesture would help UND. His only answer is listed above, and it isn't really an answer to the question. I will ask again, how does your gesture help UND? How does it help get the NCAA to back down? How does it eliminate the sanctions? Why would anyone that wants the University to succeed want to make this gesture?

[Siouxperfan7]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department?

...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives.

... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same.

So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX!

IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

I am not anti nickname and I am voting YES on June 12th. I agree with you that the SBHE, UND officials, etc could have done more. But it is too late. If we vote to keep the name, it is not going to change the minds of the NCAA. We had a delegation from UND visit Dr. Emmert (NCAA President) to discuss the new law passed. He siad that it did not mean anything because of the legally binding settlement UND signed. We had till December 2010. That time has passed. Didn't get approval from both tribes.

So if the vote goes down on June 12th to keep the name, what do you think the NCAA is going to do? They said we can keep the name...but if we do, we will suffer sanctions. I an sure you are well aware of them so I won't repeat them. These santions have already started of affect UND's atheltic program.

I am totally in support of the Fighting Sioux name and all it stands for. I totally think it was wrong in 2005 for the NCAA to make their ruling. I want UND to keep the name. But not at the cost it is going to be to keep it. You need to realize that most of us that are saying to vote YES love the nickname and do not think it is wrong by any means. But we are doing what is best for the University of North Dakota.

You need to realize the ramifications of keeping the name right now. 4 years ago their were no ramifications. Today there is. Its to late. If we want to be a member of the NCAA, we have to follow their rules. I know its a raw deal, but its the hand we are dealt.

[sioux rube]

You really shouldn't correct things, because you never get them right.

The thing is it was right in the first place.

[Fetch]

seems Haga is trying to be Fair & Balanced http://www.grandfork...icle/id/237170/

It really is a sad day & will be a sad few weeks listening to those who in their hearts know better - campaign to let the name & logo go

wonder if $$$ can buy this election or will common sense Nodakers see that the sanctions are not that big of a deal & vote with their hearts & vote NO

If down the road it is proven to really harm sports then UND can have their own referral to drop the name - this one is to save it

[jdub27]

Sanctions or changing the name : Sanctions would be the lesser of those two evils if you truly support the nickname.

Sanctions or changing the name : Changing the name is the lesser of those two evils if you truly support the University of North Dakota.

[jdub27]

From the Herald article:

In a lengthy statement released by the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe’s Committee for Understanding and Respect and the Save the Sioux Ballot Measures Committee, nickname supporters objected to the claim that “our name and likeness” could hurt UND, its student athletes and the athletics program.

I take it they haven't read the settlement agreement.

No one is happy about it (minus a few vocal NDSU fans) but it is unfortunately the truth.

[ScottM]

From the Herald article:

I take it they haven't read the settlement agreement.

No one is happy about it (minus a few vocal NDSU fans) but it is unfortunately the truth.

I'd have a bit more respect for them if they had actually discussed the matter with Kupchella in 2005 or so. As far as I'm concerned, their opinion is about as meaningful as the rest of the "save the name" crowd. >>> They have no skin in the game at UND.

[geaux_sioux]

Hey 82Sioux and UNDBIZ, do you guys have jobs? I am amazed at how you both are CONTSANTLY posting on the Sioux name threads. It's as if this IS your job. Are you two getting paid by the University to brainwash Sioux fans into thinking that if the state of North Dakota votes to keep the name NaZis with machine guns will drive onto the campus with tanks and blow up the athletic department?

...Just an FYI to the casual readers here at SiouxSports.com, Siouxsports.com has ALWAYS had a large contingent of anti Sioux name people blogging. It goes back to the days before the Spirit Lake vote. I would say that historically half of the posts have been anti-name. I recall when Spirit Lakes vote results came in there were a few posts on here asking what all of the anti-name people were going to use as an arguement for getting rid of the name since they were all proven wrong with respect to their assertions that the Sioux people were just one big group of offended natives.

... I know that all of the current name killers will say that they knew at that time that this was all hopeless. I will say that the one thing missing then and now was any conviction by the leadership of UND and the state to assert the wishes of Sprit Lake and North Dakotans. They NEVER showed a disposition of will to keep the name. They perpetually seemed to either be silent or speak in terms that the NCAA would have them. The media did the same.

So I say vote no and clearly say to the UND administation and the SBofHE. You have effectively been mandated by the people of the State of North Dakota to perform the duty of advocating for the name we call ourselves. THE SIOUX!

IT will be a BIG DEAL if we have to kill it and that time should not be yet. Vote for the name ONCE!!! It is everyone's first opportunity (exception Spirit Lake Memebers)

Hey facepalm, I mean yababy8, why do you have more posts than UNDBIZ who clearly has no life or job or girlfriend and clearly lives in his parents basement?

[Siouxperfan7]

seems Haga is trying to be Fair & Balanced http://www.grandfork...icle/id/237170/

It really is a sad day & will be a sad few weeks listening to those who in their hearts know better - campaign to let the name & logo go

wonder if $$$ can buy this election or will common sense Nodakers see that the sanctions are not that big of a deal & vote with their hearts & vote NO

If down the road it is proven to really harm sports then UND can have their own referral to drop the name - this one is to save it

Down the road?? They are proven to harm them rich NOW!!! If the football team makes the playoffs, they cannot be awarded a home game. Womens hockey either!! Those sanctions are in effect right now!! If you don't think that is a big deal, then you are seriously misguided!

[yababy8]

I'd have a bit more respect for them if they had actually discussed the matter with Kupchella in 2005 or so. As far as I'm concerned, their opinion is about as meaningful as the rest of the "save the name" crowd. >>> They have no skin in the game at UND.

Oh sure, the day after the NCAA announced their racest mandate the Spirit Lake Sioux should have rushed to the waiting cameras of the attentive press and denounce the NCAA. It's not like they had to work through an onslought of propaganda which included constant associations between those who supported the name and anti-semitism, Natzism, and white supremacy. You remember the days before the Spirit Lake don't you smart guy? Remeber the flyers stating that Ralph Englestad was a racest and a Nazi supporter don't you. I do. I remember the sports illustrated article, the New York times article, "The sign of the times" segment on nightline. All of that stuff was about as prevalent as the kill the name stuff is today.

It is so goddam funney how the one constant in the entire history of the name change is that the Kill the name side has always had such energy and yet it has been from a semmingly different rational over time. It reminds me of how a child argues a point. Relentless barrage of meandering and morphing points until they get their way. Where was the passion from the ulumni association 7 years ago? Where were the TV commercials and the OPEN trips to the tribes? How many times did they write letters to places like St.Clound, Minnesota, Iowa explaining the REALITY of our use of the name?

We will live if we vote for the name. As I said it can always be killed later if the Nazi's come onto Columbia ave and start blowing the crap out of our athletic facilites.

We can have one vote for the name. 82Sioux says what is the point. He says the vote would be 95% for the name. Well I would say that a vote of 95% for anything would be a historic vote and it would speak to the irrationality and hypocracy of the NCAA's policy. It just might garner some national member support, especially if the press actually reported it. Now this is where the UND administation comes in. Time to advocate for what they should have been for the last decade.

ONE TIME!

[yababy8]

Hey facepalm, I mean yababy8, why do you have more posts than UNDBIZ who clearly has no life or job or girlfriend and clearly lives in his parents basement?

Hey UNDBIZ, I am assuming you have or are getting a Business degree from UND. I was fortunate enough to have two years of school enrolled in the business department at UND. I therefore know that a business degree at UND requires a couple of accounting classes, some statistics and a few other classes that require math.

Given this, could you help out hoody boy here on the flaws in his point while I go wash my face..

[82SiouxGuy]

Oh sure, the day after the NCAA announced their racest mandate the Spirit Lake Sioux should have rushed to the waiting cameras of the attentive press and denounce the NCAA. It's not like they had to work through an onslought of propaganda which included constant associations between those who supported the name and anti-semitism, Natzism, and white supremacy. You remember the days before the Spirit Lake don't you smart guy? Remeber the flyers stating that Ralph Englestad was a racest and a Nazi supporter don't you. I do. I remember the sports illustrated article, the New York times article, "The sign of the times" segment on nightline. All of that stuff was about as prevalent as the kill the name stuff is today.

It is so goddam funney how the one constant in the entire history of the name change is that the Kill the name side has always had such energy and yet it has been from a semmingly different rational over time. It reminds me of how a child argues a point. Relentless barrage of meandering and morphing points until they get their way. Where was the passion from the ulumni association 7 years ago? Where were the TV commercials and the OPEN trips to the tribes? How many times did they write letters to places like St.Clound, Minnesota, Iowa explaining the REALITY of our use of the name?

We will live if we vote for the name. As I said it can always be killed later if the Nazi's come onto Columbia ave and start blowing the crap out of our athletic facilites.

We can have one vote for the name. 82Sioux says what is the point. He says the vote would be 95% for the name. Well I would say that a vote of 95% for anything would be a historic vote and it would speak to the irrationality and hypocracy of the NCAA's policy. It just might garner some national member support, especially if the press actually reported it. Now this is where the UND administation comes in. Time to advocate for what they should have been for the last decade.

ONE TIME!

You really haven't paid attention through the years, have you. I'll try another history lesson. The NCAA announced their Native American policy in August of 2005. The appeal process came out shortly after that. All that was needed was written proof from someone in a single tribe that had authority to sign for that tribe. They ended up accepting appeals well into 2006.

Spirit Lake had issued a statement in 2000 saying that they did not object to UND using the nickname as long as something good was being done at UND. By 2005 there were some people questioning whether Spirit Lake was going to remove that approval. When the NCAA issued their policy and the appeal process they required every tribe that was going to give approval to send in that written documentation. The Seminoles did that, even though they had given approval years before. So did the Utes in Utah and others. Spirit Lake was silent. They refused to talk to President Kupchella or anyone with the State Board of Higher Education. They refused to communicate with the NCAA. All they had to do was send a letter with a single sentence saying something like "The 2000 approval by the Tribal Council is still in effect". Pretty simple, but they wouldn't do it. The press wasn't involved at all, other than someone from the Herald trying to get a quote. The Tribal Council spoke by not saying anything to help. Standing Rock also had the opportunity to help at that time in place of Spirit Lake, they said they wanted the name removed.

Since UND couldn't get approval from any tribe, the NCAA was ready to put them on sanctions. UND sued to fight the policy, mainly based on how the process worked to implement the policy. During the trial process the NCAA changed their process so that they could re-implement the policy and do it according to their bylaws. That forced UND to agree to a settlement because they weren't going to win anything meaningful. The settlement gained UND another 3 years to get approval, in exchange they had to get approvals from both Spirit Lake. At the time Spirit Lake was questionable at best and Standing Rock was very doubtful.

A group at Spirit Lake managed to push through a vote, which showed that there was support on the reservation. The Tribal Council still didn't want to provide the written approval needed by the settlement. Actually, the settlement didn't ask for the vote. Again the settlement said that the NCAA knew about the 2000 statement and all they asked for was written proof that the statement was still valid. But since the Tribal Council refused to act, the tribe members forced the vote and then forced the Tribal Council to send the written approval. Standing Rock continued to refuse to even discuss the issue. They stayed with their policy asking UND to remove the nickname. The 3 years of the settlement ended and that was where the issue stood and still stands today. Standing Rock wasn't going to change their policy. The NCAA isn't going to change their policy. UND is on sanctions and will remain their until the nickname is changed.

All of that media attention at Spirit Lake was after the settlement. Scott was referring to the period in 2005-2006 when Spirit Lake could have stopped all of this nonsense with a single written sentence. No media fuss, no muss. Spirit Lake refused to do that, and now a group from their is causing most of the fuss because they pushed to force the vote. Sorry, I have no sympathy for them.

It's interesting the crap you make up. I haven't predicted any vote totals on this board, and certainly wouldn't predict anything like 95%. A friend asked me today what I thought was going to happen with the vote. I told him about the Forum poll that had the Yes votes at 56%. Then I said that with the margin for error, and the fact that we don't know about undecideds, I believe it is too close to call right now. I think the Alumni Foundation ads will help because I believe there are a significant number of people that haven't been paying close attention and don't know all of the facts. The ads could sway some of that crowd. And I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly this much time trying to educate people if I thought the vote was already sewn up. I just hope that a majority votes Yes, and it would be better if it were more than just a small majority.

Again, you haven't told us what is going to be gained by making a huge symbolic gesture. How does it help UND? How does it force the NCAA to back down? How does it get UND off sanctions? How does it do anything for UND other than make you and some other people feel good about keeping the "magical" nickname and logo? All it would do is keep UND on sanctions, weaken the athletic department, chase away quality recruits, lose money for the athletic department, and has the potential to get UND kicked out of the Big Sky. Why would we knowingly weaken or damage the athletic department when we know that the NCAA is not going to back down and has every legal right to do what they are doing? It makes absolutely no sense to do what you are proposing.

[Siouxperfan7]

You really haven't paid attention through the years, have you. I'll try another history lesson. The NCAA announced their Native American policy in August of 2005. The appeal process came out shortly after that. All that was needed was written proof from someone in a single tribe that had authority to sign for that tribe. They ended up accepting appeals well into 2006.

Spirit Lake had issued a statement in 2000 saying that they did not object to UND using the nickname as long as something good was being done at UND. By 2005 there were some people questioning whether Spirit Lake was going to remove that approval. When the NCAA issued their policy and the appeal process they required every tribe that was going to give approval to send in that written documentation. The Seminoles did that, even though they had given approval years before. So did the Utes in Utah and others. Spirit Lake was silent. They refused to talk to President Kupchella or anyone with the State Board of Higher Education. They refused to communicate with the NCAA. All they had to do was send a letter with a single sentence saying something like "The 2000 approval by the Tribal Council is still in effect". Pretty simple, but they wouldn't do it. The press wasn't involved at all, other than someone from the Herald trying to get a quote. The Tribal Council spoke by not saying anything to help. Standing Rock also had the opportunity to help at that time in place of Spirit Lake, they said they wanted the name removed.

Since UND couldn't get approval from any tribe, the NCAA was ready to put them on sanctions. UND sued to fight the policy, mainly based on how the process worked to implement the policy. During the trial process the NCAA changed their process so that they could re-implement the policy and do it according to their bylaws. That forced UND to agree to a settlement because they weren't going to win anything meaningful. The settlement gained UND another 3 years to get approval, in exchange they had to get approvals from both Spirit Lake. At the time Spirit Lake was questionable at best and Standing Rock was very doubtful.

A group at Spirit Lake managed to push through a vote, which showed that there was support on the reservation. The Tribal Council still didn't want to provide the written approval needed by the settlement. Actually, the settlement didn't ask for the vote. Again the settlement said that the NCAA knew about the 2000 statement and all they asked for was written proof that the statement was still valid. But since the Tribal Council refused to act, the tribe members forced the vote and then forced the Tribal Council to send the written approval. Standing Rock continued to refuse to even discuss the issue. They stayed with their policy asking UND to remove the nickname. The 3 years of the settlement ended and that was where the issue stood and still stands today. Standing Rock wasn't going to change their policy. The NCAA isn't going to change their policy. UND is on sanctions and will remain their until the nickname is changed.

All of that media attention at Spirit Lake was after the settlement. Scott was referring to the period in 2005-2006 when Spirit Lake could have stopped all of this nonsense with a single written sentence. No media fuss, no muss. Spirit Lake refused to do that, and now a group from their is causing most of the fuss because they pushed to force the vote. Sorry, I have no sympathy for them.

It's interesting the crap you make up. I haven't predicted any vote totals on this board, and certainly wouldn't predict anything like 95%. A friend asked me today what I thought was going to happen with the vote. I told him about the Forum poll that had the Yes votes at 56%. Then I said that with the margin for error, and the fact that we don't know about undecideds, I believe it is too close to call right now. I think the Alumni Foundation ads will help because I believe there are a significant number of people that haven't been paying close attention and don't know all of the facts. The ads could sway some of that crowd. And I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly this much time trying to educate people if I thought the vote was already sewn up. I just hope that a majority votes Yes, and it would be better if it were more than just a small majority.

Again, you haven't told us what is going to be gained by making a huge symbolic gesture. How does it help UND? How does it force the NCAA to back down? How does it get UND off sanctions? How does it do anything for UND other than make you and some other people feel good about keeping the "magical" nickname and logo? All it would do is keep UND on sanctions, weaken the athletic department, chase away quality recruits, lose money for the athletic department, and has the potential to get UND kicked out of the Big Sky. Why would we knowingly weaken or damage the athletic department when we know that the NCAA is not going to back down and has every legal right to do what they are doing? It makes absolutely no sense to do what you are proposing.

Last paragraph pretty much sums it up. Great post!! I too am curious to here from our NO voters their response to the questions in this last paragraph?

"Again, you haven't told us what is going to be gained by making a huge symbolic gesture. How does it help UND? How does it force the NCAA to back down? How does it get UND off sanctions? How does it do anything for UND other than make you and some other people feel good about keeping the "magical" nickname and logo?"

Anyone?

[yababy8]

Your history lesson and my history lesson are not contradictory, they cover different aspects of the name fight history. I thought it was you that said the vote would be 95% in favor if it was only about who believed there was nothing wrong with uing the Sioiux name. Doesn't matter who said it. You, me and they know it wouldn't be that high. My point is that I see a graet value in the people of North Dakota speaking in an enumerated medium(a vote). IF we don't vote for the name history may very well write that the name was not supported by the people. I know this is how things work in society. You are wasting your time to argue this point. We kill hundreds of thousands of people for things like figments of our emagination. see "weapons of mass distruction". We decide elections based on smoke screens like flag burning, gay marriage, abortion while corperations have morphed our society into a socialism supported by the very party that denounces socialism itself.

This issue is a perfect example, democrats are significantly less supportive of the name in North Dakota. Why? This issue has big money, big power and concervative interest all over it. The democrats should be hammering the big bully NCAA organization. But what ever, the point is people are gullable and easily influenced and to vote to kill the name will open the doors to the influence of propaganda which will very likely revise history to show that the name was voted down by the people because they new it was "hostile and abusive".

Speaking of "hostile and abusive" I have a question for you mr History 82Sioux;

In either the settlement or the meetings in Indianapolis, I can't remember, didn't the NCAA commit to retract the "hostile and abusive" label regarding our use of the Sioux name? I'm confident something along these lines occurred but I can't recall the specifics?