How will you vote June 12th?

[Teeder11]

...and the trash talking continues. Sorry I don't fully agree with most of you on measure 4. Most other threads I'm calm and collective but the classlessness everyone shows on this thread is terrible.

It goes both ways. (Admittedly, this is the most childish thing I have written in a long time) But, it's safe to say, you started it and brought it all on yourself with your bashing of most of us who love the nickname, are huge fans of the University, but realize when it's time to move on.

[scpa0305]

It goes both ways. (and admittedly, this is the most childish thing I have written in a long time) but, it's safe to say, you started it and brought it all on yourself with your bashing of most of us who love the nickname, are huge fans of the University, but realize when it's time to move on.

Agreed....pretty childish.

[Teeder11]

Agreed....pretty childish.

Sometimes the truth is simple.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Haha, couldn't help myself. Living in the Cities it costs $15 in gas just to get to the grocery store.

The joke doesn't really work when gas in Grand Forks is more expensive than gas in the Twin Cities.

Plus is not just about the $15. Its just as much about the time spent going to the games.

[scpa0305]

The joke doesn't really work when gas in Grand Forks is more expensive than gas in the Twin Cities.

Plus is not just about the $15. Its just as much about the time spent going to the games.

Yes I know that...I was getting to the point that everything is relatively close in GF whereas in the TC everything, for the most part, is far away.

[82SiouxGuy]

Yes I know that...I was getting to the point that everything is relatively close in GF whereas in the TC everything, for the most part, is far away.

And what does that have to do with the nickname issue? Getting around in the Twin Cities is simple and probably a shorter drive than getting around Los Angeles. Does that factor in the conversation?

[FSSD]

I have asked before, why do you believe tha the NCAA will eventually change their mind and let UND off the hook? What do you base this on? Do you have any evidence of this? The NCAA has a history of making decisions on issues like this and following through on these issues.

Yep, they followed through for all of 20 days with the original policy - no NA names. Is that proof enough?

[The Sicatoka]

I saw the NCAA's attorney continually point to a signed settlement agreement with the State of ND in front of Federal Judge Erickson.

That convinced me that the NCAA won't be budging. Well, that, ... and a Federal Judge agreeing with them.

[82SiouxGuy]

Yep, they followed through for all of 20 days with the original policy - no NA names. Is that proof enough?

No. They realized they had a problem and they made a minor adjustment to eliminate the problem. The policy has now been in place for more than 6 years. They accomplished most of what they wanted. They only have 2 outliers. Alcorn State is meaningless to them and doesn't cause them any problems. UND has been a thorn in their side. But they have UND where they want. They have the entire legal system on their side. They hold all the cards with UND. They can leave the sanctions on for the rest of time and it wouldn't hurt the NCAA in any way. Letting UND off the hook would cause huge problems with every school that was forced to change their name or lose their NA imagery. The NCAA isn't going to let that happen. Anyone that can't see that is blind.

[watchmaker49]

No. They realized they had a problem and they made a minor adjustment to eliminate the problem. The policy has now been in place for more than 6 years. They accomplished most of what they wanted. They only have 2 outliers. Alcorn State is meaningless to them and doesn't cause them any problems. UND has been a thorn in their side. But they have UND where they want. They have the entire legal system on their side. They hold all the cards with UND. They can leave the sanctions on for the rest of time and it wouldn't hurt the NCAA in any way. Letting UND off the hook would cause huge problems with every school that was forced to change their name or lose their NA imagery. The NCAA isn't going to let that happen. Anyone that can't see that is blind.

And for how many years were you this person?

[82SiouxGuy]

And for how many years were you this person?

The NCAA didn't get the final card until the deadline on the settlement passed. But I saw that nothing was going to change well before the deadline. I went through the timeline earlier today. But you keep going with your revisionist history.

[FSSD]

No. They realized they had a problem and they made a minor adjustment to eliminate the problem. The policy has now been in place for more than 6 years. They accomplished most of what they wanted.

Let me get this straight the NCAA works with various NA groups/tribes/councils for several years developing the original policy - which was to eliminate all NA names used by NCAA schools. Then in less than a month, the NCAA caves and turns itself into a clearing house for perpetuating and validating the continued use of NA names. They have done nothing to minimize the national media exposure of NA names because the names most associated with the NCAA NA names are still in use. To the general public nothing has changed and things are actually worse because the names have been rationalized. Your minor adjustment and sense of accomplishment sounds like a mess to me and on a national scale it accomplished nothing.

[82SiouxGuy]

Let me get this straight the NCAA works with various NA groups/tribes/councils for several years developing the original policy - which was to eliminate all NA names used by NCAA schools. Then in less than a month, the NCAA caves and turns itself into a clearing house for perpetuating and validating the continued use of NA names. They have done nothing to minimize the national media exposure of NA names because the names most associated with the NCAA NA names are still in use. To the general public nothing has changed and things are actually worse because the names have been rationalized. Your minor adjustment and sense of accomplishment sounds like a mess to me and on a national scale it accomplished nothing.

They got rid of more than a dozen Native American nicknames. They set themselves up to get rid of the rest in the next move. They knew it was going to be messy. When they announced the NA policy they thought they had the Oklahoma Seminole tribes on their side. That was going to be their ace in the hole against Florida State. It turns out they were working with bad information. A tribal lawyer had misrepresented the position of the Oklahoma Seminole tribes. It turns out they weren't against Florida State using the name, and let the NCAA know right after the policy was announced. I've posted links to these stories in the past. The Florida politicians were ready to make a big stink. So the NCAA came up with an appeal process very quickly. They made major strides in their efforts to get rid of Native American nicknames and imagery, they just couldn't finish the job all at one time.

As others have noted, this isn't the end of the NCAA efforts to eliminate NA names. They couldn't get it done in one move so they will finish the job with a second move. The policy got messy, just like they knew it would. But they made big progress and set themselves up to finish the job. Even if UND had gotten approval, it would be temporary. At some point, probably within the next decade or so, all NA nicknames and imagery will be eliminated from the NCAA.

[82SiouxGuy]

A letter to the Grand Forks Herald from a former football player who was also President of the student body at UND, http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238467/group/homepage/, asking that people vote YES on Measure 4 and allow UND to retire the nickname and logo.

[82SiouxGuy]

The latest Grand Forks Herald editorial recommending that North Dakota voters vote YES on Measure 4 and allow UND to retire the nickname and logo, http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238469/group/homepage/.

[darell1976]

I was at Ribfest last night and saw a few people (not me) wearing UND gear, I was talking to my wife's best friend who showed up for the concert (huge Bison fan). I told her to vote yes on Meaure 4, she said she was for 2 reasons...one, she also knows how the name will affect the Athletic program, but the main reason she said was she was tired of hearing about the nickname in lawsuits, and petitions. She just wants it to end. I think that is what most ND's want...an end!! Of course Reed Soderstrom wants to drag it on as long as he gets paid for it. If they poll every ND that votes YES (not just 500 people randomly on a phone, but after they vote) I am sure a big chunk will claim tiring of hearing about the nickname as reason they voted. They beat the issue to death, that should have ended on Nov. 30th 2010.

[Oxbow6]

Voted "Yes" to Measure 4 this morning, but the "Sioux" flag is still waving proudly off the front of our home...and will be until the name is officially retired!

[UNDColorado]

Voted "Yes" to Measure 4 this morning, but the "Sioux" flag is still waving proudly off the front of our home...and will be until the name is officially retired!

Thanks for voting yes, I wish I could have. Just remember that there is no rule or law saying that you can't fly your Sioux flag; I am going to fly mine for the first football game in August even though I would have voted yes.

[scpa0305]

Let me get this straight the NCAA works with various NA groups/tribes/councils for several years developing the original policy - which was to eliminate all NA names used by NCAA schools. Then in less than a month, the NCAA caves and turns itself into a clearing house for perpetuating and validating the continued use of NA names. They have done nothing to minimize the national media exposure of NA names because the names most associated with the NCAA NA names are still in use. To the general public nothing has changed and things are actually worse because the names have been rationalized. Your minor adjustment and sense of accomplishment sounds like a mess to me and on a national scale it accomplished nothing.

Haha....I like this post.

[darell1976]

Voted "Yes" to Measure 4 this morning, but the "Sioux" flag is still waving proudly off the front of our home...and will be until the name is officially retired!

I just got back from voting YES on Measure 4. It was sad to do but I know its the right thing.

[PhillySioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238595/group/homepage/

Thats odd, I thought the point of all this was to let the people speak?

Seems strange that after all this nonsense, the keep the name crowd would then ignore the people? Anything is possible, I guess. Color me surprised.

[Siouxperfan7]

http://www.grandfork...group/homepage/

Thats odd, I thought the point of all this was to let the people speak?

Seems strange that after all this nonsense, the keep the name crowd would then ignore the people? Anything is possible, I guess. Color me surprised.

Exactly. What makes this Sean Johnson think that a constitutional amendment will have different results than this measure. In reality it will have worse results!! If it the YES wins say 57-43. How in the word does he and the committee think that the vote for pretty much the same thing will be swayed by 15-20 points!!

[darell1976]

Exactly. What makes this Sean Johnson think that a constitutional amendment will have different results than this measure. In reality it will have worse results!! If it the YES wins say 57-43. How in the word does he and the committee think that the vote for pretty much the same thing will be swayed by 15-20 points!!

To make him be the hero in saving the Sioux name and logo, just like Al Carlson was out for publicity getting people's hopes up only to have the NCAA laugh in his face.

[Siouxperfan7]

Today is a very bitter sweet day. Today I am voting to have the University of North Dakota retire the Fighting Sioux name and logo to ensure that the state of the UND athletic department will be strong and viable for years to come. But at the same time, I will voting to to retire the name of the teams for the University in which I have cheered for my entire life. As much as I hate to see the name go, I know that retiring it is the right thing to do to ensure the University of North Dakota and its athletic teams can compete at the D1 level free of any santions that will end up harming the the atheltic programs. Deep down I will always be a Fighting Sioux fan. But more importantly I am a University of North Dakota fan First and foremost and I will do what is right for UND. That is why I am voting YES on measure 4 to have UND officially retire the Fighting Sioux name and logo.

[goyotes]

Hopefully today's vote puts an end to this issue.

Will be interesting to see the vote totals for the counties where the Indian Reservations are located. If the totals of those counties are consistent with the total statewide vote to retire the nickname then hopefully all agree to retire the nickname and moveon. However is those counties vote to keep the nickname, then things might get interesting irregardless of the statewide vote.