What Needs to Happen

[PhillySioux]

This is an terribly important time for the UNIVERSITY as a whole. It may very well be that some folks who scream the loudest about the nickname are those who care only about the sports teams/program and little about the UNIVERSITY as a whole. This type of view has been described in this thread.

I say to those that care about the sports programs only..........your role as a stakeholder in this process is no longer of importance. The issue has expanded beyond sports. Your rhetoric is no longer useful...........STEP ASIDE.

If you believe fighting tooth and nail to keep the nickname is in the best interests of the UNIVERSITY as a whole, by all means, participate in the discussion.

[Matt]

That sounds logical enough for those who received a degree from UND, but it does not apply to those of us who did not attend the school but are fans of the Sioux hockey/football teams. Surely you aren't naive enough to think that the only people who cheer for any particular college sports team are alums of the school, are you? Newsflash, non-alums are sports fans too.

And surely you are not naive enough to think an alum will give your opinion the same consideration as a fellow alum?

[Chewey]

That sounds logical enough for those who received a degree from UND, but it does not apply to those of us who did not attend the school but are fans of the Sioux hockey/football teams. Surely you aren't naive enough to think that the only people who cheer for any particular college sports team are alums of the school, are you? Newsflash, non-alums are sports fans too.

I get it. I will cheer for UND regardless of the nickname because I went there for grad schools and I am from there - well, Western ND anyway. I agree that the history and tradition and identity would be ripped away and there would be a huge void there that would take a lot of the lustre away from the athletic program. The Four Horsemen would not have the same meaning if Notre Dame changed its name to the Fighting French (oxymoron, I know -- I am of French decent for anyone looking to throw out PC "thou shalt not" barbs). The "Purple People Eaters" would not have the same relevance if the Vikings changed their name to the "Blossoms." The "Orange Crush" would not have the same ring if the Broncos changed their name. Indeed, they were stupid to change their uniforms to blue and the "Orange Crush" certainly has less meaning because of that, in my opinion. Riddle me this: How in the hell are Kelley and the other geniuses supposed to accord due respect and relevance to the "Fighting Sioux" past -- ostensibly to make everyone feel better -- when the whole name and moniker are so "offensive" and "hostile and abusive"? If giving the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo history such "respect" and "acknowledgment" is such a noble and important thing, shouldn't we just be able to retain them? What's wrong with retaining them? This is only one example of how haphazard and illogical this whole "debate" is. This only makes sense in the encrusted and decaying asylum that is the mind of some "academician" who has probably been bored and lacking mental stimulation to the point of suicide for the past 20 years. In the marketplace of ideas (gosh, aren't universities supposed to be a part of that marketplace?) such childish reasoning would last twenty seconds and then the few people parroting it would be told to go associate with the other freaks in "that corner over there." It's sheer agenda. It's sheer ideology. But, the powers that be have the authority to ram it down on everyone, whether they like it or not, and they have eager propagandists (See Grand Forks Herald) willing ignore facts or impute their own facts to justify it and rose color it for them. Hmmm, where have we seen that sort of hubris before?

[soohockey15]

Simple answer to a simple question : YES!!!

To further elaborate on this thought with some hypothetical scenarios...

My favorite NHL team is the Pittsburgh Penguins. If they moved to a different city and kept the Penguins name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Pittsburgh and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

My favorite MLB team is the Minnesota Twins. If they moved to a different city and kept the Twins name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Minnesota and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

My favorite NFL team is the Green Bay Packers. If they moved to a different city and kept the Packers name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Green Bay and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

See a trend? Geography does not dictate who I cheer for. I don't cheer for Pittsburgh, I cheer for the Penguins. I don't cheer for Minnesota, I cheer for the Twins. I don't cheer for Green Bay, I cheer for the Packers. I don't cheer for UND, I cheer for the Sioux. That is why I am taking this so hard. My favorite team that I have followed since I was a little boy would cease to exist if this thing plays out the way people are saying it will. I don't expect everybody to feel the same way that I do, as we are all different individuals with different emotions. However, all I ask is that you respect the fact that my feelings are what they are and don't try to tell me I'm "wrong" to feel that way.

[lakessioux]

Bizarro world?? When did you become Mr. Feelings? Wah wah wah respect my feelings.

Simple answer to a simple question : YES!!!

To further elaborate on this thought with some hypothetical scenarios...

My favorite NHL team is the Pittsburgh Penguins. If they moved to a different city and kept the Penguins name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Pittsburgh and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

My favorite MLB team is the Minnesota Twins. If they moved to a different city and kept the Twins name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Minnesota and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

My favorite NFL team is the Green Bay Packers. If they moved to a different city and kept the Packers name I would still be a fan, but if they stayed in Green Bay and changed the name I would no longer follow them.

See a trend? Geography does not dictate who I cheer for. I don't cheer for Pittsburgh, I cheer for the Penguins. I don't cheer for Minnesota, I cheer for the Twins. I don't cheer for Green Bay, I cheer for the Packers. I don't cheer for UND, I cheer for the Sioux. That is why I am taking this so hard. My favorite team that I have followed since I was a little boy would cease to exist if this thing plays out the way people are saying it will. I don't expect everybody to feel the same way that I do, as we are all different individuals with different emotions. However, all I ask is that you respect the fact that my feelings are what they are and don't try to tell me I'm "wrong" to feel that way.

[siouxfaninseattle]

There is no one on this board that would like to see UND continue to use the Fighting Sioux name more than me. But certainly it looks like it will do more harm than good to continue the fight to keep the name. UND must get admission to a good conference, and admission to the Big Sky will not happen unless the nickname issue is resolved. UND made a settlement with the NC$$ and I don't see a way around it. We can continue to use the nickname and be denied admission to any conference, and soon see the ramifications in the hockey program. Whatever it takes, let's get it behind us and move forward.

[JackJD]

This is an terribly important time for the UNIVERSITY as a whole. It may very well be that some folks who scream the loudest about the nickname are those who care only about the sports teams/program and little about the UNIVERSITY as a whole. This type of view has been described in this thread.

I say to those that care about the sports programs only..........your role as a stakeholder in this process is no longer of importance. The issue has expanded beyond sports. Your rhetoric is no longer useful...........STEP ASIDE.

If you believe fighting tooth and nail to keep the nickname is in the best interests of the UNIVERSITY as a whole, by all means, participate in the discussion.

The above makes very good sense.

[Chewey]

This is an terribly important time for the UNIVERSITY as a whole. It may very well be that some folks who scream the loudest about the nickname are those who care only about the sports teams/program and little about the UNIVERSITY as a whole. This type of view has been described in this thread.

I say to those that care about the sports programs only..........your role as a stakeholder in this process is no longer of importance. The issue has expanded beyond sports. Your rhetoric is no longer useful...........STEP ASIDE.

If you believe fighting tooth and nail to keep the nickname is in the best interests of the UNIVERSITY as a whole, by all means, participate in the discussion.

The ones who have screamed about the nickname the loudest could not give two $#!+s about either the sports teams or the university. The few jackals at UND in the English department and like dens of desperation and those protesters for hire bused in from St. Cloud State, etc. could care less. So these people sow mayhem and then lecture everyone else about how they should just deal with it and subordinate themselves to it "for the good of UND athletics" and "for the good of the UNIVERSITY"? This is twisted. None of this has ever been for the good of UND sports or the university. If the welfare of UND sports and the university were truly in focus, none of this would have come about. The issue you're expressing is only this, nothing more and nothing less: Keep the nickname and allow UND sports to fail or abandon the nickname and allow UND sports to function. The second you tie this to what is good for the university, you lose the correct focus and drift off unintentionally into equivocation-land and justification-land and double-speak land. Getting rid of the nickname is not good for UND athletics or the university generally. Rather, getting rid of the nickname is necessary to save UND athletics from oblivion - the course that was set in motion by some very destructive, self-absorbed and narcissistic and racist elements right there on the UND campus. Whatever the result, I would caution against surrendering and compromising the sanctity of your reason and powers of logic by according any legitimacy to any of that utter sophistry.

[yababy8]

O

I'm sorry but I just have to ask this simple question Dave, do you like the name more than the university itself?

I am not Dave but I did leave my home and my family when I was no more than a boy to go to school at UND. It is then that I was introduced to the amazing, unique and awesome world that is Sioux Hockey. I appreciated and cheered for other sports as well. I watched kliensasser play football, I watched Vonish break Phil Jackson's scoring record.

I got married as a student there. I took my first born child home from the hospital to married housing. I have been a Sioux fan for more than 20 years.

So with all of these credentials in my pocket, I will answer the question at hand by saying this;

I love the Sioux name as it represents definitively the stunning tradition and true excellence that is the history of the UND hockey program.

UND is to college hockey as Notre Dame is to football. And UND is identified by the Sioux name not by UND.

Given this truth my answer is simple.

I love the Sioux name and if the university, including my fellow alumni as well as current students and staff collectively allow these faciest forces to destroy decades and decades worth of fought and earned valor and tradition without more of fight than has currently been fought, I will sadly lose much respect for my university.

That is the plain and simple truth.

[IrishSiouxFan]

O

I am not Dave but I did leave my home and my family when I was no more than a boy to go to school at UND. It is then that I was introduced to the amazing, unique and awesome world that is Sioux Hockey. I appreciated and cheered for other sports as well. I watched kliensasser play football, I watched Vonish break Phil Jackson's scoring record.

I got married as a student there. I took my first born child home from the hospital to married housing. I have been a Sioux fan for more than 20 years.

So with all of these credentials in my pocket, I will answer the question at hand by saying this;

I love the Sioux name as it represents definitively the stunning tradition and true excellence that is the history of the UND hockey program.

UND is to college hockey as Notre Dame is to football. And UND is identified by the Sioux name not by UND.

Given this truth my answer is simple.

I love the Sioux name and if the university, including my fellow alumni as well as current students and staff collectively allow these faciest forces to destroy decades and decades worth of fought and earned valor and tradition without more of fight than has currently been fought, I will sadly lose much respect for my university.

That is the plain and simple truth.

[IrishSiouxFan]

We all love the Fighting Sioux hockey traditions, and no one here wants to see them retired. But the simple truth is that the fate of the Fighting Sioux nickname does not lay in the hands of the UND administration or the North Dakota legislatures, it is up to Standing Rock to save the name, it is the only thing that can save it now. Our only other option is to keep it and jeopardize admission into the BSC, if we are denied admission into the BSC, NDSU will ultimately become the premier athletic program in the state of North Dakota and that s something I cannot stomach happening. I am not only a fan of UND athletics I am also a future alumni and it is in my best interest that UND have a strong athletic reputation to compliment it's strong academic reputation. I hate that this is happening, but it is, time to move toward the future and be good shepherds of our school.

[The Sicatoka]

That sounds logical enough for those who received a degree from UND, but it does not apply to those of us who did not attend the school but are fans of the Sioux hockey/football teams. Surely you aren't naive enough to think that the only people who cheer for any particular college sports team are alums of the school, are you? Newsflash, non-alums are sports fans too.

So, in reality, you're looking for an excuse to become a full-time Minnesota fan.

Buh-bye.

See ya.

[ScottM]

And UND is identified by the Sioux name not by UND.

Given this truth my answer is simple.

I love the Sioux name and if the university, including my fellow alumni as well as current students and staff collectively allow these faciest forces to destroy decades and decades worth of fought and earned valor and tradition without more of fight than has currently been fought, I will sadly lose much respect for my university.

That is the plain and simple truth.

If you think the accomplishments and traditions of generations of student-athletes had anything to do with the name/logo, you are sadly mistaken. They may have worn "Sioux" on their jersey, sweater, etc., but there is no mystical connection between that name and what they did on the ice, field or court. Somehow you seem to imply that dropping the name/logo would diminish the victories and titles won by the athletes. If your "love" of the Sioux name/logo colors your feelings about the school, its athletes and alumni, I feel sorry for anybody who would consider you a "friend".

[Ole in MSP]

O

I am not Dave but I did leave my home and my family when I was no more than a boy to go to school at UND. It is then that I was introduced to the amazing, unique and awesome world that is Sioux Hockey. I appreciated and cheered for other sports as well. I watched kliensasser play football, I watched Vonish break Phil Jackson's scoring record.

I got married as a student there. I took my first born child home from the hospital to married housing. I have been a Sioux fan for more than 20 years.

So with all of these credentials in my pocket, I will answer the question at hand by saying this;

I love the Sioux name as it represents definitively the stunning tradition and true excellence that is the history of the UND hockey program.

UND is to college hockey as Notre Dame is to football. And UND is identified by the Sioux name not by UND.

Given this truth my answer is simple.

I love the Sioux name and if the university, including my fellow alumni as well as current students and staff collectively allow these faciest forces to destroy decades and decades worth of fought and earned valor and tradition without more of fight than has currently been fought, I will sadly lose much respect for my university.

That is the plain and simple truth.

I am an alum, grew up 7 blocks from UND, lived and died Sioux sports for over 60 years, and I feel terribly sorry for you and your attitude. Obviously your priorities are in the wrong place. The name is not bigger than the University nor the thousands of alums who have attended UND. UND may be the Notre Dame of college hockey, but that can be argued by several schools around the country. It is admirable what a smaller midwestern university has done in the hockey world, but it is far more notable as to what UND graduates have done outside of the world of sports. Please understand the risk that UND is under by not dropping the Sioux name. It could take decades to recover.

[CMSioux]

The politically correct have won the battle, the sick feeling in my stomach is knowing that scrubbing the name from the school is just the beginning of politically correct madness taking over. I will continue to support the school, support the teams, buy my tickets, make my donation. But I will never wear any colors or any name that is not Fighting Sioux or Fighting Sioux colors.

[GeauxSioux]

Kelley: Overturn UND Nickname Law

The president of the University of North Dakota says it's time. Robert Kelley says he believes the legislature must overturn the law and retire the Sioux nickname and logo.

Kelley says the issue should be considered during a November special session when lawmakers will look at legislative redistricting.

Kelley made the comment on KFGO

[fgoSioux]

I like Hak, a lot. I think he's a great coach, but UND has an elite college hockey program and he can be replaced. If he can't get in line with what's in the best interest of the entire school, he needs to go.

Man, there are a lot of spineless jellyfish on this board all of a sudden.

Thank god for Coach's/leaders like Hak!!

Amazing how everyone was so happy about the legislation and because of a threat by the BSC we turn tail and run

I for one want to always be the Fighting Sioux!!!

[fgoSioux]

No that is not what it means, so you only care about football and basketball? No it means, sometimes you have to stand up and fight for what is right. If the NCAA really gave a crap about Native American names then big schools like Florida State and Utah would be transitioning to a new name too, bu this is a power play by the NCAA to push a small school around in a small state just because they think they can. I cheer for all UND sports and I hope they do well. But someone has to stand up and say enough is enough.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!

Great post!!!!!!!!!

[The Sicatoka]

There comes a point where the battle is lost and you must keep your resources for battles you can win.

The NCAA came up with a policy.

They had Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa in their camp from the start.

They got to the Summit.

They got to the BSC.

They've made it clear they'll get to anyone else they need to.

It's their game; it's their party; arbitrary and caprecious or not, that's the way it is.

For some reason UND got onto their radar as someone that had to be knocked down. (I suspect it is related to Ralph Engelstad Arena.)

They think they've won.

So now we control what is still ours to control, and that is the best revenge, namely, coming out of this stronger than ever.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Kelley: Overturn UND Nickname Law

http://www.kfgo.com/uploads/KELLY%20NAME_1.mp3

The right move for UND and the right move for North Dakota. This whole thing is much bigger than the hockey team.

[darell1976]

There comes a point where the battle is lost and you must keep your resources for battles you can win.

The NCAA came up with a policy.

They had Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa in their camp from the start.

They got to the Summit.

They got to the BSC.

They've made it clear they'll get to anyone else they need to.

It's their game; it's their party; arbitrary and caprecious or not, that's the way it is.

For some reason UND got onto their radar as someone that had to be knocked down. (I suspect it is related to Ralph Engelstad Arena.)

They think they've won.

So now we control what is still ours to control, and that is the best revenge, namely, coming out of this stronger than ever.

Just because UND won't be named the Fighting Sioux doesn't mean we should forget the name. We can still go to games with our Sioux gear. Say "land of the free and home of the Sioux"...You can still be a "Sioux" fan and also a UND fan by cheering the team that is playing its heart out for the University and its fans. They (athletics) need our support. Yes its a rotten deal we were dealt but lets keep our heads up and go onto that field (court, ice) and win!!! Lets show that other North Dakota school that we will never die!!! FIGHT ON NORTH DAKOTA!!!!!

[WYOBISONMAN]

We can still go to games with our Sioux gear. Say "land of the free and home of the Sioux"...You can still be a "Sioux" fan and also a UND fan by cheering the team that is playing its heart out for the University and its fans.

Freedom of expression. I would doubt they would ever try and prohibit fans from wearing Sioux gear at a game......and if they tried it surely would be unconstitutional.

[Goon]

Freedom of expression. I would doubt they would ever try and prohibit fans from wearing Sioux gear at a game......and if they tried it surely would be unconstitutional.

Yeah I dare someone to tell me that I can't wear my Sioux jersey to the games. It won't happen.

[star2city]

Herald Link to Kelley's Statements on KFGO

Considering that Kelley's administration almost certainly helped orchestrate the NCAA statement, should anyone be surprised that Kelley was "not surprised."

[Teeder11]

Herald Link to Kelley's Statements on KFGO

Considering that Kelley's administration almost certainly helped orchestrate the NCAA statement, should anyone be surprised that Kelley was "not surprised."

^^^^