CMSioux Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 On any given weekend in Grand Forks when both hockey and football are at home more than 30,000 - 32,000 tickets are sold for UND sporting events, 12,000 for hockey x 2 nights and 6,000 -8,000 for football. People only have so much money to spend on entertaininment and many have to choose, and are choosing hockey. Bottom line is that UND sells 30,000 - 32,000 tickets on those weekends. 1
Matt Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 No smack intended for the many respectful SU fans on this board. Those who are not -- if the shoe fits, wear it. Grand Forks is the biggest hockey town in a 150-mile radius. It has a long established history as an NCAA Division I powerhouse in a conference that up until its eventual disbanding will have been equal in relative stature to the SEC of FBS fooball (for all the footballheads out there ). UND plays strong rivals week in and week out in a world class facility. Ocassionally, UND plays Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Boston College, Boston University, Harvard, Yale, Ohio State, etc. With all that, it still amazes me that the Grand Forks' market can draw 12,000 people consistently night after night. But again, we are drawing from Bismarck, Minot, Devils Lake, Thief River Falls, Crookston, Canada and FARGO and all point in between -- not just Grand Forks County. There is no competition in the area for elite college hockey. UND hockey has a statewide, regional and even national following. That is not the case for FCS football in North Dakota. It is much more parochialized and divided as far as allegiences go. So all that said, I, too, am somewhat underwhelmed by attendance claims down south given the context of the size of the potential fanbase, the fact that they are not in a transitional conference and the fact that they are actually playing competitive teams for real hardware. Statistically, the population of Cass/Clay counties alone should support 20k imho. I'd be interested to see what ndsu's internal potential attendance projections look like.
Matt Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Your right there's nothing to compare. I didn't start the smack but your pop. count is flawed - look at Neb. and a host of other DI fb teams that have small pop. centers. Besides if we had a 25,000 seat venue who knows after this year. How is the population count flawed? It's census data. Despite a small population, communites like Missoula and, to your example-Lincoln, overwhelmingly support their team. Why Fargo doesn't keep up is something the ndsu marketing department must figure out.
siouxu31 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 2011 Grand Forks metropolitan population = 96,931 2007 Fargo metropolitan population = 192,417 NDSU attendance through transition years 2004-2007 2004 - 79,614 - 6 home games 2005 - 84,962 - 6 home games 2006 - 81,886 - 5 home games 2007 - 90,707 - 5 home games Total = 337,169 - 22 home games = 15,236/game Average percentage of Fargo metropolitan population attending (Based on 2007 metro pop.) = 15,236/192,417 = 7.96% UND attendance through transition years 2008-2011 2008 - 50,837 - 5 home games 2009 - 42,696 - 5 home games 2010 - 40,771 - 5 home games 2011 - 47,045 - 6 home games Total = 181,349 - 21 home games = 8,636/game Average percentage of Grand Forks metropolitan population attending (Based on 2011 metro pop.) = 8,636/96,931 = 8.91% 1
Bison Dan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 How is the population count flawed? It's census data. Despite a small population, communites like Missoula and, to your example-Lincoln, overwhelmingly support their team. Why Fargo doesn't keep up is something the ndsu marketing department must figure out. Didn't mean the census data was wrong just the reasoning. Look at Neb and other DI schools that get 70 to 80 thousand that are from smaller pop. centers. Look at your hockey - You can't have it both ways. Large pop. centers do not guarantee good crowds. It's mostly about the team.
Matt Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Didn't mean the census data was wrong just the reasoning. Look at Neb and other DI schools that get 70 to 80 thousand that are from smaller pop. centers. Look at your hockey - You can't have it both ways. Large pop. centers do not guarantee good crowds. It's mostly about the team. Both ways? Lincoln is a statistical anomaly, like Green Bay, and you could argue GF for hockey. Missoula isn't delivering Lincoln numbers. They are delivering what, roughly 25% of their county population? It's not like Fargo is a small community struggling to fill a stadium that's too big. Fargo just isn't keeping keeping up with a peer like Missoula. Again, that's a problem for ndsu to figure out. 1
UNDColorado Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 UND's marketing department also needs to figure out this issue. We need to start averaging at least 10k / game before I start questioning NDSU's attendance issues/projections. 1
Teeder11 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Didn't mean the census data was wrong just the reasoning. Look at Neb and other DI schools that get 70 to 80 thousand that are from smaller pop. centers. Look at your hockey - You can't have it both ways. Large pop. centers do not guarantee good crowds. It's mostly about the team. The point about hockey is that there is no competition in the area for it, so UND draws well. In North Dakota, football allegiences are split statewide and regionwide. If North Dakota (with a population 680,000) were like Minnesota (with its population 5-6 million) and had only one Division I football program, I could see either UND or NDSU, which ever it would be, draw 30,000-40,000 per game relative to the state population. But that's just not reality.
Teeder11 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Guess we'll just have to settle it on the field someday so we don't have to extrapolate and blow our stack on these statsistical and sometimes hypothetical comparisons that mean jack sh#t at the end of the day. I say, here we come. We are North Dakota! Bring it!
Bison Dan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Both ways? Lincoln is a statistical anomaly, like Green Bay, and you could argue GF for hockey. Missoula isn't delivering Lincoln numbers. They are delivering what, roughly 25% of their county population? It's not like Fargo is a small community struggling to fill a stadium that's too big. Fargo just isn't keeping keeping up with a peer like Missoula. Again, that's a problem for ndsu to figure out. WOW you're not very bright are you? We've had how many sell outs? Hard to get more people in isn't it? If I was you I'd worry about your own team and attendance.
Hambone Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Well, there goes my attempt at a football thread that doesn't turn into a Bison/Sioux pissing contest..... Focus people.....
Matt Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 WOW you're not very bright are you? We've had how many sell outs? Hard to get more people in isn't it? If I was you I'd worry about your own team and attendance. I heard that same "sellout" and "near sellout" crap last year too, and yet the 2010 average was less than 16k. I've also been around long enough to remember the "20,000 on the Tenth!" media campaign in the late 80s at Dakota Field. Only to have ndsu officials come out and say they didn't actually count seats Dakota Field. So, you'll forgive me if I don't believe one damn word of that "sellout" s**t. When the NCAA releases the 2011 numbers, then I'll give credit for making progress. 1
Bison Dan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I heard that same "sellout" and "near sellout" crap last year too, and yet the 2010 average was less than 16k. I've also been around long enough to remember the "20,000 on the Tenth!" media campaign in the late 80s at Dakota Field. Only to have ndsu officials come out and say they didn't actually count seats Dakota Field. So, you'll forgive me if I don't believe one damn word of that "sellout" s**t. When the NCAA releases the 2011 numbers, then I'll give credit for making progress. That's big of you since they use our attendance numbers.
Johnny Five Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Well, there goes my attempt at a football thread that doesn't turn into a Bison/Sioux pissing contest..... Focus people..... ^^^this^^^
siouxu31 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 If we are fortunate enough for the bison to implode at home, like they did against a 7-5 youngstown state team, I am guessing that a few of our friends on this board are going to go M.I.A. for a few months. Maybe I am wrong and they will want to talk about the loss, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that we won't hear from folks like bison Dan.
WYOBISONMAN Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 2011 Grand Forks metropolitan population = 96,931 2007 Fargo metropolitan population = 192,417 NDSU attendance through transition years 2004-2007 2004 - 79,614 - 6 home games 2005 - 84,962 - 6 home games 2006 - 81,886 - 5 home games 2007 - 90,707 - 5 home games Total = 337,169 - 22 home games = 15,236/game Average percentage of Fargo metropolitan population attending (Based on 2007 metro pop.) = 15,236/192,417 = 7.96% UND attendance through transition years 2008-2011 2008 - 50,837 - 5 home games 2009 - 42,696 - 5 home games 2010 - 40,771 - 5 home games 2011 - 47,045 - 6 home games Total = 181,349 - 21 home games = 8,636/game Average percentage of Grand Forks metropolitan population attending (Based on 2011 metro pop.) = 8,636/96,931 = 8.91% So you come up with BS like this to try and justify the fact that UND has attendance that is terrible? Bottom line.....you are stupid if you attempt to show that UND has a stronger football following than NDSU. Further.....why be an ass and derail this thread from the discussion of the playoffs. That is what we are talking about. Good god.....this is not about UND attendance. If UND starts winning.....looking at a playoff spot.....attendance will rise. But......this is NOT the thread for this discussion.
Cratter Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Season would be over for both teams. Probably wouldn't be much left to talk about.
dakotadan Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 UND fans have absolutely no leg to stand on when trying to debate football attendance numbers. So how about we focus on discussing the playoffs.
Cratter Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 So you come up with BS like this to try and justify the fact that UND has attendance that is terrible? Bottom line.....you are stupid if you attempt to show that UND has a stronger football following than NDSU. Further.....why be an ass and derail this thread from the discussion of the playoffs. That is what we are talking about. Good god.....this is not about UND attendance. If UND starts winning.....looking at a playoff spot.....attendance will rise. But......this is NOT the thread for this discussion. Lots of hostility in that post. Are you mad GF supports their teams better ths Fargo? Despite it being NDSU's #1 sport to UND's #2? I know NDSU has to compete against Concordia and MSUM. ha ha ha 1
Johnny Five Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 If we are fortunate enough for the bison to implode at home, like they did against a 7-5 youngstown state team, I am guessing that a few of our friends on this board are going to go M.I.A. for a few months. Maybe I am wrong and they will want to talk about the loss, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that we won't hear from folks like bison Dan. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you, but whenever the Bison may fall I will return. Speaking of, wide receiver Zach Vraa was set to return for the Bison after being out since game 1 with a broken collarbone. 1st practice back he re breaks it. I feel bad for the poor kid, it is his third break in two season and second this year. Just a reminder that the JMU vs EKU game is on ESPNU Saturday morning at 11. So if you are laying around you can watch whichever team you guys will be rooting for in the Fargodome...haha....Happy Thanksgiving.
bisoninnwmn Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Lots of hostility in that post. Are you mad GF supports their teams better ths Fargo? Despite it being NDSU's #1 sport to UND's #2? I know NDSU has to compete against Concordia and MSUM. ha ha ha Those attendance figures indicate that UNDs attendance has fallen throughout their transistion and only is higher this year because of a 6th game. 7800 ave this year in a 13K seat stadium......60% turnout this year. The Big Sky will probably improve those #s...but how much?
Oxbow6 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 UND fans have absolutely no leg to stand on when trying to debate football attendance numbers. So how about we focus on discussing the playoffs. Agree...I was at all those Winona playoff games. Embarrassing attendance. Saw NDSU play a couple time this year. Jensen is no doubt the key offensively from here on out. IF he plays well, SU will score lots of points. Defensively IMO stopping the run is their key to success. If teams have to throw, that seconday (if healthy) will take over the game defensively. I despise NDSU, but I'm a ND boy thru and thru so success from here on out for the AC FB team is good by me if it helps some out there realize ND isn't part of Canada. GO PACK GO!
bisoninnwmn Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Agree...I was at all those Winona playoff games. Embarrassing attendance. Saw NDSU play a couple time this year. Jensen is no doubt the key offensively from here on out. IF he plays well, SU will score lots of points. Defensively IMO stopping the run is their key to success. If teams have to throw, that seconday (if healthy) will take over the game defensively. I despise NDSU, but I'm a ND boy thru and thru so success from here on out for the AC FB team is good by me if it helps some out there realize ND isn't part of Canada. GO PACK GO! An extra week of rest will help Jensen's turf toe for sure....how much?? Getting Drevlow back at DT will help with the running game. Hopefully the coaches use Ojuri more at RB....he is a more powerful runner compared to DJ and doesn't dance around like DJ does.
darell1976 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 I think a key to attendance is winning. I remember in the 80's and early to mid 90's you can walk up to either Memorial Stadium, and the REA and a get a good seat. Because the teams were not winning. Between 1987 and 1997 UND was not the best on the ice. Also before 1993 UND was average til 1990 and horrible before then. The only sellout was either the Potato Bowl or the UND-NDSU game. It all about the "W". UND had that this year however the home schedule was pathetic. Only USD, Cal Poly and Drake as our home FCS teams, and if you look at attendace just of those games 7400 vs USD, 9930 vs CP, and 8484 vs Drake for an average of 8604. That is the only attendance that matters to me. Once those DII/NAIA teams are replaced with FCS teams attendance will rise, one we are playing for an AQ into the playoffs attendance will rise, and once marketing realizes that UND has football...attendance will rise. UND is battling hockey for attendance...NDSU is battling nobody for attendance. There is nothing else in Fargo but NDSU basketball (that doesn't have a home game the same day as football this season), and the Fargo Force (no contest). Also $$$ is a big thing too. Maybe to boost attendance is pay full price for football and get a discount on a hockey game or vice versa...not pay only $2 for a women's hockey game like at the USD game. Or maybe a football/hockey package where you pay 1 price for 2 events. Anything is better than nothing.
Bison Dan Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Agree...I was at all those Winona playoff games. Embarrassing attendance. Saw NDSU play a couple time this year. Jensen is no doubt the key offensively from here on out. IF he plays well, SU will score lots of points. Defensively IMO stopping the run is their key to success. If teams have to throw, that seconday (if healthy) will take over the game defensively. I despise NDSU, but I'm a ND boy thru and thru so success from here on out for the AC FB team is good by me if it helps some out there realize ND isn't part of Canada. GO PACK GO! I agree 100% that Jensen has to play well. Turf toe I hear is a bitch to play on. If you look at the playoff field most every team has a stud qb that makes the team go. At this level I think the qb is the most important piece of the team.
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