ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[ScottM]

This notion that the entire state should suffer because of UND's lack of control is completely ridiculous.

UND controlled the legislative processs? Are you stoned? UND, knowing the potential consequences, which we've just seen for the men's hockey team, actively fought against Fargo's rep, Al Carlson's idiotic attempts to gain power for himself. Since the state, vis a vis its legislature and referral process, wants to hang UND with the Sioux moniker, it should suffer the effects as well as the school.

[fightingsioux4life]

Politics is all about rhetoric and posturing. Regardless of whether they would agree with UND's decision to ignore the law, the fact UND didn't respect the legislature's authority would result in a lot of anger, especially in the House. King Al makes the rules there and what he says, goes.

Then I think it's time to put pressure on these people for the upcoming 2012 elections. Make it clearly known that if Legislators support keeping the name and logo at all costs, they will not get your vote. Period. And I think it's time for a recall of "Prime Minister" Al Carlson. He is causing great harm to one of the greatest institutions in North Dakota and he needs to pay the price for it.

[Bison Dan]

Nope this is your mess. It isn't NDSU's or Mary's fault that UND's coaches and alumni have a long established track record of not acting in their own school's best interest.

A few Bison fans may vote for this but they never would have had the chance if it wasn't for UND's very own supporters. Our "representatives" never would have taken it upon themselves if it wasn't for UND's very own supporters.

This notion that the entire state should suffer because of UND's lack of control is completely ridiculous.

Exactly right. It was the insistence of UND supporters (Alumni Assoc.) that kicked this thing out of UND's control (scared of losing donations) out to the SBoHE. Once there it was fair game for the legislature to get involved and all the politics that go with it. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves.

[fightingsioux4life]

Exactly right. It was the insistence of UND supporters (Alumni Assoc.) that kicked this thing out of UND's control (scared of losing donations) out to the SBoHE. Once there it was fair game for the legislature to get involved and all the politics that go with it. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves.

BULL CRAP! Let me make it crystal clear for you, since you support the Ag College in North Dakota. The UND Alumni Association was officially NEUTRAL during the whole nickname debate. I get the Alumni Association magazine and it was explained in there that the Alumni Association didn't want to take a stand on it because the issue was divisive for UND alumni. Tim O'Keefe did come out and say he wish he had spoken out against the nickname law sooner, but that doesn't make the entire institution responsible for what has happened. Individuals e-mailed Legislators and told them to vote for this asinine law. The Legislators, instead of looking at the facts in this case, crapped their pants and voted for it. UND officials are ready and willing to drop the name and logo and move on, but since UND is not a private school, they cannot do whatever they want.

Bottom Line: This whole episode is the fault of "Prime Minister" Al Carlson and his minions in the Legislature (I think one of the most backwater institutions in the United States). The fact that you and other supporters of Ag Tech are supporting and defending him speaks volumes about the true motives of all the UND haters on Bisonville. And it's ugly to listen to.

[Bison Dan]

BULL CRAP! Let me make it crystal clear for you, since you support the Ag College in North Dakota. The UND Alumni Association was officially NEUTRAL during the whole nickname debate. I get the Alumni Association magazine and it was explained in there that the Alumni Association didn't want to take a stand on it because the issue was divisive for UND alumni. Tim O'Keefe did come out and say he wish he had spoken out against the nickname law sooner, but that doesn't make the entire institution responsible for what has happened. Individuals e-mailed Legislators and told them to vote for this asinine law. The Legislators, instead of looking at the facts in this case, crapped their pants and voted for it. UND officials are ready and willing to drop the name and logo and move on, but since UND is not a private school, they cannot do whatever they want.

Bottom Line: This whole episode is the fault of "Prime Minister" Al Carlson and his minions in the Legislature (I think one of the most backwater institutions in the United States). The fact that you and other supporters of Ag Tech are supporting and defending him speaks volumes about the true motives of all the UND haters on Bisonville. And it's ugly to listen to.

Yeah keep sticking your head in the sand and blaming everyone else. What are you 14? Do you really think the SBoHE wanted this hot potato thrown at them? Think what you want but the "powers to be" at UND knew they had to change the name but didn't want any part in doing it and were all too willing to off load it.

[Benny Baker]

UND controlled the legislative processs? Are you stoned? UND, knowing the potential consequences, which we've just seen for the men's hockey team, actively fought against Fargo's rep, Al Carlson's idiotic attempts to gain power for himself. Since the state, vis a vis its legislature and referral process, wants to hang UND with the Sioux moniker, it should suffer the effects as well as the school.

What? The new, unique uniform that everyone was so found of? If we're going to harp on the effect of the NCAA sanctions, UND men's hockey team is always going to be the worst example you can throw out there. Football, women's hockey, etc. face much greater battles.

[watchmaker49]

I wonder what BisonDan and his fellow NDSU fans are going to say when Al starts telling them what to do? Then they will start crying he can't do that. They are not looking at the bigger picture of what is to come if Al and his group get control over higher ed in North Dakota. NDSU fans should be careful what they wish for.

[Benny Baker]

Nope this is your mess. It isn't NDSU's or Mary's fault that UND's coaches and alumni have a long established track record of not acting in their own school's best interest.

A few Bison fans may vote for this but they never would have had the chance if it wasn't for UND's very own supporters. Our "representatives" never would have taken it upon themselves if it wasn't for UND's very own supporters.

This notion that the entire state should suffer because of UND's lack of control is completely ridiculous.

Wow, you've already won the award for the most disingenuous post of the day. So it's UND's fault that a NDSU-grad in Fargo drafted a law naming UND's athletic teams, which was passed by the state's legislature, and then a tribe of Native Americans near Devils Lake initiated a state-wide referendum process to restore the Bison graduate's law.

But if this is what you consider to be an isolated problem for UND, then we agree.

[darell1976]

Yeah keep sticking your head in the sand and blaming everyone else. What are you 14? Do you really think the SBoHE wanted this hot potato thrown at them? Think what you want but the "powers to be" at UND knew they had to change the name but didn't want any part in doing it and were all too willing to off load it.

UND was already transitioning away from the nickname and logo after the November 30, 2010 deadline...remember that's how we got into the Big Sky. Then Bison Al comes into the picture and thinks of a law to screw the NCAA well it backfired and UND is paying the ultimate price. Blame Al not UND.

[The Sicatoka]

Simple questions:

How many people will vote 'yes' just to screw over UND?

How many people will vote 'no' to finally put a wooden stake into the heart of this vampire?

[jodcon]

Simple questions:

How many people will vote 'yes' just to screw over UND?

How many people will vote 'no' to finally put a wooden stake into the heart of this vampire?

Education is going to be the key to this thing, a casual UND fan who watches a few hockey games a year on TV will be inclined to vote yes because it sounds like the vote the University would want...that's the scary part.

[UNDColorado]

I personally don't like the idea of allowing only North Dakota residents decide this because the vast majority have no connection to the University, or even attended a day. All they know is the big bad bully ncaa is telling us what to do; which is true to some extent but there are so many other details that are not at the surface that the average citizen doesn't know. This is so f'ed up.

*before someone comes down on me for not living there: Born, raised, educated in Nodak

[Bison Dan]

UND was already transitioning away from the nickname and logo after the November 30, 2010 deadline...remember that's how we got into the Big Sky. Then Bison Al comes into the picture and thinks of a law to screw the NCAA well it backfired and UND is paying the ultimate price. Blame Al not UND.

You guys are missing the point - it never should have gotten to the SBoHE, so the legislature couldn't interfere. Yes dick head Al got the ball rolling but he had a lot of support by UND grads along the way. Remember the hockey people were fighting this all the way and if they would have accepted the change I highly doubt Al would have gotten involved.

[ScottM]

What? The new, unique uniform that everyone was so found of? If we're going to harp on the effect of the NCAA sanctions, UND men's hockey team is always going to be the worst example you can throw out there. Football, women's hockey, etc. face much greater battles.

Oh, I quite agree with the last sentence. However, the first volley was lobbed in St. Paul. And that was relatively easy with regard to unis, It will become more problematic if/when the sanctions screw up conference planning, tourneys, etc. and UND's sanctions affect other schools too.

[JohnboyND7]

You guys are missing the point - it never should have gotten to the SBoHE, so the legislature couldn't interfere. Yes dick head Al got the ball rolling but he had a lot of support by UND grads along the way. Remember the hockey people were fighting this all the way and if they would have accepted the change I highly doubt Al would have gotten involved.

I'm kinda with Dan on this one. If UND hockeyfans/grads/whathaveyou had taken it on the chin and quit whining, UND wouldn't have been in this position because Al would not have seen an opportunity to grab some power.

All of this trouble over some dumb cartoon and "honored, strong, sacred" nickname. Real sad deal. Too late. UND had its chances to get rid of this mess years ago. Because of this, I am going against my natural instinct to vote against government control, but UND gave me no reason to believe that they could control themselves. For years, they let Ralph Engelstad call the shots. What is to say that another exceptionally wealthy booster won't just hold the school hostage again? Vote yes to save the "Fighting Sioux," because within 5-10 years, it won't be an issue because no one will care about a shell of a division 1 program anymore.

[fightingsioux4life]

You guys are missing the point - it never should have gotten to the SBoHE, so the legislature couldn't interfere. Yes dick head Al got the ball rolling but he had a lot of support by UND grads along the way. Remember the hockey people were fighting this all the way and if they would have accepted the change I highly doubt Al would have gotten involved.

You think "Prime Minister" Al Carlson wouldn't have stuck his nose in this if the SBoHE wasn't the one calling the shots? He would have done it just to feed his ego and possibly set up a run for state-wide office in the future.

[fightingsioux4life]

Yeah keep sticking your head in the sand and blaming everyone else. What are you 14? Do you really think the SBoHE wanted this hot potato thrown at them? Think what you want but the "powers to be" at UND knew they had to change the name but didn't want any part in doing it and were all too willing to off load it.

The truth hurts, doesn't it son?!?! Go back to Bisonville and revel in our problems there; don't pollute this forum with your "it's your own fault" garbage.

[darell1976]

I'm kinda with Dan on this one. If UND hockeyfans/grads/whathaveyou had taken it on the chin and quit whining, UND wouldn't have been in this position because Al would not have seen an opportunity to grab some power.

All of this trouble over some dumb cartoon and "honored, strong, sacred" nickname. Real sad deal. Too late. UND had its chances to get rid of this mess years ago. Because of this, I am going against my natural instinct to vote against government control, but UND gave me no reason to believe that they could control themselves. For years, they let Ralph Engelstad call the shots. What is to say that another exceptionally wealthy booster won't just hold the school hostage again? Vote yes to save the "Fighting Sioux," because within 5-10 years, it won't be an issue because no one will care about a shell of a division 1 program anymore.

UND had the blessing in 2000 with the SL Sioux Nation. Why get rid of it then? There was no nickname policy until 2005 then the state (not UND) sued the NCAA (again the STATE NOT UND) thats when the settlement was made in 2007. Why blame UND?? There was no thought about leaving the NCC back then, no sanctions for the name, no scheduling problems. Ralph Engelstad died before the NCAA came out with that policy. Its sad you are too ignorant to see that its not Ralph's fault in this but the NCAA and its crooked policy. But whatelse would you expect from a Bison fan.

[homer]

You guys are missing the point - it never should have gotten to the SBoHE, so the legislature couldn't interfere. Yes dick head Al got the ball rolling but he had a lot of support by UND grads along the way. Remember the hockey people were fighting this all the way and if they would have accepted the change I highly doubt Al would have gotten involved.

I don't think there is an argument about earlier opportunities to remove the name the current UND leadership was following the agreement that was made with the NCAA and taking action to retire the name. Just like other institutions that a name change has taken place there was a lot of emotion regarding the change. Illinois, Miami or even Dickinson St. changed their names and there was a lot of emotion from alumni and fans were displeased at the time and fought the change. Carlson used this emotional as a pawn in his game to get University control back to the legislature so he can control funding. Him speaking out about his meeting with the NCAA would go a long way in truely letting the people of North Dakota know where the NCAA stands on this but he is not going to do that. He knows they won't budge but without the vote passing, his plan will not be able continue.

In my opinion, his may not be NDSU's issue now and I truely believe that there will also be NDSU fans who vote NO on the issue just to put it to rest. But if Carlson gets his way there will come a time that NDSU will be on the other side of the fence on an issue where Carlson and the legislature has power. It won't be a good feeling.

[82SiouxGuy]

You guys are missing the point - it never should have gotten to the SBoHE, so the legislature couldn't interfere. Yes dick head Al got the ball rolling but he had a lot of support by UND grads along the way. Remember the hockey people were fighting this all the way and if they would have accepted the change I highly doubt Al would have gotten involved.

The SBoHE took the issue away from UND more than a decade ago. And since the SBoHE is superior to the President of UND, they have the ability to do that. The legislature should not be involved in an issue like this. It is part of the operation of the school, which is the responsibility of the SBoHE and the school administration. And not all of the people fighting to save the name are UND grads. Many of us UND grads knew this issue needed to be done at the end of the settlement (if not before). Some of us tried to get legislators to vote against the nickname law. NDSU backer, Al Carlson, has used this issue to build political power and to accomplish unrelated goals. That is his fault. And any NDSU fans that support this issue will feel the negative results at some point in the future.

[homer]

I'm kinda with Dan on this one. If UND hockeyfans/grads/whathaveyou had taken it on the chin and quit whining, UND wouldn't have been in this position because Al would not have seen an opportunity to grab some power.

If the vote passes and Al's plan to gain control of the university system continues I can't wait until NDSU funding gets cut even further. I hope your president and fans just "take it on the chin."

[82SiouxGuy]

If the vote passes and Al's plan to gain control of the university system continues I can't wait until NDSU funding gets cut even further. I hope your president and fans just "take it on the chin."

NDSU fans whine now because they don't believe that NDSU gets fair funding. It will only get worse as Carlson gets more power over the Higher Education system.

[homer]

NDSU fans whine now because they don't believe that NDSU gets fair funding. It will only get worse as Carlson gets more power over the Higher Education system.

All universities will get funding cut. NDSU's been asking for more money but I'm sure the will just "take it on the chin and quit whining" when Carlson gets power. If they only see what Carlson is doing as a nickname issue than so be it I guess.

[jodcon]

Bottom line: The nickname issue was a done deal and Carlson decided to revisit it against the wishes of the University, alum, and majority of fans, and because of his disdain for the SBHE.

His shortsightedness and personal power trip could end up damaging UND for years, and the ironic thing is he doesn't really care...UND is just a pawn towards his end game.

[Bison Dan]

The SBoHE took the issue away from UND more than a decade ago. And since the SBoHE is superior to the President of UND, they have the ability to do that.

Point is why would the SBoHE take this mess on if not asked to by UND officials? You know damn well they were asked to off load the name change as to minimize any damage to the university. Once it was out of UND hands they lost control and now we're at the point we're at.